No one drives anybody from the boards. Mel, Pep, Lem and everyone else is capable of making their own choices. If someone chooses not to post, that is their choice, no one elses. I sincerely doubt that anyone has lost posting privileges as Tempest suggested was possible...not over differences of opinion.

Ba109,

On your reasoning, a WS never drives a BS out of a marriage, since the BS can make his or her own choices. Huh?

same thing you did Penalty Kill on Tempest thread- so much for the pot calling the kettle black now, huh?

It is ok for you to do it, but not someone else- gol figure.

That is exactly the issue.

The reason that Melody and others were so forcefull in their posts was because they were supporting the MB principles.

Those of you that only want justification for your actions and who really don't care about the MB principles have done a fine job of running off some very good posters.

It is so very sad that a poster on a board based on MB principles can no longer present the MB principles with out being called on the carpet. However those of you that come here saying that MB principles only work sometimes, don't really need to be followed, can post all you want and turn into tattletales when posters don't justify your way of thinking.

This of course is my opinion, however it is not mine alone.

Please note this is moveforward not keepmovin4wrod- I do not want my opiinons confused with that posters opinions as we differ greatly.

I am trying to tread very carefully here, so as not to inflame, but to explain.

My H and I *are* in counseling w/S. Harley. We did this at the suggestion of a poster from Recovery, and have been pleased.

I do think that MB principles can *and have been* interpreted differently by different posters. I seem to remember a thread about honesty in all cases, not too long ago, in which there was disagreement. Lemonman's thread brought up an ethical question that is not addressed in any of Harley's writings. (I did not even read the "marriage terrorism" thread) All my H and I did was to explain what happened in OUR case. Things proceeded to go downhill from that point on, and I'm not going to engage in finger pointing here.

As I said, I am treading very carefully, and I think that Tempest's warning to *all* posters was spot-on - and I include myself in the all posters category. I know that I have taken great pains lately to be much more careful in what I say. I REGRET what I posted on the Tempest thread. I have no problem admitting I am wrong, and that comment *was* wrong.

Arkie,

Have I told you lately how much I love you?

Thank you hunny. Words well spoken, as always.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN..

THE FIRST LADY OF COUNTRY MUSIC..

YES THIS YANKEE GURL SAID COUNTRY MUSIC...

MISS LORRETTA LYNN...


Have I told you lately that I love you?
Could I tell you once again somehow?
Have I told with all my heart and soul how I adore you?
Well darling I’m telling you now

My heart would break in two if I should lose you
I’m no good without you anyhow
And have I told you lately that I love you
Well darling I’m telling you now

Have I told you lately when I’m sleeping
Every dream I dream is you somehow?
Have I told you why the nights are long
When you're not with me?
Well darling I’m telling you now

My heart would break in two if I should lose you
I’m no good without you anyhow
And have I told you lately that I love you
Well darling I’m telling you now


LORRETTA LYNN IS SO DAYUM CUTE..AND SHES FROM KENTUCKY..WHICH PRACTICALLY IN THE NORTH!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

ARK^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The fact that Mel, Lem and possibly Pep have disappeared is a big deal to me.
This is big deal for me as well ML was one of the first to reply to me, made me feel welcome and did get the old 2X4 out occaisionally as required. I have always looked for LEM and PEP's posts as the were full of hard earned wisdom. Their insight and input, while not always popular, will be hard to replace and they are a wealth of knowledge. It is a shame they have been driven away.

1. Very true especially if a WS is posting

2. See 1. above

3-7 are all valid. Essentially my point is Quit whining about advice or guidance that you don't agree with. If you don't agree don't do it. If you don't agree with someone's opinion so be it, buit they don't have to be reported to the mods because they don't agree with you and may have offended you. A lot of people will suffer at the loss of the above mentioned people and a few others who may leave as well. I don't want to suffer and lose the widom of these posters because a few people are acting childish and having a tantrum because someone tool the high road and chastised them a bit.

Mel, Lem, Pep, and any others that have left that I haven't mentioned, Please come back, more of us need you here than you will ever know.

Just my .02

If you don't like my .02, comment to me, not the mods, If you do like my opinion comment here or anywhere else on this board. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

As much as I love and miss Mel and Pep, I realize that they are adults..have to do what's necessary to take care of themselves and have a right to make choices that are in their own best interests. If they choose to come back, they certainly will..

I pray that they do..but understand that they may not...

We all have to go on...and keep them in our hearts and prayers...

That's my opinion....

