MelodyLane,

I have not posted for quite some time. I had decided to discontinue posting because it was not proving beneficial to the recovery process. My FWW, Penaltykill, and I seemed to spend too much time and energy "correcting and countering" each others posted information. I still read her posts and discuss some of the threads.

Reading this thread and specifically your posts, has made we want to interject. I received the phone call exposing my FWW's affair. The other BS who filled me in was to have her divorce finalized from the OM in one week. Her soon to be xWS left her for another woman. Her sole purpose of exposure was to punish and revenge against my FWW.

I later confronted this woman and "thanked" her for using me and my children as acceptable collateral damage in her acid vendetta against her soon to be ex. The harm she wrought over the very little she actually knew was disproportionately high . Since we knew each other socially and professionally, she pretended to inform me out of care; but it was pure revenge.

I write to you, MelodyLane, because you are so sure of yourself and so rightous that you do not wish to see another point of view. Since I am the one living in this S---storm, I will tell you that this is definetly a two edged weapon that cuts both ways. Who among us is the same person in our 20's, as our 30's, as our 40's? Who among us has not had recognized character flaws within ourselves that we have selfcorrected in private? Who dosen't have unflattering secrets we chose not to share?

The point being that Penaltykill attempted to change everything that allowed this affair to occur. I was too other directed at the time to recognize many of these changes for what they truly were. I can assure you 100% that our preexposure world was vastly superior to our post exposure world; that Penaltykill was much more appreciative of what she had once she ended her affair. I was so much more comfortable in my own skin and much better for all to be around.

Of course the fip side of the coin is important. The fantasy world I lived in was just that: my fantasy world. My perception of my marriage , my EN being met, my rock solid sense of self, contributed to the environment that was ripe for trouble.

We all struggle with an uncertain future. Too soon old, too late smart. I had tremendous admiration for my FWW for fending off the many, many, men who lusted after this beautiful,super-smart, fun woman. I had tremendous respect for my FWW for overcoming her very screwed up childhood; turning several cheeks to teach compassion to her children and NOT repeat the patterns of her past. PK had my full and solid trust. I loved her fully and exclusively. Now there is deminishment of all and both of us.

So as a BS that was "exposed to" I cannot say that this was a good thing. If the affair was ongoing would be different than 4 yrs later. I know that PK would turn back the clock and make a very different choice if she could. I wish I knew then what I know now about marriage, life, etc. But as Clint Eastwood said in a movie " there aint no going back and no forgetting". There aren't any doovers in life.

I feel the exposure of this selfish affair with a guy I hated to begin with, did more harm than good . It harmed my children. It harmed me and has brought me nothing but anger, remorse, depression and deminishment. I have been very close to making choices that would probably land me in prison and I wrestle every day with them. My FWW often is lower than snails--t, she reaps a very bitter harvest from these planted lies. There is no monopoly on pain and tears around here.

Pride goith before a fall and I had way too much pride. You come across with too much pride. Like all humans you may be wrong at times.

Yesterday is the unchangeable past. Tomorrow is the uncertain future. Today is a gift and that is why it is called the present. Wishing you and all of us peace!
Penaltybox

Now believer, you know that WE are responsible for this, don't you? We don't have enough funding or care enough to have a cure ready to deal with the "Free Will Choices" of people and their behaviors. It is OUR responsibility, not the individual who engages in "bad behavior" who is responsible. You just have to get your perspective right.

Group hugs and kisses anyone?

I mean, GUNS kill people, after all. People are NOT responsible for any triggers they pull themselves or who they are aiming the "instrument of death" at. It's no different with HIV/AIDS.

I'm sorry for your pain, PenaltyBox. I know how awful it is.

PenaltyBox I am really sorry that you feel you would have been better off not knowing and that your life was better when you didn't know.

Your marriage pre-knowledge was built on a fantasy. Sooner or later someone would have told you or maybe even penaltykill would have told you when the guilt destroyed her.

But please consider that if your wife chose to have an affair, there was something lacking in your marriage. The fact that you say now you would be better off not knowing leads me to think you have not addressed these underlying issues and that you have been unsucessful in building a richer more vibrant marriage. I truely believe with all my heart following MB principles will have that outcome.

Please Note: I am not in any way saying the affair was your fault but we all have to take responsibility for the state of our marriages. With affairs, ignorance is not bliss. Take the opportunity of the knowledge you now have to build a better marriage.

Well, now you can up your count to three.

I appreciate your concern for my level of pride, but it is not the issue. Nor am I wrong about this. Even Dr. Harley agrees with exposure as his articles have indicated.

But I will tell you exactly what I told your W, and that is that it is not the exposure that hurt you and your children, it was the AFFAIR. It was 4 years of lies and deceit. You are blaming the WRONG PARTY for the source of your pain. I am sorry you have bought into your wife's blameshifing and distorted thinking, but that is a reality that can't be erased.

Perhaps the OMW was a mean, vindictive *****, that does not erase the fact that it was your W who was the bad guy here. She had the affair. She decieved you for 4 years. The OMW did not do that. The OMW did nothing wrong.

If she had not had an affair with her husband, the OMW would have had nothing to tell you. But sadly, she did. She simply told you the truth, pb.

It was that TRUTH that was so painful. It is the TRUTH with which you have a contention; you and your wife chose to shoot the messenger instead. It is like the OMW has become this weird lightening rod for your pain.

But for some reason you don't want to admit that it is your wife's actions which are the real source of your pain.

Further, if you know anything about marital recovery, you know that it is impossible to build a marriage based on fraud and deceit. Perhaps you WANTED to be lied to, perhaps you didn't want to know, but that doesn't make lying right. That doesn't make adultery right. Nor does it facilitate a healthy marriage. Nor do most people WANT to be lied to.

