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#1590606 02/14/06 01:11 PM
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[color:"green"]Hi all,

I'm not always comfortable with saying something directly when it involves my emotions so I need some advice.

BF talks about how lonely he is when he walks into his empty house. He talks about getting things for his house in a way that lets me know that the things are mobile and would move to another house. He talks about moving to be with me.

He is a person that does not let go of things, and often says that he does not know if he would have the energy or the desire to recreate the special features of his house. I know that he loves his home and that it is special, but I so feel that the way he talks is a mixed message.

in other words:

"I love you, I want to be with you forever, I want to live with you, I can't bear to leave my house, I have no immediate plans to marry".

I feel very torn and unsettled when he makes statements about permanency or moving because I "know" that he is not going to move - at least not anytime soon.

How do I communicate to him that I don't especially want to talk about these future plans because they are vague and there is no time set forth. Is anyone but me uncomfortable with the notion of talking about some nebulous future without any real plan of how it would take place?

He also talks about "his" place as if it were "our" place. As in "I was thinking about solar panels to heat "our" pool and they would be portable so that we could move them to another pool."

I think after almost two years that I'm just getting tired of dating. Juggling a career, a house, three kids, and a boyfriend is draining.

What I really want to tell him is that if you feel so lonely why don't you do something about it? Make up your mind to make our relationship more permanent, sell your house, find a new house with me? I'm tired of listening to you whine about how lonely you are when your decisions are what's driving that loneliness.

I've been very tempted just to grandstand. Tell him that I am tired of dating and don't want to see him for a while until I get my own life back on track. That running around with him so much I've neglected my house and my kids and they really need to be more of a priority for me right now than he does.

Putting it like that sounds very demanding and controlling though.

Sigh.

V.[/color]

sunnyva39 #1590607 02/14/06 01:49 PM
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It seems to me that you don't like his plans (or lack thereof) but have not stated yours to him. And you are resenting him for not guessing/knowing your plans. Am I right?

What are your plans and wishes? Do you know what they are, or are you just frustrated with his but don't have a better solution?

I think the first step is to identify what it is that you want. Do you want him to move closer to you (is that realistic)? Would you consider moving closer to him? Etc. If none of it is realistic (e.g. neither of you is willing/able to compromise), are you ready to call it quits or will you continue dating?

My feeling (correct me if I am wrong) is that you have invested lots of time with this guy, but don't really have a workable arrangement for making this into a family situation. So you are tired of the dating, but not sure how to change things. Right?

If so, this is not as much of an issue of "how do I talk to him" but rather "what do we do to move forward from dating".

Just some thoughts.

AGG


AGoodGuy #1590608 02/14/06 02:11 PM
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It seems to me that you don't like his plans (or lack thereof) but have not stated yours to him. And you are resenting him for not guessing/knowing your plans. Am I right?


[color:"green"]I've told him that I am frustrated with the whole long distance situation. We've talked about buying a house together. He thought house hunting would be fun but looked for fun in "his" area which is too far from my work. My area is in the middle between our jobs and we both agree that this would be the best.

When he does something he moves very actively to get it done. This whole thing has been something that he is just playing with - all talk no action...[/color]

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What are your plans and wishes? Do you know what they are, or are you just frustrated with his but don't have a better solution?


[color:"green"]You know honestly I just want to be able to combine all the energy into something that is less effort for me - which would be not driving everywhere to have plans or be together... [/color]

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I think the first step is to identify what it is that you want. Do you want him to move closer to you (is that realistic)? Would you consider moving closer to him? Etc. If none of it is realistic (e.g. neither of you is willing/able to compromise), are you ready to call it quits or will you continue dating?


[color:"green"]The compromise was that he would move to my area. I recognise that I would be taking care of him more than he would be taking care of me and it just doesn't make sense that I would have a 1.5 hour commute while he has a 0.5 hour commute. That way we would both have a .75 hour commute.

I am almost ready to call it quits. I'm tired and feel unfulfilled because I'm not taking care of my home or my kids the way I should in order to carve out time for him.[/color]

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My feeling (correct me if I am wrong) is that you have invested lots of time with this guy, but don't really have a workable arrangement for making this into a family situation. So you are tired of the dating, but not sure how to change things. Right?


