I've kept away from this thread because I know I don't have any experience with these kinds of situations. However, I have been puzzled and bothered by all the let's-beat-up-on-lordslady stuff going on, which seem to be based on "shoulda-woulda-coulda" thinking. As if anyone really knows what would have happened if lordslady had handled anything differently!

But I'm stepping in now, lordslady, to say that so far I'm pretty impressed with your therapist. And I certainly agree that your primary role and responsibility has to be in enforcing your own boundaries. Your daughter has to know where she stands with you. Beyond that - recriminations and wishful thinking notwithstanding - she is responsible for her own decisions and actions.

Boundaries are about what you will or will not do.

The only advice I have to offer, that I've been repeating over and over on this thread is:

1. Quit throwing tantrums
2. Do whatever you can (that means what you CAN, not what you feel like) to rebuild the damage after you do throw a tantrum

You've been pretty clear you're not interested in either piece of advice, both by your excuses and objections, and by your continued actions doing the opposite, such as repeatedly shoving a topic at your boyfriend when he's been quite clear he is not willing to discuss it just now.

Ah well, you've been on this circle so many times before -- you reject the advice you're given, then when people point thatt out, you demand they give you advice you like better. If the whole point is to hear people agree with you, perhaps an advice forum isn't what you're looking for.

LL, I agree with GDP... listen to your therapist. You're really not a bad person, bad partner, or bad parent, but the way you present yourself invites negative feedback from a site that's generally positive.

I still wish you'd have been willing to try Al-Anon. I know you're divorced from the alcoholic, but as a long time Al-Anon member who resisted it, too, I know it could have helped you... still could (ask your therapist).

LL,
I don't see people intentionally trying to hurt you or trying to "beat up" on you.
What I see is seven pages of people trying to help you, as we always have tried to help you and we see your life in constant chaos because you keep making decisions that keep it that way.
The people on this board REALLY do have some good advice and want to help! They aren't on here to bash anyone!
I gotta tell ya from experience, that it DOES get frustrating to read your posts when it is crisis over and over again. Why does it seem to surround you? Do you think you have ANY ownership in it?
You get REALLY GOOD free help here! But when people give what they think is good advice and it falls on deaf ears with NO validation of it at all, just on to the next crisis, its get frustrating as the giver of the advice! (which is why I no longer post on your threads-I'm just here to try to explain to you that there is no hate toward you-it's frustration).
To sum: We ARE here to help, WE HAVE TRIED TO HELP!!! I tried so much, believe me! I have no bad feelings for you AT ALL!! In fact, I continue to have hope for you! I just feel sad for you because you can't see what you are doing to yourself and those around you; and to those of us that have good intentions on sharing our advice when you come here to ask for it.
I wish you all of the Good Lord's blessing He will bestow on you, if only you will let Him!

Okay, maybe more later, but just a couple comments.

I know I've made some parenting mistakes by not doing better at enforcing boundaries. I'm working with my therapist on that now--it's not an easy fix.

However, when it comes down to it, I fail to see how anything I could have done (short of locking my daughter up) could have ultimately prevented either the pregnancy OR the potential HIV issue. I can't be around her 24/7, and I've pleaded with her and tried my very best over the last year to get her on birth control and to get her to use protection. She made a decision not to.

What I need to do a better job of is being less "reactive" in these crises which is easier said than done when the last two huge issues have hit within 2 weeks of each other. I'm going to somehow have to get to the point where I am able to separate what I can control from what I can't, and leave the "can't" stuff in God's and my daugher's and my boyfriend's hands. I'm a control freak. That's difficult.

Letstry, I did look up some Al-Anon meeting times today, but there's nothing coming up that will work with my schedule (I need an 8pm meeting) until early in the week.

I also tried to research my area for support groups for parents of troubled teens (i.e., tough love groups). I apparently don't know how to find them, because I've found nothing in the Des Moines area so far.

As for the comments that I need to apologize to the clinic, first, I can't do it in a sincere fashion, and second, it seems to be a non-issue with my daughter and hasn't come up since that day. I think she would be more embarassed at this point if I brought it up again by taking something to them to apologize. I'm best to just stay away.

She is talking to me daily, though sometimes they are very brief calls if I say something she doesn't want to hear, like encouraging her to come home or pushing her about the HIV issue.

I'm going with the therapist's advice to not bring her home but to allow her to make her choices, and working on deciding what I am and am not willing to do (i.e., run over to IC if she needs something). It helps that she's in the same city as my son, so he sees her every couple days when she comes and has him buy her a meal at the college cafeteria and I know in the event of an emergency, she can come to him or his girlfriend--they both have cell phones and can contact me if need be.

