Thanks, KaylaAndy- the vision of a heavenly little "trainer"
with wings adding weights to my barbell gave me a big smile
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, takes SOOOOO much energy and adds so much stress when
you try to carry too much of the burden yourself.
I've prayed and prayed for healing of H, ever since he was
first diagnosed with depression and OCD years ago, and then
when it became apparent there was more than depression I
prayed for him to be open to that, find a good Dr and IC,
and be able to overcome all those "demons". Thought some of
those prayers had been answered when WH wanted to come home
and said he was re-committed to our M, got into IC, and got
a good Dr who finally diagosed the BPD ~
BUT, the A resumed anyway, the meds have't seemed to be the "right" mix, and the IC has seemed to "enable" his A more than help, so still a l-o-n-g way to go.

Although having to find a new job, having financial trouble,
and likely having to find a new home are all stressful and
hurtful, the biggest devastation in all this is losing the
wonderful person, husband, and my best friend, that H used
to be. Whether the illness has taken that from him or it's
primarily the A fog, don't know, but the combination of the
two have certainly been very lethal to me and our M.

H used to be a very disciplined person with great self
control, "will-power", and the ability to accomplish any
thing he set his mind too, whether it be accomplishing a
work project or losing some pounds. Would be nice if he
could use that again, to HELP himself.
Slammed

Checked my email earlier and there was a message from WH,
just saying "he wondered if there was enough money in the
checking account to cover the checks that would be clearing
now, as he had been sick since end of last week and had not
felt up to going to the bank to add his deposit".

I didn't reply back, didn't know if I should.
Answer would be, "Yes, there should be enough to cover the checks clearing now". (and if we were ever short, we do have
a line of credit that automatically covers any shortage).

Did feel bad he is sick again. He's rarely ever sick, and
just had bronchitis a few weeks ago. OW must be SO stressful
that dealing with her is knocking down his immune system <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm sure she's there, though, playing "nurse". Gross !

Worked on some job sites and walked the dog earlier, have
music rehearsal tonight. Also finished cleaning out part
of the basement and bar area. There were bunches of bottles
of wine down there (mostly gifts from WH's clients) that WH
hadn't wanted and left, and which I don't want, so I packed
them up to do "something" with them. (Any ideas- I don't
think "Goodwill" takes this sort of donation ?)
Tomorrow I'm planning to wash and clean my car, and hope
that a friend might be free for lunch-

Slammed

Slammed:

He's mighty incompetent if he can't check the balance in the checking account. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Don't respond to him.

I wish I could convince you not to have sympathy for him.

slammed

if you'd like to give me your H e-mail address, i can send him an e-mail stating that you have decided that your continued contact with him, as long as he is involved with the OW, is just too painful for you and that your hope is to preserve your love for him in the hopes that you might reconcile once the affair has ended (similar to what Jennifer had me write). I would say that I am a friend of yours and that you have asked me to act as an intermediary to recieve and respond to his e-mails to help to "protect your heart".

it would show that you are setting boundries and that you are not willing to settle for just being his friend or even have contact with him while he is involved with OW.

it might make a difference in what happens next since he has taken the step of filing for D

but....i will understand if you are afraid that it might make him withdraw some financial support at a time when you can't afford for that to happen

Morning All,
It's a grey, cooler day here, with chance of storms later
but I'm determined to make it a nice day anyhow (my bday).

Juiced everything I could find for a nice, healthful start,
listened to some music, straightened up around the house
this morning, and after cleaning up myself, will work on
a few more job applications, then have errands to run.
Just for fun and something different, thought I might get
a manicure/pedicure later, and have tentative plans for
dinner with a friend. My parents return from vacation later
today, but I expect they will be tired (flew overnight) so
probably won't see them today- maybe can have lunch with
them tomorrow prior to my job interview.

