Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,022
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,022
LL,

I think you need to make a blanket statement to her...no room for interuptions, you tell her you need to say something....


LL: " this situation needn't be going this way....we both need to stop and hit re-set.....

I love you so very much, but I can no longer allow you to abuse and take advantage of me....

If you want to have a hope in ****** of me helping you out any further.....you will get your 16 year old butt back home where it belongs and we'll go from there...

(then using language she 'hears'.. you say')

*D's name*....we need to get our [censored] together on this..."



then you hang up...



then you say a prayer that she will examine the choices before her, and she will make one that helps, rather than harms her.....


I cannot believe how much control the child has right now...and how manipulated by her you are....there are other roads besides caving in and reacting from an emotional place where you need to have a plan, instead.....you need to explore these instead of allowing yourself to be blackmailed....you are setting up a pattern for her using and abusing you for the rest of your life...

stop it now.

put your foot down.


Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.
~~Buddha
soulloss #1583748 02/20/06 08:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
The nightmare has taken a new twist. My daughter called last night in tears in the wee hours needing to talk to me. Apparently some girl that her boyfriend slept with about 6 months ago found out she has HIV.

I tried to stay calm on the phone and tell her that he needed to be tested, and that a little reassurance for her was that it's harder to transmit from a woman to a man (ie., the girl may not have given it to him). She was using someone else's phone and had to let me go. I tried to call her back a few minutes later but the owner of the phone said she was outside and they'd have her call me when she returned. She never did.

Then it hit me...it may well be HIM who has HIV who is transmitting it to the women. I heard he has an extensive history with women and warned my daughter countless times when she first was hanging around with him last fall.

What if in addition to being pregnant, my baby girl has HIV?? No matter how much I've prayed for her, every nightmare I ever imagined either has come true or looks like it could come true.

I have no way of contacting her. I can't force him to be tested. I can't get her to come home so that she can be tested--not that it would matter as it could be too soon for it to show up in her. And he's treating her like dirt and telling her she's worthless because she has no job, and I begged her last night to let me come bring her home, but she doesn't want to come because she doesn't want to leave him.

I am somewhere between anger and numb and just sick. I wanted so much to love my daughter and protect her, and this is the end result of my parenting. If you ever want to know what it feels like to be the biggest dismal failure at life, read my posts.

LL

lordslady #1583749 02/20/06 08:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
BB,

I didn't get email. Must have changed my address. If you want to resend, try "lordschild65@yahoo.com".

lordslady #1583750 02/20/06 09:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,956
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,956
ll,

I have watched this thread play out but I have not responded...until now.

I wouldn't get all in a tizzy about this little piece of news...I say "little" because I feel that your daughter is a master of drama. She can reel you in with that quicker than anything.

I wouldn't worry...I would offer to take her to get tested if SHE wishes. Other than that you are going to have to refrain from stoking her drama flame. I liken it to threatening suicide if you won't do what she wants you to do.

HIPAA isn't going to allow for you to check anything in regards to her health...her boyfriend's health...or ANTHING medically related. She can throw it at you, but I suggest you give it right back to her.

So...what do you think you need to do...is what I would offer to her. Then whatever she says...back it with action. If she wants you to take her to get tested, do it. If she tells you not to worry, that she will take care of it, okey dokey.

She jerks your chain...she really does.

That's just my opinion...

committed

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
This wasn't jerking my chain. She was near hysterics. She was calling looking for me to allay her fears.

When I get a call with her in tears, her voice shaking, and her saying "Mom, I need to talk to you about something...", I know it's serious.

And if my 2nd theory is correct and HE gave the other girl HIV, and HE has been sleeping with my daughter without protection (which is obviously the case), then there is a high likelihood that she may have also been infected. And she's pregnant.

She didn't tell me not to worry. She knows I'm worried and I know she's worried. I was trying to help calm her down, but that was before I realized that the HIV probably came from her boyfriend to the other girl. HIV is uncommon in Iowa which is why that hadn't been my first fear for my daughter, until last night when it hit me that her boyfriend has lived all over the country for the last few years, in places like NY and Boston. His risks, given his lifestyle, are MUCH higher.

There are few things on my "nightmare" list for my children that are higher than HIV. Death is the only one I can think of.

