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dewt #1587432 03/22/06 09:48 PM
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So it is basically an intervention. Cool.

dewt #1587433 03/22/06 09:52 PM
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hey guys,
I read all your posts. i already had a talk with WH. I did tell him I will postpone the selling of the house, we are OK financially, no problems there - he did tell me Sunday that he will move out both keep depositing his paycheck in our joint account because everything he has is ours and maybe he will come back he doesn't know yet. They met this week I know for sure because he has a way of showing it I can feel it, and every time he goes to see her phones me and asks me if I am OK, it's something I know. Back to the disscusion, unfortunately I am weak in front of him and start crying all the time. I told him I care about this M and somehow I want to save it, I want to do everything to save it for me, for my son and for him as well so I asked him not to contact us the first week he is out, I told him to take the papers with him, read them (both the separation papers and the real estate ones are sitting on the coffee table for over a week for him to read and somehow he has no time to do it - what is this telling me - more signals from him?)and come back after a week and lets discuss it. I asked him again what is in Adrian's WW mind why is she doing all these to all of us? He told me he doesn't know and he knows that everybody is tired of this already. I asked him you still want to live with her, do you.And he told me he will not answer this question anymore, because I know the answer. That's the discussion for tonight.
Because you all know the story and I feel we are in it all together and you guys are a great support, if Adrian does not mind I will stay on this tread (just don't have the energy to start another one). Let me know if I can stay.

boby #1587434 03/22/06 10:07 PM
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boby,

Yes please stay here. Your WH has no clue what he wants. You do need to learn some boundaries. You need to learn to appear strong even when your legs are shaking beneath you. First step is to decide if you want to try to save the marriage even though there is no guarantee. It sound like maybe you already made that choice. You WH and adrianc's WW are really in a mess and they know it. They just have not yet figured out the simple solution to their problem because their brains are jello.

Read Surviving an Affair and try to get a better understanding of what your WH is going through right now. Know your enemy - so to speak. And please please keep posting. You are doing great. How is your son?

boby #1587435 03/22/06 10:07 PM
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oh, I forgot, I also told him that we both worked to hard to get were we are and I don't want to ruin it. We are only for 7 year in Canada and we got far away. He agreed with me. Even in this crazy times we pulled together financially (me beeing on maternity leave I only get EI), he agreed with me again. I started crying and he did not come to hug me this time that's how I know they met this week (maybe I am wrong, I don't know). After I start crying the discussion is over.

boby #1587436 03/22/06 10:10 PM
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Lets hear from adrian as well, if he tells me I can stay them I will stay. My son is doing great, thanks for asking. he is growing well, he is the joy of my life.

boby #1587437 03/22/06 10:16 PM
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boby,

"unfortunately I am weak in front of him and start crying all the time."

You are not being weak, boby. You are being honest. That's my opinion.

"I told him to take the papers with him, read them" Can you sneak in some printouts about Emotional Needs and recovering your marriage from this site? In between, of course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(((((boby)))) <--hugs

Adrian...can you give boby your copy of SAA?

Wish I could hear from you, Adrian. I'm getting nervous!

Traic...I smile inside hearing you love your WW all over again. Happens. Really does. I still believe you choose to love. I'm smiling because of your choice...which take awhile to feel...like ripples reaching shore.

Dylan...I KNEW you were out there praying and cheering them on. I could feel it. I don't think boby is wrong about presence in contact this week. What do you think?

John is in T.O. My dyslexia reaches to acronyms. I thought you meant he was OT...other toilet. LOL.

LA

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I would love boby to stay on my thread. She was, is and will always be my friend. Come to think about it I know boby before I knew my WW, right boby? On top of that it’s better if we all are literally on the same page.