[color:"green"]I don't want to force a decision - it seems controlling, but I am tired of dating. [/color]

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If so, this is not as much of an issue of "how do I talk to him" but rather "what do we do to move forward from dating".


[color:"green"]Yes, ok - then how do we move forward from dating? [/color]

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Just some thoughts.

AGG


[color:"green"]Thanks AGG

V. [/color]

sunnyva39 #1590609 02/14/06 08:53 PM
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We've talked about buying a house together. He thought house hunting would be fun but looked for fun in "his" area which is too far from my work.

So you didn't really come up with a workable middle ground, right? You want it to be halfway, he wants it to be in his area.

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The compromise was that he would move to my area.

Is that a compromise that he agreed to?

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I'm tired and feel unfulfilled because I'm not taking care of my home or my kids the way I should in order to carve out time for him.

Oh I can definitely relate to that. And I feel that if you are not able to date and have a normal life (i.e. maintain friendships, focus on kids, keep house in order, etc), then that is not a good sign.

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I don't want to force a decision - it seems controlling, but I am tired of dating.

I dunno, there is nothing controlling about stating your wishes, boundaries, and expectations. I rather think that it's unfair to be building and harboring all the frustration and resenment without bringing it up for a serious discussion and resolution.

My personal opinion from what I read is that you have invested so much time into him that you hate to call it quits and start from scratch. I certainly understand that, but we both know that it is the worst reason to keep dating someone, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG


AGoodGuy #1590610 02/15/06 09:12 AM
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So you didn't really come up with a workable middle ground, right? You want it to be halfway, he wants it to be in his area.

[color:"green"]That is the way it seems - it is not what he has said. He agrees that my area is the only solution that makes sense for both of us. He then proceeds to find reasons not to do so - such as houses are more expensive in my area, yards are smaller, etc. True enough but it feels rather passive/aggressive...[/color]

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Is that a compromise that he agreed to?

[color:"green"]Yes. [/color]

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Oh I can definitely relate to that. And I feel that if you are not able to date and have a normal life (i.e. maintain friendships, focus on kids, keep house in order, etc), then that is not a good sign. [quote]

[color:"green"]Maybe I should back up and then "just" date. Right now I spend significant amounts of my time on the weekends spending time with him just hanging around the house - his usually. He visits me on Monday nights and hangs out at my house. I visit him on Wednesday nights and hang out at his house. If we don't see each other regularly I start to feel like my Love Bank is depleted. If I do see him regularly I don't have time for much home improvement or housework. Catch 22. He is joining me for more of my kid activities so that is gradually getting better. [/color]

[quote]I dunno, there is nothing controlling about stating your wishes, boundaries, and expectations. I rather think that it's unfair to be building and harboring all the frustration and resenment without bringing it up for a serious discussion and resolution.

[color:"green"]How many times can you bring up a request? Once or twice and then you just have to accept that your request is unlikely to get filled. [/color]

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My personal opinion from what I read is that you have invested so much time into him that you hate to call it quits and start from scratch. I certainly understand that, but we both know that it is the worst reason to keep dating someone, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

[color:"green"] I'm not just scared to start from scratch. I truly am a unique and intelligent person and I don't find many men of my intelligence level who can hold interesting conversation. I have three guy friends that are dying to date me and waiting for me to dump my BF. I'm honest enough to admit that none of them are bright enough although they are very nice guys.

I've been working on my own trust issues. BF is really a kind, tolerant, and accepting sort of person. Certainly worth an investment.

I think from what Harley writes that it is common in a relationship for one person to want commitment more than the other at some point. I don't think that BF is uncommitted. I think that he is afraid that if he moves he will lose contact with all of the friends that he has kept for 20+ years. They would then have to drive 40 minutes to come and see us.

Hey when you think about it - how fair is it that not wanting to ask a friend to drive 40 minutes is more important than cementing a relationship that will fulfill all your needs? Is it fair that I drive 25 miles one-way several times a week versus asking a friend to visit with you 35 miles away once a month? Or even twice a month?