LL

lordslady #1583752 02/20/06 12:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,277
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,277
Is it possible that this HIV concern could be the catalyst for your daughter to go to a pro-life clinic? Many do free testing of ALL kinds, and I know that would be your first choice for counseling. Did you ever call one to get information for yourself (as the mother of a pregnant teen)? If not, you may want to do so, and have their info handy for the next time your daughter calls.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,289
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,289
I hesitated to respond again, since you totally brushed past my last post. But, I came back to say this...

It's not difficult to see how a child who has been rejected by a selfish self centered mother can reject her own child through abortion. It amazes me that after all this - you are STILL more concerned about how this is going to affect YOU than how it affects your daughter? How did you manage to survive 9 months of pregnancy with this child? Or better yet.. How did SHE manage to survive it?

The girl is 16 years old - and you have no way of contacting her?

I hope she's at least listed as missing by the local police department?


A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,078
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,078
LL,

pull up your old posts and read what I wrote to you when your daughter was 14. I am a pediatrician, I have worked with adolescents, and I predicted back then all the things that have happened now. Your daughter has dropped out of school, she is using drugs, she is pregnant, she may have AIDS.

I told you years ago that all this will happen, if you do not radically change your approach. You need to set boundaries and limits. No more wavering and excuses. You need to change yourself first, LL. You give your daughter the impression that everything she does is tolerated by you. Wrong! You have spoiled her. You still give her money, take her places, buy her things. STOP that. Your daughter behaves badly, take away priviledges. You need to teach her that her behavior has consequences. No more excuses.

I am trying to help her and you...just like years ago, when you ignored all advice. If you had started then, this progression of bad behaviors and dismal outcomes could have been prevented. Your daughter is out of control, and you need to regain that control or your daughter will end up dead (I am very serious about this).

I am truly sorry to see you like this. You did not answer my last post to you. I would appreciate an answer to this one.

All the best,




FBS 44, FWH 47
A during FWH's MLC
Forgive, live, love.
Everyday...

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
Quote
You still give her money, take her places, buy her things. STOP that. Your daughter behaves badly, take away priviledges.


I took away her cell phone and quit giving her money when she quit school last fall. And when she decided to move out, I was quite clear about disagreeing with her actions and that I wasn't supporting her. And I haven't. Other than buying her a few groceries a week ago because she is pregnant and I was worried about her health, she's gotten zero from me. I told her if she was going to make adult decisions, she had to figure it out on her own.

There were no priviledges to take beyond the ones I took, other than her social life. And therein lies the problem, because that is her downfall and there was no way I could stop her from leaving when I was at work or when I left the house.

Most kids, when grounded, are afraid enough (or respect their parents enough) to abide by it, even though they may throw a fit and let you know how much they hate it. She just waited for me to turn my back, and she snuck out the door and was gone, and the more I tried to get her to obey, the more she defied me. It's an ODD trait--they thrive on defiance. And what was I going to do to her for disobeying? Ground her again??

Hindsight says she would have been better served by a foster family at 14 or 15 than what I provided. I botched that because I loved her and couldn't face doing that to her. I wanted her with me.

I truly don't know what to do now. I've written DHS an email. I can call the cops and have her brought back home. Then what? Have them bring her home again when she leaves? And again? If I have her brought home and she leaves again, she'll be very careful not to call me or give out any info that would lead me to her. Right now we have semi-open communication.

Granted, many parents 100% single parent their children with no support or relief. But I'm willing to go to bat and say the majority of them don't have the behavior issues my daughter does. My son has turned out to be a pretty good guy. He's never touched alcohol and is almost 20. He doesn't smoke. He doesn't party. His "vice" is video games. And he's a 2nd year college student with enough credits that he's classified as a junior. Had my daughter been the same disposition as him or most other kids in this world, we'd have been fine. And in fact, she got a disproportionate share of my attention because she was a very needy child--faked illnesses that made the daycares call to have me pick her up, etc, because she wanted to be with me. We were extremely close until she hit puberty and she pulled away. That, unfortunately, happened right before my marriage fell apart and it's been downhill ever since.

lordslady #1583756 02/21/06 08:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,956
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,956
ll,

You know what...I think that I have to change my position on this. She isn't trying to jerk your chain...she is trying to get YOUR attention. She has been without it so long that she is totally lost. For years all your attention was on your WS and his drinking, then after the divorce you have been focused on your dating/social life. She got pushed to the side in her formidable years. It didn't take long for her to run amok.