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Wish I could hear from you, Adrian. I'm getting nervous!
LA, did you really think you could get rid of me that easily? I am BACK!!! And tougher then ever!
I was just busy going to the mall with WW. Hello, hello! I am spending time with my WW! Just the two of us. We gave each other UA! We sat down at food court and had a Starbucks coffee/frappuccino/white chocolate or whatever the heck it was (expensive anyways) and talked about everything/nothing but no relationship issues. I asked her what she thought about going to Romania for 1 month to relax. She rejected it, reason being she couldn’t take that much time off work. I tried to explain her that she could get unpaid vacation due to medical reasons (this can happen) but she said NO. After that we went to the store that was basically the purpose of the mall visit. I bought the leather jacket I saw and liked weeks ago. It was on sale! I thanked my WW after that (that was our routine every time after one of us got something new) except that there was no kiss involved… like it used to be. Damn! It’s OK. I like the jacket. I’ll wear it tomorrow. I feel like a tough guy when I put it on. Yeah, baby!

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You are not being weak, boby. You are being honest. That's my opinion.
LA, you told me the same thing and I am glad I believed you because you were right.

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Adrian...can you give boby your copy of SAA?
I don’t know about that… I borrowed it to someone… WW… It doesn’t look that she’s interested in it so I’ll see what I can do.

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Am I too wrapped up in your life, or what?
Yes, you are, and I am sooooo glad!



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I like boby being in this thread but there are also issues she may feel more comfortable dealing with apart.

I think I know boby. She’ll be comfortable here because she’s got nothing to hide and she wants to know the truth.


I am against the idea of having a discussion among the four of us. I can’t have a rational conversation with my WW, why would I want to bring in the picture another brainless person? It won’t get us anywhere. It’ll only bring frustration, anger and disappointment to me and boby. Don’t need that.

I believe that if the OM moves out he’ll be back in no time. He’s too dependent on boby. I know that. Right boby? It won’t be long before this A will be over. I was told to bring boby on MB because with her here, getting advices, we’ll make it. I believe it. And thanks to boby, my thread bumped up to page 33!


I just spoke with my mother and I am down because her older brother who lives in Romania had a heart attack and is currently in the hospital. I am very sad… Lots of memories come back in my mind. He taught me how to drive a car. I pray for him.

refresh #1587439 03/22/06 11:58 PM
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"On top of that it’s better if we all are literally on the same page." Page 33 to be exact. I adore your humor, Adrian. Tough Leather Adrian, even. Who's funny. Very funny.

Great to know your thoughts, get my smiles from you being you (what, you thought I was altruistic?)...and see your post.

I flashed back to January, at the coffee shop and think this is just great, your time at the mall. Pencil in more.

boby...no relationship talks really help. There's a policy of undivided attention (UA) here on MB which really saved my marriage. Sounds crazy, crazy like a crazy ivan (Traic), but in Plan A, I dated my WH. Similar to what Adrian did tonight (which takes courage and dedication, no small feat)...only my WH HATED talking...so we went and played pool, darts, air hockey, out to dinner...reminded us of how we used to be, long ago. Doesn't cure, but it helps.

Adrian...prayers and beliefs...that this is a good thing for your uncle, whom you love and appreciate, because it can be small, like an indicator of something that will save his life. Hold all the fear and know it is there because you care, acknowledge it, do not add to it by predicting tomorrow.

Kind of what I've been saying about your Plan A, huh?

I hear you don't want to do a sit down with the four of you...what do you think of MY idea, instead?

I believe the same of both your WS...about the whole fantasy of moving out and the reality of moving back. I hear you believe that because boby's WH depends on her. I think you mean that she provides for a lot of his ENs. Which means he loves her. So yeah, I agree. :::elbowing you in the side:::

Tough guy outside, real human inside.

Kudos on a great day...reaching page 33 (why???), boby's arrival and you continuing a splendid Plan A...oh, and that new belief you have...what was it...hmmm...oh yeah...THE AFFAIR WILL END!!