V.[/color]

sunnyva39 #1590611 02/15/06 03:27 PM
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I don't think that BF is uncommitted. I think that he is afraid that if he moves he will lose contact with all of the friends that he has kept for 20+ years. They would then have to drive 40 minutes to come and see us.

Hey when you think about it - how fair is it that not wanting to ask a friend to drive 40 minutes is more important than cementing a relationship that will fulfill all your needs? Is it fair that I drive 25 miles one-way several times a week versus asking a friend to visit with you 35 miles away once a month? Or even twice a month?

So this sounds like the heart of the problem. He is happy with you (and with the way things are), and does not want to change anything. You are happy with him, but not with the way things are. Whenever you try to negotiate a change, he agrees, but then does not follow through. Right?

If so, then it seems like this is where you need to decide if you are willing to continue like this, because since he is happy with everything, he is not likely to change.

You started this post asking "how do I tell him to change"; I think you have it backwards. He won't change, because he is happy with the arrangement. The real question should be "are you willing to live with this arrangement, and if not, what are your options"? (note - expecting him to change is not one of your options, that is passing the buck).

I get the impression that you keep hoping that he will suddenly change, and I see no reason to expect that. So, are you willing to take him as he is, or not? I don't mean the "nice, intelligent guy" that you mention, I mean the "passive aggressive selfish guy" that you are also describing.

AGG


AGoodGuy #1590612 02/15/06 04:32 PM
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So this sounds like the heart of the problem. He is happy with you (and with the way things are), and does not want to change anything. You are happy with him, but not with the way things are. Whenever you try to negotiate a change, he agrees, but then does not follow through. Right?

[color:"green"]Sort of. The part about not following through is only about a move. There have been past issues that he resolved to do something about, wavered for awhile, then moved on, so all hope is not lost.

He is not happy with the way things are now. He is lonely more than I am and misses me more than I miss him.[/color]

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If so, then it seems like this is where you need to decide if you are willing to continue like this, because since he is happy with everything, he is not likely to change.

[color:"green"]Well he's not happy with everything.
He misses me a lot and is lonely. [/color]

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You started this post asking "how do I tell him to change"; I think you have it backwards. He won't change, because he is happy with the arrangement. The real question should be "are you willing to live with this arrangement, and if not, what are your options"? (note - expecting him to change is not one of your options, that is passing the buck).


[color:"green"]He might change. He's not happy. My options are to stop going over his house. This is NOT a 50/50 arrangement. That is what he enjoys - I come over at least 50% of the time. (mostly 80% me driving usually) That could stop. I could just do my thing at my house and expect that he could come over if he wants to see me. I have three kids to take care of - he has a dog. [/color]

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I get the impression that you keep hoping that he will suddenly change, and I see no reason to expect that. So, are you willing to take him as he is, or not? I don't mean the "nice, intelligent guy" that you mention, I mean the "passive aggressive selfish guy" that you are also describing.

AGG


[color:"green"] Hmmmm. I tend to attract very selfish guys. I'm scared that he is p/a and/or selfish.

V. [/color]

sunnyva39 #1590613 02/15/06 09:11 PM
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[color:"green"] Is anyone but me uncomfortable with the notion of talking about some nebulous future without any real plan of how it would take place?

Absolutely!

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[color:"green"]He might change. He's not happy. My options are to stop going over his house. This is NOT a 50/50 arrangement. That is what he enjoys - I come over at least 50% of the time. (mostly 80% me driving usually) That could stop. I could just do my thing at my house and expect that he could come over if he wants to see me. I have three kids to take care of - he has a dog. [/color]

This seems like a good idea to me. You can stop neglecting your house and kids and if he wants to spend time with you, he can do so by helping you with what you need to get accomplished. This will also give him a better taste of how much traveling you have been doing all along. With you doing most of the travelling so far, it doesn't sound as if he's been inconvenienced, so moving has not been a priority to him.

This seems (to me) like a natural adjustment that would just happen over time. Is there a reason you haven't balanced your time before now, without making it a conscious decision to do so?

