Intexas you asked:



As I indicated previously, #1 is true of my FWH....

#2 CERTAINLY WAS NOT TRUE OF HIM..PLAN A..2 False recoveries..PLAN B..fence-sitting-YES..cake-eating-YES..THE PITS OF HE// for him and me....YUK!!!! He thought that he was "in-love" with her...she was his "true love"..told me: "FACE IT, IT'S OVER BETWEEN US..."..I don't think I'll ever forget that conversation, that day, the expression on his face....YUK!! YUK!! YUK!!.....

#3 He blamed me up until the end of his WITHDRAWAL which lasted 6 months..DURING RECOVERY...As indicated by BR, RECOVERY IS NO WALK IN THE PARK..hardest part of all of this..but WORTH ITS WEIGHT IN GOLD....once it has been ENDURED...

You also say:



Be careful about this. My FWH would have been considered narcissist during his A..that was part of its appeal..its addictiveness.. the FOW made him the center of her life..during PLAN B, he realized that much of this was "BS" (his words)..she couldn't keep it up 24/7..and he realized that expecting this from another person is unhealthy and unnatural....a healthy relationship, of course, involves GIVE AND TAKE...

You say:



Again, this is NO DIFFERENT than my H was when he was a WH....this is part of the WS SCRIPT....written down somewhere in their RULE BOOK....



Same here..I've never been with anyone else..been married 30 years...

In Texas:

During PLAN B, I turned my H over to God. I put it in GOD'S HANDS. I said out loud to my H that he was free and that I didn't want him UNTIL he wanted me. He was able to CONVINCE me that he wanted me back. Plus, he realized that proving his SINCERITY to me would be difficult so he WORKED at it...

I'm saying that you probably have the capacity to FORGIVE your WH and to work on RECOVERY if he actually DEMONSTRATES his REPENTANCE to you and BEGS for your FORGIVENESS...I think you would know the difference....

I came to realize and accept that it was just so difficult for my H to eventuallly break away from her..

That's one of the things that continues to AMAZE me when I SEE her...HOW COULD SHE HAVE HAD THAT MUCH POWER OVER HIM? He continues to almost FEAR it..going to great extremes, even today, to avoid having any contact with her...YUK!!!!

Steve Harley actually described her as being a "DRUG DEALER"....

I guess this explains why I am such a believer in the viewpoint of an AFFAIR being an addiction...

Some rambling thoughts of mine this morning....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

your question descibes my fwh exactly---in fact if anyone knew about the affair or found out they wouldn't believe it. he was the most upstanding giving man in the world. if i had exposed to everyone they just wouldnt have believed it.

as good as he was...he never met my needs. if you were to look at our marriage pre affair....you all knowing about meeting needs and such would have bet i would have been the ws...not him! lol

So the consensus is that they come back home, and are not all that happy about it, but then they CHANGE.

That was not my experience as a FWW. But I was gone a very long time. But, through my A, we didn't know about MB so there was no plan for recovery.

I did not come back begrudgingly. I came back done with the A and done with withdrawal and 100% committed to being with my H in a great marriage.

Maybe mine was different because the A was not "interrupted" but went on until it died of natural causes.

jean i pray that my H is like you were....

my husband was a pretty decent guy pre-A but without a clue how to be a husband - no more clue than I had on how to be a wife. MB gave us a framework for our marriage, not just for recovery.

As a FWW, I can say needs were not being met, but that is not what was the main cause of my A. The main cause was my own weaknesses and lack of coping mechanisms/self-awareness/communication skills (and that is what my own R has been focused on). Once the FWS understands that the A is not only about ENs not being met, that it goes so much deeper than that, then they are on the road to R. We have all had times needs were not met (myself included), but it did not lead to an A. Mine came after we had been hit by a lot of stressors all at the same time and I felt my H did not love me anymore or understand me (seemed like he only wanted me for SF). FWS have to take ownership of our part in the A, or you are right, there is a risk of it happening again.

Again, too simplistic... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In our situation, my H was COMFORTED by the OPTION of RETURNING home but came back as a WOUNDED, DEPRESSED or GENERALLY UNHAPPY person..

From what I gather, since I can only go by my own impressions of him and what he has shared with me, he LITERALLY SUFFERED from the EMOTIONAL PAIN of WITHDRAWAL combined with SORROW AND EMBARASSMENT over what he had done and what he had become.. He seemed to be coming out of the PITS OF HE**...and took a long time to HEAL FROM THE EMOTIONAL WOUNDS...this HEALING continues...and is reflected in his CHANGES...

i share mimi's views as she states above...exactly!!

my H was also #1

and he's acting that same way...but i believe that is common...

I understand it is indeed an "addiction" for my H and by understanding this and the effect it has, it has been easier for me to forgive him

it continues to be so hard waiting to see if he can fight the addiction and become the man he once was

so far, he has no desire, or reason, to try

but if he does, i will be blessed to have the opportunity to build a new and better relationship with him

SAD TO SAY...before his A, my H was better at being a HUSBAND than I was at being a WIFE...MB and Steve Harley shockingly made me aware of this..Steve Harley point blank told me that I was dead "WRONG" about a lot of aspects of MARRIAGE that my H was "RIGHT" about...

Certainly that was no excuse for him to go off and "PLAY HOUSE" with the OW...That's what he tried to do. Thank God for PLAN B because she FAILED MISERABLY in the "WIFEY ROLE"...