I am sorry you felt you had to come here and defend penaltykills' indefensible position, but I don't think you will find much support for lying to victim spouses about their lives. It is simply an indefensible position despite the fact that you are one of the rare few who WANTED to be kept in a life of illusion by living a lie. Dr. Harley certainly wouldn't support your position.

I wish you the best.

Let's take a look at Dr Harley's words again:

From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.

Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

PB, don’t you see that by contending it would have been better for you to not know about your wife’s infidelity, you are telling her it’s okay to have another lover…just don’t tell me about it and make sure no one else knows? Isn’t that the effect of what you wish had not happened? What if, four years from now, she decided once again that things weren’t just right in the marriage and she chose to solve her problems by committing adultery again? Would that be okay…just so long as you didn’t have to deal with it?

You’re speculating the other betrayed spouse’s motives weren’t of the highest order. Maybe…maybe not. But...worrying about that is non-productive and tantamount to blaming the messenger for the message. The important thing is the message itself. I’m sorry, in this instance, the message was one that brought you pain. Whatever her motives were, that other betrayed spouse gave you a chance to get your marriage back on the RIGHT track without anyone living anymore lies.

Peace indeed be with you. I wish you and your wife a successful recovery and a long marriage.

penaltybox, please consider the ramifications of your words here. What you are asserting is that you don't know if it is a "good thing" for you to have all the FACTS about your own life.

You are saying that it is ok to cede the power and control of your life to another because you can't handle the truth. You are basically saying it is in your best interest to go through life living the illusion of a faithful marriage because you can't handle the truth as would any normal, rational adult.

Is that really what you mean to tell us? That you would rather live an illusion than a life that was based on the truth?

My H wasn't "defending" me. He is sincerely amazed at your level of pride and your condescending attitude. How nice it must be to be right all the time. How good of you to be able to speak directly for Dr. Harley. I am sure he appreciates it. How much do you charge for your time? Oh, right. You don't.

Perhaps if you got out a little more and got off your computer, (do you sit there all day, every day? Sure seems like it) you might see that life is not black and white. Situations vary. My H explains exactly how he feels and you tell him that he is wrong, and launch into a diatribe about how adultery is not "right". As if he said that it was.

My position is not indefensible, since there are many people aware of our situation who agree with me. They are far more knowledgable than you, and they have my respect which you certainly do not.

My H decided it's not worth another post on this thread. He was just attempting to point out that anyone, even you ML, can be wrong. Life is not black and white, shades of grey exist everywhere. My computer at work reads 17,000 shades of gray. But I agree, enough is enough.

I'm putting you on my ignore list, which is a first for me, on any board. Kindly do the same for me.

Another story of a BS that was a B*****.

Post deleted by shadpoo

penaltykill, are you saying you are "right?" hmmmm

If I am wrong, it should be easy enough to prove that, but you haven't been able to do so. And you can't, because you know I am right. There is no way to defend your position, that deceit about an affair is ok. There is no way to rationally defend your shoot the messenger approach. [blameshifting?] That position is indefensible and you are mad about it.

Of course I don't portend to speak for Dr. Harley; that is why I posted his words with a link. Sorry that makes you so angry but your anger and hostility is your own issue.

And no, I won't put you on ignore. I don't put anyone on ignore.

first i will reply to the op:
Yes I think there are sometimes reasons to not expose, however I think the situations would be very specific. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is if the OM/OW does not have a real problem with having affairs and this is just a fluke, and there are children involved, and the OW/OM spouse would go nuts if he/she found out and the marriage dies and the kids get screwed over because of it. However once the kids are out of the equation, then by all means. I would never consider keeping it a secret if there were no children.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Shadpoo, I'm going to ask you again to REread the MB policy, concepts and TOS. There is NOTHING hilarious about people trying to rebuild their lives after undergoing the devastation of an affair.

Sorry Justuss, I was referring to the arguments going on in the thread. I find some of the statements amusing. I will remove my previous post.

I have reported MelodyLane to Moderator JustUss. (TWICE tonight)
I am requesting he read through her ATTACKING posts.

If any of you find a poster writing OFFENSIVE messages, you can report her or him by clicking on the moderator's name just below this forum.

Believer, who (what BS) did you mean was a B****?
Justuss will check on that also.
I got in trouble today for using a different, perhaps even less offensive word for Melody Lane.

PK:

I gotta be honest girl, you are kinda...well...wrong here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Ms Lane did not really speak directly for Harley at all, she posted his EXACT words. What more could one ask for? There is not really any room for interpretation here. It is very clear what he means. Trust me, I don't 100% agree with the guy on other things, but on this...he is dead on.

I don't think you have an argument. I can appreciate your angst over this, and if I were the Former Wayward Spouse and I felt like you did and this thread was going on, I would be angry too...but remember, if you didn't really feel conflicted about this, you wouldn't still be here arguing the point. The facts are....your affair is the root of the issue, NOT the exposure afterward. You can slice that any way you want, you can dress it up any way you want, you can color it any way you want...but after all is said and done...that is what you are left with. You can agree or disagree with the original premise if you want, but that will NEVER change the FACTS in your case.

Goodluck

Lem

Good luck on that, Celt. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

No, I'm talking about the irony that many WS's blame the BS - and that seems to be the case here.

After I helped raise 8 kids, and my WH decided to reward me with his affair, he told everyone what a B*tch I am. The OW hates me, and I don't even know her.

For a long time, I examined our marriage to see if I really was one. But I found the love letters, cards, etc, up to 2 weeks before the affair, telling me what a good wife I was, and how much he loved me. His family says that I was the best thing that ever happened to him.

So it makes he and the OW feel better to insinuate that it is all my fault. That looks like what is going on here to me.