But right now I'm the most concerned about the HIV situation. I found out that she thought she was tested but the blood test didn't include an HIV test (sleuthing done by my sister with the clinic), but that the HIV test would have to be requested separately and is an oral swab. So I'm currently paying my son to see if he or his girlfriend can get both my DD and her boyfriend in for the HIV test, and told my son to name his price. If he can get it done, it's worth it to me to pay him for his help. He's working on it.

I know her life is a mess, but I'm praying that as as she becomes more emotionally mature, she will be able to pull herself together. I've had many women I know tell stories of people they know personally who as teens were a complete mess, but who as adults live relatively normal lives. My daughter is very intelligent and very creative. She has the potential, if it could just be properly focused. But I'm all wrought up over this HIV thing, because it could mean the difference of her having a chance at a future vs. not having a future to look forward to. It's a huge issue, bigger even than the pregnancy. I feel like if the HIV issue would turn out to be a non-issue, I am better equipped to deal with the other issues at hand. It's just been a lot all at once and it's overload, especially with my therapist gone through the whole deal and no professional to confer with until yesterday afternoon.

LL

Lordslady - wow alot is still going on huh??? I just don't think that everyone is as against you as you think... I just think that many of us cannot fathom - how or why your 16 year old daughter is not living with you and is living with some guy that she got pregnant by and now has an HIV scare - I mean it just seems unbelievable to me.. but I also know that you cannot understand what you are going through unless you are going through it also... Hopefully your daughter will learn a valuable lesson from this situation - and that it will scare her enough to turn herself around... I mean 16 with a child is crazy - 16 with a child with HIV and all of that is just worse... Hopefully everything will be alright... and as for calling the cops - well if it were my daughter I would report her as a runaway - but the first thing I would do was to put a cellphone in her possesion so you can stay in contact with her... if only for your sanity... I truly cannot fathom what you are feeling as a mother... but why would you pay your son to talk your daughter into getting a test??? I don't understand that - maybe I missed something... I truly wish you the best and I believe you should continue with your therapy and I just would worry about your daughter - and her situation... top priority....

LL:
I've posted a couple of times and hopefully you'll get something out of this one.

I too have had many issues with my 2 sons for the last 12 years as a single mother. I have learned that it is imperative for us to allow our children to suffer the consequences for the choices they make. Otherwise they learn nothing. They let us suffer the consequences for them and they go on to make more and sometimes worse mistakes.

I have also learned not to beat myself up over mistakes I have made as they apply to them. I can only do my best with what I have today and that's all I can do. That's all any of us as parents can do.

Your daughter made the choice to have unprotected sex. You say she's smart, then I'm sure she was smart enough to understand the risks she was taking. If she wasn't then, then surely she is now. By getting pregnant and possibly having HIV, she is reaping some of what she has sown. As her mother, you simply have to let her suffer for her mistakes. Otherwise, she won't learn from them and that is ultimately what you want. For her to make better choices.

As a mother, letting my sons suffer for the bad choices they make is the hardest thing I've done as a parent. I've let my sons sit in jail. How many times have I told them "You get one get out of jail free card. After that, if you break the law I'll visit you in jail but I won't pay to get you out." I've watched them drive off knowing they were going to probably smoke weed with their friends. I've worried incessantly about my older son getting HIV because he is gay and chooses to live a gay lifestyle. I visit my younger son in drug rehab. I saw my older one get down to 120 lbs. because he was doing coke. I've risked bodily harm to myself because my younger one came home messed up on bars and I proceeded to scream at every kid outside to get the he!#$ off my property. (A couple of them got belligerent with me.) I've taken anti-depressants, suffered from ulcers and other stress-related disorders, lost boyfriends because they couldn't handle the kind of stuff I handle everyday.

I understand why you feel overwhelmed. I understand you wanting answers to questions about what can I do different. I've asked those questions myself. I've had friends of younger children look at me like I have the worse kids on earth when I've talked about the issues I go through with my sons. Now they know, their children are teenagers.

I'm sorry for your pain. I know how intense it is. I learned a long time ago to accept things I can't change and to change the things I can. That wisdom is hard to come by sometimes. You can't change the fact that your daughter made the choice to have unprotected sex and is now pregnant.

If she wants to act like an adult and live independently from you, then she needs to learn to make adult decisions. Making her own mistakes will be her best teacher.

Good luck to you!

okay, so you have established your daughter is an area you can not control, did you write that down on the list?

And did you also write down you have no control over whether or not she has HIV or not?

you have no control over the fact she is pregnant.

And you know concerning your man friend, I don't think it's that he can't handle your daughter, I do think it's that he can not stand to see her treat you (someone he apparently cares about) like dirt.