AFS #1590614 02/16/06 10:05 AM
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This seems like a good idea to me. You can stop neglecting your house and kids and if he wants to spend time with you, he can do so by helping you with what you need to get accomplished. This will also give him a better taste of how much traveling you have been doing all along. With you doing most of the travelling so far, it doesn't sound as if he's been inconvenienced, so moving has not been a priority to him.

[color:"green"]I think this is right - it is what I concluded. I think it has been very easy and convenient for him. [/color]

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This seems (to me) like a natural adjustment that would just happen over time. Is there a reason you haven't balanced your time before now, without making it a conscious decision to do so?


[color:"green"]He's adjusted somewhat and spends more time at my place when I have the children. His dog is a problem because it is used to a yard and is pretty bad about barking and also is not used to "going" on command, didn't go outside, and ended up messing in my house.

The other reason the time was not more balanced is because he has a pool and it is almost a no-brainer that the kids would have a good time swimming...
He is funny too in that he was trying this winter to plan a playroom with video arcade and air hockey in an effort to make his house fun for children.
A very nice gesture, but still an effort to have us over his place and he not have to go anywhere to enjoy our company.

I know that it is odd to complain about someone trying to make your children welcome in their home - and honestly on one level I really appreciate that he is making an effort to create a family style life. My problem with this is that it is still a life convenient for him and not me. When I spend a lot of time over at his place I still don't get shopping and laundry done. Something every single parent has to deal with on the weekends when weeknights are filled with the children's activities.

V.[/color]

sunnyva39 #1590615 02/16/06 12:24 PM
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You still seem to be skirting around the big elephant in the room: you do not want to move to his area, and he does not want to move from his area. No amount of making his house kid friendly or you taking care of him at your house will change that, because you are still not in agreement on where to live.

IMO, after two years of dating a person, you should have some agreement on such a huge issue. If you do not, then what will change in the next year, two years, etc? Unless you are willing to date like this till your kids leave home.

AGG


AGoodGuy #1590616 02/17/06 12:05 AM
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So, if you feel so dissatisfied with the relationship, take a look at what you are saying.

Exactly what is it that you are getting from this relationship? Why are you still in it? What needs is he meeting?

If you find the list too short, you need to consider the fact that it very well may not be meeting your needs.

It is better to be happy alone than unhappy with someone else.

AGoodGuy #1590617 02/17/06 10:15 AM
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You still seem to be skirting around the big elephant in the room: you do not want to move to his area, and he does not want to move from his area. No amount of making his house kid friendly or you taking care of him at your house will change that, because you are still not in agreement on where to live.


[color:"green"]Actually I thought that the purpose of this thread was to understand how to confront this elephant - maybe a plan B for dating. I've done my plan A for the last two years - I've shown you who I am and what I can be for you. Now you need to decide. [/color]

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IMO, after two years of dating a person, you should have some agreement on such a huge issue. If you do not, then what will change in the next year, two years, etc? Unless you are willing to date like this till your kids leave home.

AGG


[color:"green"] No I don't want to date like this till my kids leave home. I'm tired of running around feeling like every minute I am rushed because I am on my way somewhere.

Maybe the compromise would be that I should only see him on weekends. Monday Wednesday and Friday nights are my own from now on. (He comes over Monday, I go over on Wednesday and usually Friday too.)

V.[/color]

cinderella #1590618 02/17/06 10:24 AM
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So, if you feel so dissatisfied with the relationship, take a look at what you are saying.


[color:"green"]I'm saying I'm tired of running around dating someone - my life is just too packed and I'm exhausted. [/color]

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Exactly what is it that you are getting from this relationship? Why are you still in it? What needs is he meeting?


[color:"green"]I've never felt as compatible with someone. I'm still in it because when he meets my needs he does it very well. I find it almost effortless to meet his needs. He meets my need for conversation, affection, and recreational companionship. He falls short meeting SF and domestic support. Lately when he is over he has been meeting the DS need - so I know that if we were together all the time that would work out. [/color]

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If you find the list too short, you need to consider the fact that it very well may not be meeting your needs.


[color:"green"] I don't think that anyone can meet their boyfriend's needs or GFs needs completely. It requires more time than most people have in their busy lives if they are separated the way we are. [/color]

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It is better to be happy alone than unhappy with someone else.


