Thanks KiwiJ. I have a deal with WW that she post at least once a day. If she stops doing that, I will get dewt to DHL me his whip. I think she will. She does not seem to mind. I do appreciate the help. She needs to make a decision on way or the other.

Please do me a favor and if the consensus becomes that WW and I are not doing each other any good and should split, send me a post.

Hey, we've got the Spanish going on, all over the place. I was very surprised by the number of people who can write in it.

By the way, are you picthcing in and helping your daughters with their homework?

I had been helping DD1 with homework. DD2 is in preschool and has no homework. DD1 gets home at 3:30 PM. I get home between 4:15 and 4:30 PM. At the moment, we have activities every single day for DD1 at either 4:00 (gymnastics) 4:30 (swimming) 5:00 (soccer). On all days except soccer, there is not time for me to do it. On soccer days, there is time but when I get home, DD1 is already out playing with her friends and does not want to come in and do homework. We had tried doing homework after activities and before bed but DD1 is absolutely impossible by that time. She is too tired to have any concentration. The best time to do homework (her teacher told us both this in PTA conference) is as soon after school as possible before she gets distracted by anything else.

I never don't help with homework. At the moment, it just isn't practical on most days. If it is not done by the time I get home, DD1 and I do it together. Sometimes we split and I do the math and WW watches the reading if I have to get ready to go to soccer, for example. Usually I do it all when there is time. I also have DD1 read from her library books to me and WW does that too. Reading seems to be the area where DD1 needs the most practice. WW is concerned that her English is not good enough to always get the reading right. I tend to agree. It is much better that I help with that.

A short while ago I was doing the homework every single day. Now I do almost none of it. That is not because I don't want to. It is just because the schedule won't allow it. WW has never complained that this was a problem. She is primarily responsible for getting DD1 into all the extracurricular activities. She wants to start piano lessons for DD1 as well. How do we schedule this all in?

Hmmm. I think I would try asking the older daughter if she has homework, helping with the girls, and making plans for the weekend.

And being fun, and laughing more. That should be challenging, considering what you are going through.

Part of the problem is me. Part of the problem is what WW wants to perceive me to be. She continues to maintain a very negative view of me because it supports her fantasy. To be honest, I am not sure it is a battle that can be won. She wants to continue to see me as the bad person solely responsible for her unhappiness. To see me as anything else adds to her confusion and creates doubt about the affair.

On the other hand, it is tough for me to be happy all the time when I know what she is doing although I would get at least a B for effort. All I have asked her to do is make a decision one way or the other. We just had that conversation again a few minutes ago based on advice from someone. I told her if she is willing to leave the OM behind and make an effort, she will get everything I have. On the other hand, as long as she keeps the A alive and the OM in contact, there is no point in me giving any effort - in fact, it might be better if she just make the decision to leave and seek her happiness where she knows she will find it. I will support either choice but she needs to get off the fence and go one way or the other. Neither one of us will ever be happy in this stagnation we are in at the moment.

Right now she is like the rope in a tug-of-war. The OM on one side and family on the other and she moves a little this way and a little that way but doesn't really get much of any place. She is going to have to let go of one side or the other.

Traicionado:

This indecision may take months or even years (if she keeps contact with OM).

I would do the following:

Tell her you cannot wait for her forever and that you will be happy to send her on her way. Or better--------call OM in front of her and ask him to come pick her up. Right now she is in la-la land and needs a dose of reality.

However, be prepared to lose if she moves on. The OM is even younger than her and you as the older guy may be at a disadvantage. However, if she decides to go you will live through short pain rather than long protracted pain.

You are still very early in this. She is completely thinking about a fantasy. I don't think this will go on much longer. I feel sorry for her. She needs to get some friends. I'm sure she is lonely and vulnerable.

Stan-ley,

Have already done both of those things. If she wants to leave, I will help her pack her bags. I don't care any more what her decision is as long as she makes one.