Think about this, how do you think you would feel watching his children treat him the way your daughter treats you? Would you want to be around watching it?

If my kids treated me the way your daughter treats you, my husband would be letting them know "they DO NOT talk to their mother that way." He would be protecting me from that abuse.

And in that this man is NOT your husband, his hands are tied and he doesn't have any authority to SAY ANYTHING to YOUR daughter. He has no authority as your husband, nor as your daughters step-father to say anything. If he loves you as much as you think he does, it probably tears him up inside watching it all.

Think about it, how would you respond if HE raised his voice to your daughter?

Wasn't going to post here again, given how beat to death I feel. But what the heck. The latest.

My daughter wanted to come home for a few days last Sunday, so I ran over and picked her up. Decent drive home, and then I went to bed. Next morning I woke to find she'd taken all my meds--about 40+ pills in total. She apparently vomited them back up, but I called 911 anyway and she was hauled to the adolescent psych unit by ambulance.

Three days later she was released to her father, so he could take her to get her abortion (which she didn't end up getting yet, because she claims she had the appointment time wrong). I think she's very scared about all that, but it's a subject she chooses not to discuss. So she is now still pregnant, and has exposed an unborn child to high levels of prescription drugs as well as who knows what beyond that.

This latest incident threw me over the edge and I pushed the hospital to get the state involved, even if it meant her going to a group home and me giving up custody. I told them--I can't keep her safe. She doesn't respect me. She needs help! They think she may have borderline personality disorder, but until she wants help, they said they can't help her.

And because her dad and fiancee were LIVID to find out that I was suggesting letting the state take her in, I got the riot act from them. The day she was released, the mediator/therapist, my ex and I had to have this 2 hour conference to decide what we wanted to do.

My hands are tied--therapist said so (just the latest in a long line). She wants to go back to IC, her father agrees that it's the thing to let her do, and the likelihood of state involvement now that her psychiatrist decided she's not suicidal but just wanted attention is nil. The mediator told me that unfortunately the only things I can do now are to call IC and try to get her set up with outpatient therapy, and then leave it up to her whether she'll go or not and CALL AN ATTORNEY IMMEDIATELY. He says I need to find out my rights and find out how I can protect myself in case she chooses to do something really stupid over there, since I'm still legally responsible for her.

It all s*cks so badly! I'm angry at the state, angry at my ex, and angry at my daughter for just walking on me over and over. She had the nerve to call me yesterday asking for money to help support her over there, if she decides to go back to school part time. I told her that people can go to school and have part-time jobs at the same time, and that if she was choosing to live on her own she needed to do this. She informed me that her dad said I didn't need the new car I just bought, that I could have fixed my old one and kept driving it, that I could take some of my retirement money and send to her, and that I don't need that gym membership either. I told her I didn't choose to continue the conversation and hung up. Haven't spoken since.

And then the other part that you'll all beat me to death on. My relationship with R is right back where it was before the holidays. It's fallen apart. He now doesn't know how things will work, doesn't want to end thing, but is extremely frustrated and sees little hope of making it over our hurdles.

Hurdle #1: distance

Hurdle #2: my taking away the sex--says he can't go long term (like 2 years) without and continue to see me--that it's how men express love to woman and he's frustrated

Hurdle #3 (the biggest): my daughter--his point is that in the almost 8 months since he's known me, she's become exponentially worse, she treats me like crap, I let her, and that he really doesn't feel that he can find it in himself to interract with her. However, he realizes she's always going to be my daughter--that the issues will never go away. We can't even let his kids meet her--I wouldn't be remotely comfortable with that happening. In fact, I don't like anyone to meet her anymore because of what crude or rude comment may pop out of her mouth toward them or me.

I hate that I feel like I have to hide my own daughter. It brings back a lot of memories of being married to an alcoholic and not wanting to introduce him to people or have people come over for fear he'd be drunk and obnoxious. My daughter isn't drung--she's just obnoxious.

I've had a friend here at work today tell me that I'm going to just have to say "no" to my daughter--no to money, no to coming home, no to pretty much everything. What if I do that and she makes another attempt on her life and succeeds? I'll never forgive myself.

But my hands are tied--and I'm letting her destroy my life and beat me down to the point that I feel I'm totally worthless. And now my boyfriend can't commit to me.

Neither pastor from my church has called in the 6 weeks I've been absent, and it's not like they don't know I'm gone. We only have 40-50 people who attend. They used to call or send me the bulletin if I missed a week. Neither of their wives have called. No one really seems to care if everything is okay or if I'm alive or dead. The one woman I've had lunch with a couple times did email me 2 days ago. I'll email her back.