It is hard not to think of WH and the fun we always had
celebrating special times together, but I'm trying not to
dwell on it today. We were apart last year too with me sure
suspecting, but not yet knowing about A. Hadn't expected
anything, and figured WH might have even forgotten my bday
but came home to find roses and a card, which was a nice
surprise. Two weeks later, though, was DDay, when OW called
to tell me ALL about the A.
It's frustrating, sad, and disapointing to know it's been
going on for over a year. Well, not going to think about
that today ~

Mimi- Yes, WH can access the account balance, although he
would have little idea of what all checks would be clearing
and no idea of what debit/withdrawals I may have made or
how much money I put in myself. I don't mistake this as being "concern" over me, however- he is just very particular
about never bouncing a check !
I didn't reply. Will check the account later to see if he
made the deposit today.

Wouldn't say I feel particularly "sympathetic" about WH
being sick again, at least any more than I feel sorry for
anyone dealing with illness.

EAV- Thanks for again offering to be an intermediary.
I am really "mulling" this over, and may end up taking you
up on it, but do have some concerns, knowing WH will never
agree to send any financial info through a 3rd party, and
a little fearful about the financial support issue.
Woke up today thinking I might even try to talk to SH, just
so I can feel that I did all I could, and he may have had
a sitch like this before and have some thoughts-

Slammed

Slammed,

You said: "I don't mistake this as being "concern" over me, however- he is just very particular
about never bouncing a check !"

This is great, this is something I should have done and be doing too. I 'mistake' his niceness as 'caring for me' at times, I guess because I am desperately seeking the possible 'signs'! So thanks for saying this, this is something I should keep in mind as well.

Have a nice day,
Milk

No. Don't. Let him figure it out.



Gee. Tough on him, innit?

Don't protect him from the consequences of his choices. If he wants financial info, he's going to have to go through a third party because you no longer wish to talk to him. Eav is a good idea.

Take a bottle of wine when you have dinner tonight.

In fact, throw a party with all the wine you have. Make it a potluck.

"Letting go" has simple, practical implications: you don't date; you don't make any decisions that would preclude reconciliation. You hold to no contact ... because it is a decision, not something that just happened. You are holding your own line of actions and decisions, for him to respond to or not respond to as he pleases.

"Giving up" may mean resuming contact, because there's no hope or wish for any particular resolution. "Giving up," in my book, is equivalent to "I don't care."

"Letting go," in this case, means you continue to care very much. But you recognize that you can only undertake principled actions on your own behalf, and let him fall on his fanny.

Did you have a good birthday?

Milk

Thanks A.M. and Milk, and to everyone for the Birthday
Wishes !
Was so tired and stressed last night that I didn't feel up to posting. My day started out okay, with me working on a few more job applications, straightening up the house, and
running errands. Went and had my nails done, just as a fun
"treat" and so they would look nice for today's interview.
Went and got the car wash and vacuumed too (so of course,
it rained later !)
Got home and had a message from a friend, confirming our
dinner plans with some other friends/former co-workers,
so was feeling pretty good about the day.

Then, played the other messages. One was the court clerk
confirming appointment today with the "facilitator"- the
appointment I knew might be coming but hoped wasn't going
to happen.
The other message was WH. He said he was sorry to call, but figured I was "off the computer for the day". Said he was calling for a couple things- one being to tell me "Happy Birthday". Another being to tell me that he had deposited the money for the Oct. bills, and lastly to remind me of our appt with the court "facilitator" today.(as though he had told me about it before, which he never had. Actually,
I think he probably either thought it was a different date
or forgot himself, but tried to act like he hadn't).
He said "If you want to meet beforehand, to talk about a
few of the issues and go over the paperwork, let me know
and we can meet somewhere downtown".

I went on to dinner with my friends, but as you can imagine
certainly didn't feel much like eating or celebrating.
I tried to enjoy myself and did have fun being with my
friends, but it was really tough. Two of the friends do
try to be helpful and supportive, but often say things like
"there are more fish in the sea" or "just get out there and
meet someone new and you'll be over WH and all this", which
aren't very helpful. The other friend was D many years ago
after finding out her H had affair with his 13 yrs younger
secretary (whom he later married, had twins with, and moved
to our town with after his retirement). She's never gotten
over the D, and didn't say much, except just that "she could
understand" how I felt.

