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*************EDIT*****************
I think that anyone who comes here, WS or BS and whether there's an F in front of that, deserves at least a little respect for having the courage to come here. My point is that some get beaten down, repeatedly, by bitter posters, to the point that being here is a hinderance to their recovery... *********************
Last edited by Justuss; 02/28/06 01:36 PM.
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GBH, I am glad you are amused, but the fact remains, if someone leaves, they leave of their OWN VOLITION. No one else has control over that. Only they have control over whether they leave or not. If they feel someone is "bitter" and they run, that is their decision and they must own it. They have no one to blame but themselves.
We are all adults here and are perfectly capable of taking responsibilty for our own choices.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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********************EDIT********************
Last edited by Justuss; 02/28/06 01:38 PM.
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Sorry, GBH, I don't have the slightest idea - or concern -about your personal little board drama. The issue at hand is taking responsibility for one's choice to leave. And all the high drama in the world won't change that factoid. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Would you two please take this to a seperate thread and/or let's concentrate on helping the poster here?!?!
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I believe it was a dead issue until you dredged it up, Owl.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Would you two please take this to a seperate thread and/or let's concentrate on helping the poster here?!?! Not to worry Owl. I'm done.************EDIT********* Back to the topic at hand... I hope that Eagle15Tooo sticks around and gets some good input from the likes of KiwiJ, dorry, and Suzet - FWWs who have been in her shoes -- ****EDIT***** I truly think ETooo is still a bit fogged, but her BS is not helping my making selfish demands that she tries to "obey" (can't think of another word for it right now). It's like an out-of-control merry-go-round -- they both need to jump off and consider a different ride for a while. Perhaps a roller coaster? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by Justuss; 02/28/06 01:41 PM.
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************allow the woman to get some help. This is clearly a personal problem and it has no place on this thread.
Last edited by Justuss; 02/28/06 01:44 PM.
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****edit***If you look at my past posts, you would see that I have offered a lot to advice to the Eagles, including a suggestion to put the D on the back burner and genuinely, sincerely try to recover (not just for show and not just for the kids sake), try to rekindle what first brought them together, and heed advice from posters who have been there like dorry, KiwiJ, and Suzet, who even the BSs have said offer good input. I have also essentially seconded what Owl said, that they are both trying to one-up one another with hurtful statements and they need to try a different approach. And I have suggested that Eagle stop the SDs and start Plan A'ing. Why you don't see or acknowledge these posts is a mystery to me, but they are there and I can look in the mirror and say that I've put forward a sincere effort to help them.
Last edited by Justuss; 02/28/06 01:46 PM.
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That's nice. So why not get back to the business of helping and letting this drop?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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*************edit*********
I think that anyone who comes here, WS or BS and whether there's an F in front of that, deserves at least a little respect for having the courage to come here. My point is that some get beaten down, repeatedly, by bitter posters, to the point that being here is a hinderance to their recovery... GBH, I've been here 4+ years as has Mel. Plus I know Mel has taken steps to improve her life. I have taken similar steps... Mel's long history on this board provides her insight you do not appreciate. The core of this insight is Honesty. Without it we do not recover from anything. We simply prolong the illusion of improvement. Mel's approach may seem harsh to you at times, but I will tell you that it is exactly what 90% of the WS and BS will need to hear. Perhaps they will need to hear it at a different time, but who has that crystal ball? You? Me? Mel? Of course not. So what Mel does is tell people the truth at the time presented to her on this forum. Mel does not need me to defend her. But I will tell you, I think she is a needed asset to this board. Mel, don't change and don't let other posters who like the truth wrapped with warm fuzzies bother you... Gib
Last edited by Justuss; 02/28/06 01:49 PM.
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Thanks much for the kind words, Gibby. Let me assure you I don't let the warm, fuzzy crowd bother me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Enough! Let's get back to helping the Eagle's!!!!
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Eagle2- Haven't seen a post from you in a bit...hope you're doing well. I just wanted to share with you what I'd posted on your H's thread...it completely pertains to you as well friend. Please, let me know your thoughts. Making the choice on what your goal is was your first step. You can't do anything without knowing what you want to do first.
Here's the problem tho. There is NO nuclear option. Your marriage has/had flaws and problems for years...just like the rest of ours. And it's going to take time to repair all of that damage...to include what led up to her A, the damage from the A, and all of the fallout since. We've discussed a few of the things that you both need to change in order to have a better marriage...communication, compromise, etc... You need to get into an effective MC program (THAT BOTH OF YOU CAN SUPPORT) to start on that.
No one can give you timelines/milestones/etc...and it's pretty unrealistic to expect that any of us could. Even your MC (whomever you end up with) won't/can't give you that kind of answer...it doesn't work that way. It's dependent on you and your wife more than anything else. If you want a good marriage with your wife...be prepared to roll up your sleeves and do some HARD, LONG work.