But she and a few people here at work are my only close friends. I can't see my therapist for 2 more weeks--she's booked solid--so she doesn't even know about the sort-of suicide attempt that my daughter did.

I got up this morning and found myself in the shower wondering if God even exists, or if my son is right. It seems like each time something starts to calm down (my daughter was calmer in the summer, my relationship had calmed down in January when R told me he really thought I was the one for him and he even sort of talked marriage), and I start to get comfortable...it all blows freakin' sky high.

I am so angry that 16-yr-olds completely fall through the cracks in this state. It's been confirmed now in the last couple weeks by 3 DHS workers, a therapist/mediator at the hospital, and my therapist...and that my hands are tied. I can't control her. I can't make her do anything. No one suggests having the cops bring her back if she goes. All anyone says is that hopefully she will manage to stay alive until she hits 20 or so and maybe by then she'll mature a little.

I am having a very difficult time believing that God is working this for my good. Everyone has problems. I just want to know why the last 23 years have been one thing after another. Why couldn't I have a loving husband? Why couldn't I have 2 "normal" kids instead of one with huge emotional/mental issues? Why was I given her to parent, when I can't parent her?

I am angry at her for treating me like such sh*t, for walking all over me, for demanding that I support something I don't agree with. I'm angry at my ex for not supporting me on the state-custody idea to try and help her (had he supported me, we might have had a tiny shot at pursuing it, though doubtful). I'm angry at the state for it's total lack of support for situations like this.

And yet I feel this tremendous guilt at pushing away my baby girl to protect myself from further harm. She was such a sweet little thing. How can anyone call themselves a mother and essentially turn their back on their child, no matter how bad they are?

I think if I dropped off the earth, no one would really notice...some people might actually feel relief.

LL

LL,

I don't really know what to say except that I am sorry that your life is in such chaos. . . I'm sorry for your troubled daughter. I would notice if you dropped off the face of the earth. I would care and I don't know you from Eve.

I think that you are a kind woman. I think that you, like everyone, deserves to be with someone that loves and cherishes them. I don't know if your current BF is the one or not. I think that you should stop trying so hard and just be still for a while. Stop obsessing over your BF . . . just enjoy him when you can. Stop obsessing over your daughter, just be there for her and do for her what she will let you. I don't thinkg that tough-love will be that effective with a pregnant and suicidal teen. Get her home if you can. If not, go find her. She really needs a Mom right now . . . she doesn't have to like you right now . . . being a parent sometimes is a thankless and horrible job.

Life will get better for you LL. Really.

CN,

It is a very difficult situation. I spoke with a Family Law attorney today--will be setting up an appointment with him next week to pursue some issues with child support.

I found out from him the same thing that all others have told me. The state will not step in and help given that she's 16 1/2 and doesn't have a criminal record. I as her custodial parent have the right to determine where she lives, be that at home, somewhere else, or to be in a private locked facility. The problem with that third option is that I'm very financially strapped and have no family resources (as in, they're poor as dirt), so as he said, "yes, your hands are tied".

He did tell me that I can only be held resposible for the first $2,000 should she hurt someone else (I don't see her doing that) and that it is highly doubtful that charges of negligence would ever be brought against me given the things I've tried already that were unsuccessful and given her history.

However, I am still responsible for providing her a place to live, so if I choose (or don't choose, but am forced) to let her live in IC, I still need to support her. This brought up the issue of my ex and his discontinuing child support in mid-January (actually after 12/31, because the only check I've gotten since then bounced). The attorney says he's still obligated to pay support, and was shocked that the divorce attorney I had didn't force his wages to be garnished (I had a well-known attorney). He, I'm sure, can see some $$ to be had from me, but I don't have any choice really--I need his help. So I'm seeing him next week and we're going to perhaps be slapping the ex's hands good and proper for deciding he's done paying support, if he's going to force me to allow her to live over in IC by refusing to go along with me on getting her help.

As for the relationship with R, I don't know where that stands. On one hand, even my therapist says it's to be expected that he may not be able to accept my daughter; on the other hand it's breaking my heart to be with someone who doesn't know how to deal with my daughter and is uncomfortable at the thought of interacting with her.

And no matter how many people I know tell me I've done all I can and that I'm not a bad person, if I shut my daughter out of my life (or at least refused to let her be in my house for fear she'll walk all over me while she's there and belittle me as always), that I am just selfish and awful.

I really could use a therapy appointment.

LL

Post deleted by Cherished

Wondering how yer doin', LL...

Praying for ya.

Bump



I too am still praying for you. Email me if you wish

Dawn

Lordslady - Hope everything is going ok??? You have been away for quite a few weeks now..... Just hope everything turned out ok with your daughter...