What do you mean by 'valid'? Who's doing the judging? Do you really mean that you would not form the same conclusion yourself given the same facts? In other words, that the opinion is not a valid one for your world model.

Not all people have the same world view as you. Their opinion is 'valid' for the their own model.


'Stupid'? This is a DJ. The person's opinion might disagree considerably from your own, but that does not make it 'stupid'. Having others agree with your opinion does not confirm that you're 'right' and therefore 'not-stupid', it simply confirms that others share your view.


Should one? Are any of us, as adults, entitled to be disrespectful to others, under any provocation? One should be able to say that one holds a different opinion, and state our own view. To diminish the other's argument by attacking their self-esteem is a child's approach.

IMO, of course. You are welcome to challenge my opinion.

TA

That was a quote to Ark from Celt06.

I would like to respond.

Yes, that 2X4 (berating the poster) that was used on me by Ark, Lemonman, Melody, Pep and others helped me to take action and do the most important part of breaking up my fws EA. EXPOSING the affair.

Sometimes with posters, what they need is a look at themselves in the mirror.

Sometimes, 2X4's are needed for hard headed gals, like me.

Sometimes, the posters need that extra push to encourage them to do what needs to be done but they needed that extra edge that comes from the sarcastic comments which angers them into action.

In my case, the 2X4's that Melody, Pep, Lemonman and so many others used on me, resulted in me, exposing my fws EA. I exposed.

I needed the 2X4's to gain the courage to expose the EA.

One of the great things about this board is the different approaches of the experienced posters.

We need all of these approaches.

I needed the acid dripped sarcasam of Lemonman.

I found comfort and encouragement in PureBob's story of his fws betrayal and their recovery.

I gained perspective from Ark's pearls of sand, wisdom.

I needed, Melodies, "Pick yourself up, and dust your pants off", no-nonsense approach.

All of these posters helped me to find courage, comfort and inspiration to forge on, and do the right thing.

So, yes Celtic06,

I Needed those 2X4's.


Sincerely,
K.D.'s Heartbreak

I know, I can't be the only one that has needed that extra push.

I just wish everyone would cool their jets over Melody. She is a good person and is entitled to her opions. She has been a great help to many perople here. It is your indiviual choice to listen to her -respond to her -or tell her in a ice way that you do not want her advise. We are all different people here. But this constant subject being tossed around day after day has to end. We have much more important issues at hand. That is the ones that has formed his board. To help others dealing with A's. So let us end this and leave things be. If you do not like what you have heard from others then please tell them in a nice way folds and ask them ot dismiss writing to you is all. We all rub each other different ways. But hanging someone out for the crows has got to stop. Please! This is getting tiresome. Melody I do think you are great as well as alot of others here and she has helped me so much and many others. But unlike me others have been helped by other wise people here it is a matter of choice is all. Thanks to all the people here who have reached out to me I thank-you.

If you don't like what a poster is saying then put them on your "Ignore" list. Otherwise remember that we are all human and we all have our own experiences mixed with knowledge of the MB prinicipals makes this board so wonderful. Many of us have benefitted from a occasional hard swung 2x4 from someone here. It may hurt at the time but it sure helps to wake some people up.

Arkie, I think you are wonderful. Hi Sus!

[/quote]

There are people who hold the opinion that the Holocaust never occurred. Are we to defend this as being intellectually equivalent to the opinion that the Holocaust did occur? Would reasonable people be able to say that holding the opinion that millions of Jews didn't die is holding an invalid opinion?

Unless one wants to assert that opining the Holocaust never occurred is also a "valid" opinion, then we could start from there and acknowledge that there are SOME opinions that are invalid.


Would you assess any opinions as being bereft of intellectual support? Are people saying "You disagree with me therefore your opinion is stupid?" I think the truth is that no one has said such.

Stupid is defined as: "lacking intelligence or reason" and "marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting. "

People have said that there can be opinions so bereft of reasoned support that they shouldn't be given much, if any credence, and summed that up by saying "some opinions are stupid." And there have been people who have asserted their opinion in this marketplace of ideas who have said they have no need to support their opinion with reason.


Should one? Are any of us, as adults, entitled to be disrespectful to others, under any provocation? One should be able to say that one holds a different opinion, and state our own view. To diminish the other's argument by attacking their self-esteem is a child's approach.

IMO, of course. You are welcome to challenge my opinion.

TA [/quote]

If someone tells me that rape victims bring it upon themselves, I have little problem saying, "that's a stupid opinion." I think the reality is that we all have heard opinions that we thought were stupid, we just may be uncomfortable calling things bluntly.

mouseling

The following is just my opinion.