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I adore your humor, Adrian. Tough Leather Adrian, even. Who's funny. Very funny.
You think I’m funny. I appreciate that. A lot! I’ve always liked to be able to make people laugh. Yesterday, one of my coworkers (nice guy), whom I borrowed the movie Office Space (comedy), asked me what happened (I guess he saw my non happy face). He said he didn’t want to see that face, he wanted to see Adrian’s Office Space face… I realized that I wasn’t me anymore, the funny guy who got along with everybody at work. I gotta do something about that.

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I flashed back to January, at the coffee shop and think this is just great, your time at the mall. Pencil in more.

Would you believe me if I told you I forgot I had that conversation with my WW back in January? I believe it’s a good sign. If I was able to forget that, it means that I’d be able to go over and forgive/forget certain things, right?

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You said you had considered the four of you sitting down to talk. I envisioned something different...you, your son, Adrian, DDs, and inlaws all together in his livingroom, along with BIL and SIL, when WW comes home from work. Then, same group at your home when WH comes home from work.

I don’t know what to say. I’ll have to think about it. My instinct tells me that it won’t do any good, IMO. boby? What do you think?

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Kudos on a great day...reaching page 33 (why???), boby's arrival and you continuing a splendid Plan A...oh, and that new belief you have...what was it...hmmm...oh yeah...THE AFFAIR WILL END!!
I have never had any doubt the A will end after you posted on my original thread...

refresh #1587441 03/23/06 12:53 AM
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Won't do any good? Is that response-based thinking? Future predicting? Or is the reward within the action?

I ask you, good man...really...

Wow, I suddenly was a puffed up, bureaucratic Mr. Potts from It's a Wonderful Life. How'd that happen?

I need sleep.

Oh! Look at that...your last line. Just read it. Now I'm a deflated floating balloon, all blubbery and mush. Ahhhh. AWWWHHHHHH. Gosh darn dang it, you Romanians.

On that supreme note...good night.

LA

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boby,

Please post what the OM's parents (your in laws) had to say about his A.

refresh #1587443 03/23/06 01:03 AM
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Won't do any good? Is that response-based thinking? Future predicting? Or is the reward within the action?
I guess I had too many beers tonight...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

refresh #1587444 03/23/06 01:08 AM
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Tonight, after we got home from the mall, I just felt that I took my W (not my WW) in my arms. I’ve done it and just as I’ve expected I’ve gotten no feedback. She was juts a stone cold WW… I wonder where my W is?

refresh #1587445 03/23/06 02:29 AM
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Hey everybody, I'm back...

I've just read everything an ish 2 inna morning... not sure if I should post...

...but I may forget everything I want to say by tomorrow...

Well, I'll just be blunt...

I think getting everyone together would be a disaster. At best it's a massive risk with wildly unpredictable consequences.

I think if Boby were to do a good and strategic Plan A, this affair would be so dead so quick everybody's head would be spinning. Ok, well maybe not that quick... but pretty quick.

I think Adrian's wife will be slower to come around. Without an affair partner, I think she'd honestly start into withdrawal. I think if Adrian managed to do a REAL SOLID Plan A, WW would come around in baby steps. This would be tough on you, Adrian, but at least there's no active affair.

I'm really glad you are here, Boby... I witnessed Dylan's little dance number when she read your email... Then I read it myself and did one of my own. I think if anyone gets a nomination for best writer, it should be you, Boby!

I'm glad you feel comfortable here at MB, and I think you'll find some tools here to help yourself write a happy ending to your story.

I don't think sharing a thread is the greatest plan. For now, as a kind of introduction get up-to-date thing... I suppose that's fine...

Buuuuttt....

When you get down to it, dealing with infidelity is a highly intense, profoundly emotional experience. It's also very personal. Boby and Adrian know each other well, live close to each other, are both sharing a similar experience... this is pretty dangerous territory. I think some cross posting is good, cause keeping informed would be a HUGE advantage to both of them. But I believe each should have a personal thread that the other promises not to read or even open.