[color:"green"]Amen sista'. I was thinking of that the other day. Some of my happiest moments are when I finish a home project - which is why it bugs me so much to neglect my home.

V. [/color]

sunnyva39 #1590619 02/17/06 03:44 PM
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I don't think you can do a Plan B for dating. It sounds like what you are saying is that you feel that you gave and gave for the past two years, and he has not. So now you are going to stop giving and see if he steps up to the plate.

Of course the risk is that he may then wonder what happened to the nice giving lady he grew to know and love - if you are no longer that woman, will he still like you as much?

Now, if you are saying that you are not the giving woman he grew accustomed to, then that's fine, you might as well become who you really are.

But, if you are saying that you will intentionally become less giving than you normally are in order to get him to do something, then it sounds manipulative to me.

Instead of that, why not have a chat once and for all and decide if he will meet you halfway, and then do something about it? And if he won't, maybe it's time to move on?

I feel that you are doing a lot of rationalizing for continuing this relationship even though it appears to be very unsatisfying to you.

AGG


AGoodGuy #1590620 02/17/06 04:30 PM
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I don't think you can do a Plan B for dating. It sounds like what you are saying is that you feel that you gave and gave for the past two years, and he has not. So now you are going to stop giving and see if he steps up to the plate.

[color:"green"]I disagree. I do think you can do a plan B for dating. A lot of people break up when the other person is not willing to commit any further. The relationship gets stagnant. Telling someone that you love them but you are unwilling to continue this relationship as it is may be just setting a boundary. [/color]

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Of course the risk is that he may then wonder what happened to the nice giving lady he grew to know and love - if you are no longer that woman, will he still like you as much?


[color:"green"]I am a nice person - a very giving person. If he believes that it was all an act like this statement implies, then I'll be glad to show him the door. And no, he won't like it when he gets cut off - that is the point. [/color]

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Now, if you are saying that you are not the giving woman he grew accustomed to, then that's fine, you might as well become who you really are.


[color:"green"]I am who I am. I'm not a phony. [/color]

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But, if you are saying that you will intentionally become less giving than you normally are in order to get him to do something, then it sounds manipulative to me.


[color:"green"]I'm exhausted - I'd rather think of it as self-caring. [/color]

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Instead of that, why not have a chat once and for all and decide if he will meet you halfway, and then do something about it? And if he won't, maybe it's time to move on?


[color:"green"]That is the purpose of this thread - to get ideas for this. [/color]

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I feel that you are doing a lot of rationalizing for continuing this relationship even though it appears to be very unsatisfying to you.

AGG


[color:"green"]What if you met Ms. Right? What if things were wonderful. What if two years later you started feeling that you wanted to see her every night and share your life with her and your kids? What if Ms. Right was content to live separate from you? What if you were just physically tired from everything you have to do every week?

What would you do?

V. [/color]

sunnyva39 #1590621 02/17/06 07:02 PM
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[color:"green"]I disagree. I do think you can do a plan B for dating. A lot of people break up when the other person is not willing to commit any further. [/color]

OK, I misunderstood. If by "Plan B" you mean breaking up, then yes, of course you can do that. I thought you meant that you simply want to be less forthcoming, to only go up on weekends and not during the week - IOW, give less. Thanks for clarifying.

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Instead of that, why not have a chat once and for all and decide if he will meet you halfway, and then do something about it? And if he won't, maybe it's time to move on?


[color:"green"]That is the purpose of this thread - to get ideas for this. [/color]

Ideas for what? Why can't you tell him what you said here - "I want to know if/when you will move halfway between us, or if you will never want to move". If he agrees, determine a date, and stick to it. If he doesn't, well, you have your answer.

[color:"green"]What if you met Ms. Right? .... What if Ms. Right was content to live separate from you? What if you were just physically tired from everything you have to do every week?
[/color]

Hehe, well then she wouldn't be Ms. Right, would she? I have dated many women who seemed like Ms. Right at first, but as time went on I realized that we would not have a happy life together - so I broke up with them. That is why we date (or at least I do) - to find someone with whom I am happy. If you are not happy, exhausted, and can't resolve big issues, then why date?

AGG



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