Came home feeling exhausted, stresed and nervous about the
appt today and knowing I'd also have to try to get myself
together for the job interview. Was SO, SO upset- called my
IC to see if she could get me in this week, and was lucky
in that she answered her phone, talked to me a few minutes,
and is seeing me this afternoon, after the interview.
Had also called earlier yesterday to try to get appt. with
SH, but haven't gotten a response back yet.

Was so tired that I slept okay, but woke up today feeling
sick, nervous, and very tired. Got ready and tried to look
my best- then tried to "psych" myself up as I drove down to
the courthouse. Got to the appropriate office and didn't see
WH anywhere, which suprised me- he's usually early. The
facilitator came out and asked my name, then asked if WH
was coming- she was the person we were to see. Said he was
coming as far as I knew, and that I'd only known about this
meeting since last night, to which she looked surprised.
Right then WH arrived, so she took us right into her office
to get started. She was the same person we met with last
year, and said "didn't I work with you before ?". We both
said yes, then WH added "We filed last year, but didn't know
what we wanted to do, so let it all expire".

Facilitator went over the paperwork, explained next "steps",
asked if we had any questions- all quite "cut and dried".
WH said his only question and only issue he thought we'd
have would be the house. He explained that I was living in
our house but that he had been paying 60-70 pct of the bills
and expenses, even since he moved out and was paying all his
own expenses. Said he "hadn't minded doing it", but didn't
feel he should have to keep doing it "indefinitely", so was
wanting us to either get the house up for sale, or for me
to take it over.
She then asked my thoughts, so I explained about losing my
job, and that I was making every effort to find another as soon as possible. Mentioned I had an interview later .Said I would like to keep this house, if I could afford it but wouldn't know that until I got a job. Said if I was not going to be able to afford it, then I would be agreeable to selling it.
She then asked what I thought would be a reasonable time to
wait as I continued trying to find a job. I said "no way
to know that for sure". She then said, "what about putting
the house up for sale, but then if I got a job and could
keep it, taking it off the market". I said my concern with
that would be getting an offer on the house before I knew
or could arrange to keep the house, and having to cancel a
contract or take it off the market and losing money in doing
so. I also brought up the fact that there is no way to know
how long a house might take to sell, and wouldn't be able
to pay all the costs myself while waiting for it to sell.
She said generally, they will designate either a specific
length of time, or state "until it sell" and both parties
will be responsible for paying the costs.

Finally, she went over the "timetable", saying that the
sooner we got all financial info and a "settlement proposal"
to her, the sooner she could get it reviewed and on the
judge's schedule to look at, but that it would be no sooner
than end of Nov (the 90 days wait period) and likely would
take longer than that, due to "backlog", holidays, etc.
She advised that if we absolutely could not come to agree
on any issue, then we would have to go to "mediation" which
would cause additional delay and cost us both, but added
that did not seem "likely" since we had so little to settle.
She also said that after the 90 day period was up, they
still usually took about 2-3 weeks additional to get it
all done and notify us. Unless we request "to appear", it would be done without us going before a judge, and the paperwork would just be mailed to each of us.
Gee, what a wonderful Thanksgiving and Christmas it's going
to be, with all this going on <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