Hindsight says she would have been better served by a foster family at 14 or 15 than what I provided. I botched that because I loved her and couldn't face doing that to her. I wanted her with me

Yes, I remember that alot of us encouraged you to love her enough to turn her over to the people that could help her.

I wouldn't think it would be too late. As long as she is under 18 you can start getting her into a group home. I see it all the time where I work right now and the kids change drastically.

Do something for HER today. Call the police...notify CPS...DO SOMETHING...don't just sit there on your laurels waiting for all this to get better. It won't...you have the voice of someone (iceprincess) telling you exactly how it has and WILL play out.

Take a day off work, contact authorities...make arrangements to have her picked up. Even if you have to set her up. Right now, she cannot think rationally for herself and YOU need to be the person to get this back on track.

She will scream...fight...claw...threaten...but just DO IT.

JMHO
committed

lordslady #1583757 02/21/06 09:07 AM
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,022
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,022
Quote
I took away her cell phone

this is perhaps the one thing that should have stayed with her...an underage minor living who knows where can at least call someone in case of an emergency...



Quote
I can call the cops and have her brought back home.


good.


Quote
Then what? Have them bring her home again when she leaves?


yes.


Quote
And again?

yes.



Quote
Right now we have semi-open communication.


right now you have a minor child out there somewhere, pregnant, defiant and perhaps HIV positive....with no cell phone and no way of reaching her.....

this is not semi-communication...


Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.
~~Buddha
soulloss #1583758 02/21/06 09:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 977
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 977
LL,

I hope you're reading and re-reading Liza's response to you... SHE KNOWS...

So many other's have been giving you awesomely wonderful (though hard) advice over the last years... me, included... and it just seems to me that no matter what any of us says, you are bound and determined to be your daughter's friend instead of her mother.

I've made some awful, terrible mistakes with my children... many of us have, especially when we think back in hindsight... but I'll tell you this: When my oldest daughter (now 24) began walking the road your daughter is (as a freshman in HS)... and she was literally walking around town during school hours to avoid going to school (and there were no cell phones for kids - and we didn't have one as parents, either)... here's what I did: Called the Truancy Officer at the school, called the police for help, and looked into every possible avenue to make sure she got educated. Truancy and/or dropping out was not an option. Eventually, as I told you before, I got her into Independent Study. I did 90% of the research myself, the calls myself, and the worrying myself. Her dad didn't agree with me at all. I had to do it all by myself. I "get" how hard it is...

Guess what? She not only graduated High School, but got herself a scholorship for the community college!

In fact, as I've told you before, two of my three children had huge, ugly, hairy problems... both graduated high school using untraditional means to do so... which I never would have known about had I not done the legwork to find out what was available.

I agree with what soulloss said, above...

The time for this waffling behavior is over. Your daughter needs you to be her mother right now. I'm here to tell you that regrets are possibly the most detrimental to your psyche when it involves your children. You will *never* be able to take back your mistakes... but you can begin to take steps to make it right from this point forward.

Look inside yourself, find that wounded 16 year old, and think about what you would have wanted if you were in your daughter's position. You will find the answers...



Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,474
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,474
Post deleted by Cherished

Last edited by Cherished; 02/21/06 10:07 AM.
Cherished #1583760 02/21/06 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
Let me tell you how the Child Welfare system works here in Iowa. I've been on the phone all morning telling my story again and again (just as I did 2 years ago when I was looking for help but keeping her in the home).

The story is the same from the main DHS office, the child welfare office, and the child protective services office:

"We are very sorry, but money is very short here and we are helping fewer and fewer children. I get at least one call per day with a story like yours and there is really nothing we can do of they don't have a criminal record. No one cares if she's living away from home, nor if she's using drugs, if she's not been charged. Running away doesn't constitute a criminal background, nor do her truancy issues from years past. They don't care that she's ADHD/ODD. She's not suicidal or homicidal. Statutory rape doesn't apply because she's 16. There is nothing I can offer you in this situation. I'm really sorry, and really embarassed to have to tell you that."

One woman even told me the best thing I could do was just lift her up in prayer. They all did tell me that if something bad happened to her, I could be charged because I'm legally responsible for her until she's 18. They said they understand my frustration, but their hands are tied.

It's the same freakin' story I got 2 years ago!

LL

soulloss #1583761 02/21/06 01:30 PM
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,022
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,022
Quote
I can call the cops and have her brought back home.


good.


Quote
Then what? Have them bring her home again when she leaves?


yes.