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my H too was a better H than I was a wife

however, it's possible that OW is doing a better jon than i did

EXACTLY!!!! Though I forgive him already. I know that we all are capable of anything apart from the Lord. I just no longer want to have to "win him back" at this point. That didn't work. If reconciliation could happen, it would have to be started he way you stated above--because I need to know he's sincere and because I need to know the really wants ME and not just not to be alone.

And I want nothing less. And I'll take nothing less.

BUT, I'm scared in relation to the fact that the concensus also seems to be (on this thread) the WS's who recovered were #1 (decent spouse). Mine wasn't. He was verbally mean to me many, many times. He always put his needs before everyone elses. Always. And while I think this is his first PA, I know for sure of 2 EA's. He had no respect for me in the marriage--pre-affair.

The changing he has to do is mega-huge--and it has to come about because he wants it. The D is fast approaching--initiated by him.

I went along with being treated like this because I thought that's what a Christian wife did--shut up and pray mentality. But it's more than that--especially when an affair is added to the pic. That is one of that changes I have made to myself in this process--knowing it's okay to stick up for yourself.

Intexas - I think a lot of us got into this mess by being a good Christian wife, shutting up and praying.

Believer--But did it get us into it--or make it easier to happen? Or maybe neither...what's ya' think?

And that's why I am asking if anyone has recovered where the WS wasn't a good S pre-affair. I've only seen the opposite so far. I'm not talking about the M not being good pre-A, but the actual WS. There's a dif I think.

I'm not aiming to prove any point--just really want to see the dif between recovered vs. unrecovered marriages.

I guess my line of thinking is recoverery is more probable if the S was a good S pre-affair.

One of the consequences of an affair is that the BS may re-evaluate the marriage. I think that is why a lot of marriages don't survive an affair. The BS comes to the realization that the marriage wasn't all that anyway.

I'll give you this one. EVERYone would have said it was "out-of-character," except that he NEVER left a relationship without going to someone else... so, while he'd not cheated in our marriage...


This makes me chuckle. My H continued to see OW for about a year. In fact, a few years later, I found out he had even slept w/ other women as revenge for something OW did. (yeah, in his skewed thinking... it had NOTHING to do w/ me.)


He has only just recently conceded that the affair really had nothing to do with me... that it was his selfish actions and reactions to many issues in the marriage and within himself. It took over 4 years to get to this place.

Do I still have doubts and fears. H#LL, yeah. But compared to five years ago. No Way. He has become transformed through his relationship with Jesus. It is real and true.

Marital Recovery will be driven by the personal recoveries of the two in the marriage. There is not a timeline for the journey... it is as unique as those in the marriage.

Is recovery worth it? IF YOU CAN, you bet. Going through cancer last year, I had a vision of what it would have been like to go through it w/out him. I didn't like it. I'm much better off with him, than without him.

I also see the difference he makes in our boys lives. I'm sure that we would have been resilient and would have persevered through divorce and custody... but it has been worth it to knit together a family our boys can rely upon. They are able to stand taller and be so much more secure than I was growing up in a divorced family.

Finally, the most important aspect on which to focus is THE JOURNEY. Your JOURNEY... at the end of the day, are YOU a better person?

Cali

I have taken some advice from justempty to check out this forum. All this info is leaving me confused. It sounds like the only way to have a great marriage again is if I trace all the future steps of my FWW, expect her to leave unless I meet her needs 24/7, and expect that I will find out that she has lied to me about things before.

Why would anyone bother?

There was a thread a few days ago about why it's worth trying--I'll try to find it and bump it up for you.

J-dad--there are many, many reasons to try. Your marriage might not end up recovered--but you will have no regrets and will be a better you for trying. Stick around this forum--you'll learn a ton--at the very least you'll get first hand exposure to other stories--and can add "research" into your decision whether to stay or not, instead of making a totally emotional decision.

And you know what--know matter what, it's okay whichever way you decide--and it is YOUR decision.

Welcome.

intexas

I think I was OK before the A. Not great, not bad, maybe a C-.

I continued my A for about 1 year after D-day. I was one fence sitting, cake eating SOB.

I never blamed BS totally for the A.

believer: The WS has to grow and change for there to be recovery--which is why I discourage te notion of the "evil OP". Anything that relieves the WS of responsibility for the A allows the WS to avoid changing.

To answer this. My H bothered because:

a. He loves me unconditionally.

b. We've been married 31 years and have two adult children.

c. He forgave me.

d. I did everything that was humanly possible to right my wrong.

e. It's a marathon, not a sprint. We were not going to let 2 years of total sh*t be the sum of our 30 marriage.

Also, why do so many people think it's an onerous chore to meet someone else's needs. I meet my friends' needs, I meet my childrens' needs, I meet my H's needs because I love them.

It is definitely a chore in Plan A when you are meeting the needs of someone who is blank, who is spiteful, who is selfish, who has no interest in reciprocating.

But that's the whole point. It's the patience and the love required to do that that makes the difference and what ultimately brings the WS back.

It's also belittling to someone else when you scoff at their needs just because you don't think they're valid.

"Huh, I'm not going to admire him just because he goes to work every day and provides for our family." "He wants SF all the time. Whatever. He's just being selfish." "She wants to be complimented and listened to. She knows I think she's lovely and I do listen when I'm not watching TV or reading." It's such a minefield.