If she stays, it will be a lot of work, a lot of pain and a lot of time to get through this. Happy to sing up.

If she goes, I can begin to heal. Either way I come out okay.

Now we have just had what may be a major misunderstanding. I told her I think she still calls OM. She tells me she hasn't spoken to him in three weeks. We just had a small argument about that. Now she says the last time she spoke to OM was the NC call we made together. That was 5 1/2 weeks ago. She says she just got her math wrong. I said I can't read her mind. What her words said was she had a phone call with him at least 2 1/2 weeks AFTER the NC call. What am I supposed to think? I took 13 hours of calculus, differential equations and partial differential equations. I can subtract 3 from 5 1/2. My beliefs are based on what she is saying. I have enough confusion without her adding to it.

I just got off the phone with WW and apologized but tried to explain how much of an effect her 2 1/2 week calculation error had on me and my beliefs about what she was doing.

I asked if she would keep posting on MB and said she now had two threads because someone else wrote to her. She said she will post on MB if she is upset or unhappy but, if things are going well, she sees no need to post. Somebody might want to encourage her to keep posting regardless. Just an idea.

believer,

She has opportunities to make friends but chooses not to IMO. She creates the lonliness and then wallows in it. I see that we were invited to a Mardi Gras party by one of her friends. She never mentioned one word to me about it so I assume we are not going. She was told about the party in person, invited to the party by email, reminded of the party by email and did nothing about it. Never said anything to me.

In December we were invited to a "net ball" party by another friend of hers. Again she never mentioned it to me. When I asked her about it, she told me she had assumed I would not want to go so she declined on my behalf. We had gone to a net ball party the month before and I had told WW what a great time I had. I had to mention this the next day because she got so snockered she couldn't remember most of the night.

I agree that WW needs friends. There are plenty of women here. She always finds a pretext for not seeking them out. They are too old. They have children different ages, they don't have children, they are Latin and I don't like to be around other Latin women because they are such plaetistas (her words - not mine).

WW and I go to soccer. We take chairs. She won't sit with the other moms. She chooses to sit all by herself.

WW is in mourning for OM I guess. I don't know. She doesn't look ready to me to continue on with her life. She is such an outgoing person and makes friends easily. She just won't.

believer,

One more thing to occupy your mind: yes there was a time a few years ago when I spent way too much time on the PC working on our website. Since coming to Saudi I have cut way way back and, IMO have spent very little time. Lately I have spent even less because I have given up any and all programming projects. The question that now comes to my mind is this - is WW upset that I spend time on the PC or is she upset that I spend time on the PC now knowing that I am discussing the A? Which one is really bothering her? I don't know the answer.

Traicionado,

I am one of those trying to help gemela.

I won't comment about her thread but I thinkyou have to try to convince yourself to take things a little slower. If it helps set a deadline. Give your marriage a month, 3 or 6 whatever you think YOU can stand. Dr Harley says that men can do 6 months of plan A, more than women usually can. Once you have that date in mind, just do your best plan A knowing that it will end.

I am like you and want to resolve things immediately. Fortunately I had to wait 2 months to kick WH out because of my dds, I found MB and plan Ad for that time. I was able to do it because I knew it would end. and it did. I am now in plan B (14 months of it).

I also did not want to take ADs. My concentration was shot. I got my dream job and I couldn't enjoy it! Most of the daily stuff I was managing OK, not great but OK. After one year I went to a psychiatrist and got ADs. One of the main effects of taking them was starting to enjoy my job! I also stopped crying, am less anxious and nervous.

I think you have to calm down, take ADs, set a date for ending plan A, and let gemela know that she will have to make a decision by then because you cannot take anymore and you have to be there for your daughters.

Dr. Harley says that you shouldn't continue plan A when you can't really do it because you do more harm than good. After all it is trying to be the best person you can and if you're not being that, there is no plan A.