Quote
And again?


yes.


Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.
~~Buddha
soulloss #1583762 02/21/06 01:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
And what good does that do? I have her home for a day or so, maybe. She will be livid with me. She'll leave again and be that much harder to find. And she'll still not end up with a criminal record, but if all avenues of communication with her are taken away from me, I'll have no idea if she's alive or dead until someone is lucky enough to track her down.

I guess my question: what good does having her brought home over and over again do if she just runs over and over again? What is that teaching her? How is it helping her?


LL

lordslady #1583763 02/21/06 03:21 PM
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,298
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 7,298
Quote
I guess my question: what good does having her brought home over and over again do if she just runs over and over again? What is that teaching her? How is it helping her?

Hey don't have her brought home. Look at what you've taught her THAT way. Workin' real well, isn't it. Seriously, this is the most painful example of neglectful parenting I've ever seen.


Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.
Lucks #1583764 02/21/06 03:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 675
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 675
Quote
Hey don't have her brought home. Look at what you've taught her THAT way. Workin' real well, isn't it. Seriously, this is the most painful example of neglectful parenting I've ever seen.

I agree with Lucks/Laura. Take your chances on any criminal charges sticking to you and let her go. Say a prayer if you feel like it - just change the locks and be done with it. I wouldn't put up with this much abuse from my children.

My daughter has her problems, but when I call her on the phone and tell her quietly that I'm getting mad and she had better contact me, she does.

She's gotten shown the door before and she knows what I won't tolerate.

V.

sunnyva39 #1583765 02/21/06 03:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
Laura,

Quote
Seriously, this is the most painful example of neglectful parenting I've ever seen.


Okay, so you've pounded me into the ground. Tell me exactly step-by-step what you'd do in this situation. Don't just tell me to have her brought home. Tell me what you do once she IS home. How to keep her there. How to get through to her. How to make a difference. Concrete detailed ideas, not just abstract suggestions that I 'make her my first priority' or 'step up to the plate'.

What would you do? (Keep in mind, I work from 9am to around 7pm or so each evening--I'm a salaried dept. head and my hours aren't set in stone. Also keep in mind her father isn't involved in her parenting, and I have no extended family in the area. I'm all there is. Also keep in mind that while I do make decent money for someone with an AA degree, I have no savings or investments to fall back on or to pull from and my parents are dirt poor.)

LL

lordslady #1583766 02/21/06 07:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
L
Member
OP Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
I saw my therapist for the first time in 3 weeks, as she's been out on vacation. I shared with her what was going on with my daughter. I also shared what was going on here, with the suggestions that there is more that I can do and that I should be ashamed of myself for not doing more all along.

She asked me why it is I keep setting myself up on here to get beat to death, and what it is I expect to gain by then coming here to read it. At this point, I'm not sure. Self-punishment, I guess, because I keep rereading the posts that are the harshest about my lack of parenting skills or perceived neglect of my daughter.

She has a lot of experience with defiant teens and troubled youth, as well as the state system. She told me that what I heard today is a story she's very familiar with.

She said there is nothing I can do besides enforce my own boundaries--that at 16 my daughter is at an age of being accountable for her own choices and that I need to make a list of what I'm in control of (mainly things relating to how I take care of myself) vs. what I'm not in control of, and that I need to slow down the anxiety over all the things I can't control. She also discouraged me from having my daughter forcibly brought back home, saying it would do nothing but drive her further away.

So I wait..for what, I don't know.

I know that in the middle of this whole crisis, in trying to gain control over something in my life, I've all but busted up my relationship with R. She helped me sort through this today, and why it is for the past two days all I've been able to say is, "So, do you want to break up? You can't handle my daughter." At which point he becomes very silent and then says, "LL, don't even go there. This conversation needs to end now." And we hang up.

He admits that the thing that keeps him from being able to fully commit right now is not knowing if he can accept being around her for extended periods of time and watching how she treats me. My therapist says this makes sense, and that it's not fair of me to expect him to have answers right now. But because I'm so afraid that he'll decide he can't take her, and will dump me, and I feel like my life is so out of control, that I'm trying to find some sort of control by beating him to the punch and pushing to end a relationship that I don't even want to end, just to stop the surprises. It's crazy, but it makes sense. But I've been pretty cold and pushy over the last 24 hours. I've done some damage again.

LL

Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,116 guests, and 67 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5