There are a number of infidleity-related boards out here on the internet. I've posted on a few and read on many others. The vast majority are a place where people (mostly BS) vent a lot and comfort one another but nothing ever seems to get RESOLVED.

I gave up on those boards when I came here and saw there was a structure and framework for saving a marriage here. There were real people here, just like me, who had saved their marriages employing these principles. I gained insight into how to save my own marrigae along with the empathy for my pain, the push to "just do it", and the examples of victories.

I marveled at the time some experienced posters put in here. I appreciated their giving of their time and experience to help others. I see far fewer of them than I used to with the result that many of the newer people on this board now miss valuable advice. I see many more instances of new folks having to bump up their own threads because they just aren't getting many responses. And please, I am not knocking the efforts of those who do reply with advice - they are just spread much thinner than before. For myself, my own experience level is so basic and limited that all I'm able to offer is comfort.

So anyway. I guess I'm just saying that we've lost valuable resources. I personally feel the loss.

UVA,

Wow! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> How you got this from what I posted is beyond me. I do agree with your statement though. Choices are sometimes tough. Blame is always easy.

No one can gets to drive my train unless I hand them the cute little engineers cap. Interpret from that what you will.

The politically correct "be sure not to offend" nuance that is developing here is getting really sickening. Bull$**t with cherries on it doesn't make it taste any less like bull$**t. And there is a LOT of advice floating around here lately with cherries on it.

Maybe we need a "GQ - Coddlers/Coddled ONLY" discussion area and we can avoid any further problems?

Good Grief,
it was the whole "my Opinion" ....your Opinion ....their Opinion,
round and round & round that basically ran Lem's thread into the ditch.

Fine:
EVERYONE has an opinion ........granted, agreed.

However,
If you Choose to enter a thread,
then Perhaps be mature enough to at least offer some reasons (supporting your said Opinion) that can be discussed or otherwise debated.

Otherwise,
then please explain to me your purpose in posting???

In addition,
Perhaps then be prepared to take it to its logical conclusion ... which means some Give and take from each side.
To simply put out a Drive By opinion .......but not being willing to delve into it,
is defeating the purpose of a "discussion" forum.

Surprise:
Look at the top of page, that is where we're all posting on.

Indeed,
To continue to interject into an already heated discussion,
yet basically REFUSE [out of hand] to have some "back and forth" is just Stirring the Pot.

Unfortunately,
its Hard to debate something when those opposing you refuse to offer anything back
{and for some odd reason even TRUMPET the fact that "you can't make me" for all to read} ........yet won't go away or let it alone either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Many times they just keep coming back and seem so HAPPY to tell everyone that they have NO INTENTION of explaining themselves. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Do I understand this type of poster??
Nope, can't claim that.

Perhaps one of them can shine some light on that. (????)

I'd call a particular poster out (starts with an S -ends with an R),
but then I'd get accused of being mean or out of order.
Might even get reported. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Keep in mind,
This type of action makes those that actual Do put out points and are willing to offer counter points very frustrated and extremely irritated at those that just post for some as of yet Unknown reason OR just for the heck of it.

For us,
unless its just some type of game or other amusement, it makes little sense.

And before there are the responses of
"its my right not to explain myself or defend a position or issue" .......no one's saying it isn't.

Its just that I don't understand it .......as this is a "discussion board".
So to put out points
but then be totally resistant to questions or comments,
What's that about???

Lastly,
Disagreement doesn't mean someone is being disrespectful or mean.
Just because someone takes "offense" .....in no way guarantees that the other person was being Offensive.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sorry,
had to edit my Heck [H@ll] comment ....cause I hate those (****) in my posts.

Amen!

Very well stated TOP.

Thank you.

What is the point of this tread? Mel is a big girl. She's been communicating in her style for many a moon and if she wants to come back she will.

Tempest asked posters to be cognizant of how they interact with others. What is wrong with that?

It really does no good to be rude even for the sake of truth. In fact it does harm. The message is often lost when it is conveyed that way. I think the purpose of this forum is to help others that have marital discord, the purpose isn't to see who can proclaim their truths the most loudly and forcibly. At least, I usally try to help others when I post (this post is obviously an exception).

People write here what they would never say in a conversation in the real world. If they did they would probably get punched in the eye.

I know that "rude" behavior is somehow "normal" now in this Talk-Radio world we live in. We feel the urge to SCREAM at anyone that dares disagree. It might feel good but it certainly doesn't help prove your point. It just proves that you have a hard time controlling your emotions.