Quit trying for the quick fixes...settle for the little victories, and pay attention to your progress over time. Start with the things I've recommended to you...quit pressuring her to just suddenly let go of everything and be happy again...too much baggage for that to happen out of the blue. Fix your friendship with her first. This does NOT mean that you both should start acting like you're not married...just reduce the pressure on the the things that are too hard to manage right now. Focus on what you CAN improve right now, and work on a game plan to deal with those things that are out of your scope at the moment.
Again, this does not mean that you should condone anything that is contrary to rebuilding your marriage. It means that you've got time to fix this...so pace yourself.
I know this isn't the answer that you want to hear...but it's the only answer I've got.
How long it takes is up to the BOTH of you...you need to find out what's most effective in helping HER too, not just yourself.
So, you want to get started? Go get some recommendations for good MC's in your area, and have a list to sit down with your W and review tonite. And if she says she doesn't care, ask her what her preferences are...male, female, older, younger, etc... and do your best to meet what criteria you both can agree on. Call them in the morning and get this moving.
You two are already doing the 15 hours a week. GREAT...so keep it fun, and totally off-limits for R/A/M talk. Make it FUN...make it something you both look forward to! Ask your W what she would like to do...compromise where you can.
Go look at a book that I truly credit with helping to save my marriage..."20 (Surprisingly Simple) Rules and Tools For a Great Marriage!" by Dr Steve Stephens. My wife and I read a chapter a night...they're short. See if you can get her to agree to that.
Schedule time to talk about the A/R/M...outside of your 15 hours. STICK TO THE SCHEDULE. Keep it short, do NOT let either person run over. And...DROP the discussion when time is up...pick up where you left off when you come back. Keep a journal of what's discussed then so you can do so.
I've given you the 'baby steps' here and in my other posts...now it's up to you. I know you don't want to accept that it's going to take time to do this...but the sooner you do so, the sooner you'll be moving forward.
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I'd like to add that doing this work falls on your shoulders too. There is no reason why you can't assist in looking for an MC that both of you can work with, and/or share that list with your H and work with him to compromise and agree to trying one. Start that search today.
Again, just realize that nothing has to be fixed today. I DO heartily recommend that both of you not wait on getting into counseling. Beyond that, take your time in making any long term decisions...work on simply becoming friends again first. As I said, that does NOT give either of you permission to go off and act like you're not married...simply suggesting that you focus on what you can do right now, and start planning on how to deal with the other stuff.
Take a look at that book I suggested to. It's good...it makes tons of sense, and it's biblically based.
Hope this helps. I also hope it helps to realize that you and your H are both getting the same advice from me...it's time to start working in the same direction as your spouse, instead of against them. BOTH of you have been doing a lot of that lately. That is the first thing you guys need to change.
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"Never argue with idiots or WSs, They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
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Eagle15Tooo, Justkeeptrying
Are still with your wife? Sorry about the very delayed response. Yes we are together, and both happy. Don't get me wrong, it's still "A work in progress". She's believes D would have been a huge mistake. She has always been the type of person that put everyone else before herself. For the majority of the 20 years we have been together, she allowed me to do as I pleased without complaint, or very little(giver/enabler), and I took advantage of that. Knowing it was wrong, but it's OK "she'll get over it". In the past few years she has greatly improved, becoming more independent, and for the better "with the exception of the A". Backing up a bit. 3 months before I retired, or went on terminal leave we had an argument where she calmly informed me she wanted a D. I knew she was serious. At this point I had no idea about the A. Over the next few days and weeks, it became clear to me how important she was to me, and there was nothing I wouldn't do to save this M. I commited to making the changes needed to being the husband she deserved all along. She went back a forth on trying to make the M work or pursue D. The factors on these decissions were her feeling for the OM="D" verses our kids="Stay". Again I still know nothing of the A. After listening to "Lets make it work" a few times, and having that huge relief of stress. Just to return to "I can't do this". The rollercoaster of emotions was just to great. I gave up. She sensed I had given up. One evening after work a few old friends were up from Dallas "contractors". I went out for a few beers, and to talk about potential work post- retirement. I drove to the lake to chew on a job offer that would take me 3 hours drive from my family. Which at the time getting away from her seemed attractive, but being away from the kids? She attempted to call me a few times, I didn't answer the cell. A few hours later I got home, and she was pissed. Assumed I was out with a woman. I believe this was the moment she truly realized "We need to make this work", and still feelings for me. I still no nothing of her A. She called it off with OM, informing him of her decission to work on the relastionship. Skip ahead a few more months. He becomes jealous, she is avoiding him at all cost. He decides I need to be informed of their A, and calls me with the info.(D-Day). Let me add I had an A 8 years earlier that I told my W about. Today: We both have our regrets, the scars are there. But we are both happy to be together, and feel closer than we have been in many years. Miss each other when we are appart for even a day or 2. We know what to do in order to avoid this from happening again. Continue to regain the trust. Love our childern, and strenghten feelings toward each other. I guess the strongest advice I can give you is to put your whole heart into making your M work, and if it doesn't it won't be because you didn't try.
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