That was it, so we both walked out, and I just headed to the
exit door. Wh walked along in same direction, but didn't say
anything. Then, as we got to the door, he asked if there was
any mail for him. I said "Yes, there were a few things for
him, but I had forgotten to bring them, but would just have
them forwarded to him". He said "didnt need to worry about
it right now". I continued walking, but he got to the door
before I did, and said "So, what time and where is your
interview" ? I kept going and just said "It's at 2pm, so
I've got to go", then went right on to my car.
When I looked back I saw that he was walking the other way,
and got into a car that was not his usual- looked like a
"loaner" from the car dealer, so he must be having some
work or maintenance done. (It wasn't OW's vehicle)
Drove off and got about five minutes away before I started
to cry. Can't describe it other than to say it was a huge
overwhelming sadness.
Thought about WH- he had looked tired and kind of "peaked"
like a person does right after being sick, but otherwise
looked good, same as usual. Would have liked to ask about
his D13 and her upcoming birthday, his parents, his dog,
why he had another car, and how work was going, but knew
I couldn't. Would have liked to told him about our dog,
all I did in the yard, my job interview and places I've
applied, but knew I couldn't.
MOST of all, would have liked to say things like:
How can you do this to US and to ME ?
Don't you realize you are destroying US and ME ?
What is SO great about OW that you're giving up 11 years
of love, support, fun, special times, and life together
for her ?
WHY are you in such a RUSH ?
and much, much more.....
but knew I couldn't, and it wouldn't matter to him anyway.

Got home and have faxed a couple more job applications.
Now must get ready for job interview, and then go directly
to IC. I feel sort of "numb" right now, but know I will
probably really "crash" tonight after it's all over and
I'm really tired. Will let you know how the interview goes.
Slammed

((((slammed)))))

I hope your interview goes well. I'm glad you are able to see IC today.

{{{Slammed}}}

It's been a very long day for you. What you felt was completely normal and understandable. I know this does not change anything about your situation right now, but knowing that all of MBers have gone through this and survivide may give you some hope. Your WH is a big idiot, and he is emotionally numb, and that's why he could do this. It will hit him too later on, believe me. In the mean time, please just know that we are here for you.

Milk

Home now from the job interview and IC.
Felt like the interview went okay, but as I learned more
about the actual position, it didn't sound too appealing-
mostly just answering phones and handling some customer
inquiries, much more like a receptionist than an "office
manager" as it had been described. I also got the feeling
that it wouldn't pay as much as I have to make, so left
feeling somewhat disappointed. Got home a short time ago
and already had a message saying they "were impressed by
my credentials, but I was not selected for the position",
and thanking me for my time and interest...
Hope I'll start hearing from some of the other positions-
I've applied for at least 10 in the past week !

IC went okay. She just let me vent, which I badly needed to
do, and then we discussed some various issues, including
some reasons WH is able "to do this" (his justifications
and reasons), the reasons why WH can't say "I'm sorry", or
admit/acknowledge the A is the reason behind D, or explain any of his thoughts or actions (would have to admit he did things he knows are wrong and actually take responsibility for them.)
Told her about OW's nasty message last week, which cemented
her opinion that OW has some major issues herself beyond
the obvious (paranoid, insecure, inmature, game playing
and very controlling/manipulative). Made her laugh when I
said "that B*$@h is crazy !!"

I didn't laugh when IC said she felt like WH would not now
change his mind or hold back from pursuing D "full steam
ahead". Said she felt like he had struggled for a long time
with a decision, probably waiting to see how things went w/
OW, and seeing how he felt living alone at "his" house, and
for awhile now had been giving "clues" that he was "closing
the door" on me, US, thoughts of reconciliation, and any
willingness to work on M.
Does anyone feel like there is any chance left ?

Very tired, tense and mentally drained tonight,so just plan
to eat something easy, walk the dog, get ready for bed
early and watch a movie. Will see parents tomorrow for a
"belated" birthday lunch or dinner.

Slammed

There isn't any chance right now, so organize your actions accordingly.

I always thought this one was a longshot, Slammed, given the pre-existing issues.

But the future? Who knows. We've seen cases more far gone than this one come back together -- but that won't help you right now. And dwelling on those possibilities will keep you from making the efforts you need to make right now.

Honestly, Slammed, I don't know how I'm going to get through the next six months, either. You just think about the next set of moves you have to make: job interviews, bills, and throwing that potluck with all the leftover wine.

Just take care of right now. Sounds like you are doing that.

p.s. Your counselor makes WH sounds like an intelligent decision-maker, calmly deciding what to do in a rational situation. I very much doubt that is the case.

Ate a quick bite and getting ready now to walk the dog.
Feel very tense, tight and tired- so will come back and
get comfy in the warm bed, just watch some mindless TV
until ready to sleep.