Call me paranoid, but I've been here a long time and seen a lot of unexpected and yet totally predictable things.

So now I have to go to sleeeeeeeeeeeppp.....

Because I just wrote a whole other part to this post, but forgot to type it...

night all...

John

dewt #1587446 03/23/06 07:55 AM
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good morning.
so I guess, at least for now i will stay here, I was sure Adrian would let me stay (we do know each other for some time - I met him before I met WH). WEboth have the same goal save our marriages (all our friends think we are stupid, we should just divorce and get over with it - but not us we want to sa ve our marriages). Adrian was right he is dependent on me, until last month he did not know were his underware is.

Our relationship is a little different then Adrian's is. We do talk a lot, we talk, we talk (I told you that Adrian).But he is still very much in love and doen't know how it happened. On the other hand he loves me too.

The in laws almost had a heart attack. We spoke for over an hour on the phone and my MIL was keep saying believe me I know my son it was an accident, pleasea don't leave him, please don't leave him. I told her he is the one leaving me. My FIL wants to have a talk with my WH (he had the same experience when he was yonger and he did tell my WH once not to make the same mistake he did) I don't think this conversation will ever take place.

The email I wrote to Adrian's WW (trust me guys I am not a writer) it was after I told my self everything is over, I gave him back his wedding band and he gave me back his, they both sit on the coffee table - near the papers he has to sign, I wasn't angry, just really, really sad.
John, I will stay here for now, it is a lots of personal information (a lots of it we share over the phone anyways)but I think we can do this together. My WH and his WW are on the phone all the time telling each other every little detail of our lives, we were close these month too and I think it helped both of us. What do you think Adrian?
OK, so let me stay and will see how it goes, if it helps us or not.

boby #1587447 03/23/06 09:18 AM
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As I said, I don't mind if boby stays on my thread.

refresh #1587448 03/23/06 09:45 AM
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Dewt's back....:)

so back to 'being me'....

hi Boby!!...it's me, Dylan...

I found these for you and like I did for Adrian...I'll put them here for you to read....


Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.
~~Buddha
soulloss #1587449 03/23/06 09:46 AM
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Plan A


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....is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.

Last edited by soulloss; 03/23/06 09:55 AM.

Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.
~~Buddha
soulloss #1587450 03/23/06 09:54 AM
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and yes, even MORE for you to read....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B.

Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?

While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."

As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. Marriage, on the other hand, especially with children, has many factors that motivate couples to restore their passion for each other after passion has waned. So when passion is gone from an affair, a wayward spouse is usually motivated to return to the betrayed spouse by all of these other factors. For most, it's a logical choice.






so, Boby...if you've made it this far, you're going to want to take a break....because later, when you have a quiet block of time just for you..perhaps when your angel is napping, I want you to get your favorite cup of tea or drink.....


and I want you to read all of that again....re-read the plan A & B stuff I just posted....yes, I mean it......read it all AGAIN....


after you re-read that plan a & b stuff, maybe you'll be able to see how you can take control of this...or how you can apply it to your situation....



I know the stress you are under ...but...I hope you are remembering tot ake care of you during all this....whatever sleep you can get with a newborn....sleep when the baby sleeps is the best advice....eat..keep your nutrition good....pop in funny movies and laugh...

Last edited by soulloss; 03/23/06 09:55 AM.

Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.
~~Buddha
soulloss #1587451 03/23/06 10:06 AM
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Hi Dylan,
thank you for ypur posts.
I am kind of in plan B right now. He will move out next week, I did asked him last night for no contact for the first week, I told him " can you please not call and don't visist the first week you are out, and then come saturday and we talk and see were we stand" he told me " I have to call, I have to know how my baby is" me "your baby will be just fine, don't worry" and we left it at that.
Maybe I rushed to plan B I don't know, but this is going on for so long now, I am tired of it.

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