Guess I'm still feeling pretty numb. Tried to pray but I
didn't know what to say, I've said all so many times.

Sorry you are on the rough water right now too, A.M.

Didn't mean to make it sound like IC thinks WH is making any
kind of calm or rational decision- don't think he can think that clearly or that far ahead, either one.
IC just thought that once he finally made his decision for whatever reasons, that he has put up his "wall" in order to prevent anything/anyone from changing his mind, and to help block out all thoughts of us, me , the M, in order to help
keep it "justified" in his mind and avoid guilt.
Thought that his using very generalized/cliche sayings in
justifying himself previously, such as "that's life", "have to move on", "have to get over it", and the like, are good
indications that he is not accepting any responsiblity for
his choices and actions, but rather "blaming" it on "fate",
"destiny", and other vague items...
She feels like he is still very conflicted, not out of a "manic" cycle of his bipolar, and possibly feeling very trapped in the sitch with OW and resenting her control over
him, possibly even to the point of filing for D.
She agrees that their "relationship" is likely to implode,
although no way of knowing if sooner or later however...
Slammed

My WH is the same way - he said 'we need to move on', 'you have to get over it', etc., and even said 'remember, the fortune teller once told you that our R would not last - she was right!' Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease. He is using all of those 'vague items' to justify his decision as well.

But like AM said, I feel that WH would not change his mind either at this point. He has already tried to 'doubt' his decision, but he did not feel comfortable enough to accept his responsibility that comes with his decision. Yours is the same way, so we both have to go through D, it's probably the only option left for us, and if we have no other choice, we should try to remain positive and accept it with an attitude that this will lead us to somewhere more peaceful. We don't know what will happen in the future, but regardless, our suffering should not last forever. Let's be hopeful. I know it's tough, I am in the same boat, Slammed...

Keep applying for jobs. When I was put on the probation program, I was sending out 2-3 resumes a day. You will get one that is meant for you.

Milk

Dear slammed,

The following quote is just what I was thinking before I read it.


I agree fully with your therapist Slammed, he is still on a
"high" episode. Nothing he is doing is reality, nothing he is doing rational.

You are dealing with a husband with bipolar, it's a whole different scenerio. People with bipolar can accomplish anything during a "high" episode, new woman, divorce, just interested in a good time, and nothing can stop them in that episode.

I talked with a lady a few days ago with bipolar, she told me she was in an episode all summer. I asked her why she didn't call me for help, she said "the last thing I wanted was help, I was having such a good time."

I listened to a woman preacher the other day on the radio, and she talked of her husband having bipolar and the He11
she went through with him due to it. Soon after she divorced him, he committed suicide. Sad.

Your husband is going to implode sooner or later Slammed. I wouldn't advise your being there when he does. He has a therapist and a Dr. to go to. He's not really interested in their help either, he's just putting on a show right now when he see's them, and they know that. They see right through it. He's not interested in Gods help either.

He's gonna hurt OW and leave also, just as he has left you, and just as he has left his children. Bipolars don't have the capability to care. They are people that need to be single and have no children, because they leave so much pain in their wake. Trust me on that Slammed.

You just take care of you, trust in the Lord, don't look back any more, go forward. You will have a brighter future
without him.

I'm praying God will bring you a prosperous job, and all His best.

Sent with Love,
Lady

Thanks Milk and LadySheep~
Slept a little later this morning, as it was cool and grey.
Don't feel very rested though- had a recurring thought/dream
with me all night that I can't get to "settle down" (more on
that below).

More job searching to do this morning and have some email
correspondence to catch up also. I plan to attend a "Job
Fair" at the local college this afternoon. Never been to one
before, but figured it couldn't hurt- and it gets me out of
the house too.

I too, believe that WH is still in the "manic" cycle , based
not only on the continuing affair, but also some other of
his behaviors, such as spending. Don't know how he's doing
on meds/his IC, etc. since being out of "the loop" on that
for many months now, although I do know he still goes to IC
as I see it on our insurance statements.

LS, your comment about WH leaving OW really struck a very
interesting "chord" with me, because I always think of the
affair never ending unless/until OW breaks it off with HIM.
The reason I've felt/thought this is that in all the past
relationships WH had that I know about, it was always the
other person that broke up with him, never HIM that would
break it off. In the several "break ups" between he and OW,
it's also appeared/sounded like they have all been initiated
by her, rather than him.
When I told my IC about that, she said it sounded like he's a conflict-avoider, and seems to have a definite issue with
not being able to be the "bad guy", which could have been partly to blame for his "cake eating" - couldn't detach from either OW or me, couldn't be the "bad guy" to either
of us, and coulndn't be "to blame" for anything that happened.
Except now, that he doesn't seem bothered by conflict, or
his being the "bad guy" in filing D, I wonder if this whole
line of thought has been wrong, or what happened that is
allowing him to not only be the "breaker upper", but also
face conflict and be "the bad guy". ?????

Don't know what made me remember it because it was a minor
thing several months ago, but had a thought that I wrestled
with all night long. I remembered back in Mar or Apr when
I was still going to IC with WH, that he had told his IC
he was very upset and bothered that I had said "it would be
over and we would be done, if he moved to that other house".
That wasn't what I'd said. I had told him I felt his wanting
to move to the other house was about his wanting to continue
the affair, not work on the M, as he had said he was willing
to do, and was detrimental to our making any recovery.
He insisted though, that I'd said "it'd be over", and seemed
honestly upset and hurt by it.

Know there's no way to really know, and it's just another
speculation, but I just can't get past this thought and
wondering how he got from hurt/upset that I'd say "it was
over" to now not caring, deciding it was "over" himself,
and even filing D ???
Makes me feel like he must have still cared about me and us
at least to some degree, and wasn't convinced that he wanted
OW or the affair, so what happened between then and now, to
change things this much in 6 mos. is what really haunts me.
Feel like I missed the right timing for Plan B to do any good since I didn't do it immediately after he moved out of the house (as you may recall, we were involved in selling land togther, then had a delay when he went out of town to see ill father). Know I can't change that now, but it sure
is going to always bother me and make me wonder.

Slammed

Slammed,

What he said then probably did not mean much - remember, he HAS to be the victim, so I doubt that he had spent a lot of time thinking about what you said during the counseling. He was upset, so he conveniently used it to make him feel less guilty. Because think about it, even if you DID say that once he moves out, your M would be over - if you a rational person, if you had an affair, wouldn't you think your spouse will be very upset and may say that M is over? Do you blame him/her for saying that?

He wants to be the 'good' guy, just like mine, but he has done so much damage to your M, he can't even be consistent in what he is saying. So he might have said that he was hurt over what you said and now seems he does not care, but none of them is really true. He is probably upset about a lot of things, and does not know where those angers and sense of insecurity, hurt, etc. come from... because he would not stop and look at himself and question "maybe my own choices...?".

I just updated my post, but my therapist told me to focus on myself, rather than WH. I see that you are doing the same thing, but your WH is not rational and thinking straight, try not to take his words too personally. None makes sense.

Take care,
Milk

Thanks, Milk. Don't know why these random thoughts, things
said months ago, and little things that don't make sense
keep coming to mind. IC suggested journaling, in the form
of a list of questions, and writing a letter to WH (not to
be sent) when I feel like I can't get a thought out of my
head. Sometimes I just "push" it away, but other times I
can't get rid of it. Guess that must be a process that takes
a long time, just like not thinking of H when I hear a song
we liked, a show or movie he loved, something funny the dog
does that I'd like to share, or any number of other things
that remind me of H.

Didn't have any other job searching to do today, so have
been working on some family tree research (my hobby).
I have SO much info to enter into my database that it could
be a full-time job. I get more info and inquiries from other
researchers all the time so never get totally caught up, but
it is fun. Too bad it doesn't pay and have benefits !!

Hope your day and the new job are going well~
Slammed