Just yesterday he said there was plan A and plan B and NO OTHER PLANS. at least that's his philosophy.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks. I don't want to know about gemela's thread. From my POV it could just as easily be disinformation as information and is therefore useless.

We had a major problem about the mathematics. Whether she is still in contact or not I don't know but, based on what she has recently told me, I believe(d) she is(was) still calling. She told me she had not had contact in three weeks. Insists on it, in fact. The "NC call" was 5 1/2 weeks ago. I logically concluded she was still in contact somehow. We disagreed about that this AM. She now says it was a bad estimate on her part and that what she really meant was she has not called in 5 1/2 weeks. I explained to her that her math error caused me to draw a very wrong conclusion. I think this, above all else, has mitigated my patience. If it was a math error on her part, it was an unfortunate one.

We also had a deal that she would make a decision by end of February. It is now March and not a word. This AM she assured me that it is her decision to stay and that she will put forth effort.

This is what she has said so, apart from the obvious trust issues I have with a cheating spouse, I will have to take it at face value. If it does turn out that she is still in contact and she has not yet made up her mind and I later discover that, it will just diminish further what remaining credibility she has and will probably be her one-way ticket to OM.

At this point, dishonesty helps nothing.

Whether we stay or split, I am glad she is getting good help. I believe OM has been very dishonest with her. I even have a bit of that documented. The HPV alone makes me wonder just how honorable he could really be. I have proof he lied to her from the beginning but WW cannot accept that. Even if our M fails, this particular OM will be the death of all that she knows and believes in. I think she could do far better.

****If she stays, it will be a lot of work, a lot of pain and a lot of time to get through this. Happy to sing up.

If she goes, I can begin to heal. Either way I come out okay.****


The greater source of pain for the BS is the uncertainty and the internal debates of leaving versus staying.

OTOH, finality (WW leaves or she decides to work on marriage 100%) is easier to accept and the pain will be of shorter duration. You must also mourn the loss of the marriage parts that are now dead. Do this now rather than later so you do not become chronically depressed and resentful.


***I told her I think she still calls OM. She tells me she hasn't spoken to him in three weeks.

If she is a typical WW I am almost 100% certain she is still in touch. Like an addict she will lie about it. Install key-logger and put a hidden voice activated recorder on the home phone. IF she has a cell phone make sure you review the calls on the bill or online.


***I believe OM has been very dishonest with her. I even have a bit of that documented. The HPV alone makes me wonder just how honorable he could really be. I have proof he lied to her from the beginning but WW cannot accept that.

By nature all OMs are liars, however, WWs rationalize these things very well. She probably thinks OM lies to everyone, but her------she is special. DO NOT DENIGRATE OM IN FRONT OF HER. This is a major love buster. Do not even acknowledge the existence of OM.

IF OM is military I would report this to your CO.

***There are plenty of women here. She always finds a pretext for not seeking them out. They are too old. They have children different ages, they don't have children, they are Latin and I don't like to be around other Latin women because they are such plaetistas (her words - not mine).

She probably has low self-esteem. Women like that are easy prey for a seasoned OM.

***I asked if she would keep posting on MB and said she now had two threads because someone else wrote to her. She said she will post on MB if she is upset or unhappy but, if things are going well, she sees no need to post. Somebody might want to encourage her to keep posting regardless. Just an idea.

IF you briefly post her email my wife will be happy to write her. Maybe she needs to vent privately to a FWW who may be more empathetic to her situation.

Give her affair literature. She needs to understand that most affairs die and no one wins. I suspect she got her name “Gemela” from the “almas gemelas” saying (the soul-mate equivalent in English).

BTW, if you document she is breaking NC put her on a plane and send her to the OM-------do not hesitate.

Post deleted by gemela

I will ask my wife to write.

Sorry about the gemela post. I keep the home PC logged on as her so she can get in without any effort. I was in a hurry and forgot to log in as me. That is still:


email deleted------------------

For anyone looking for gemela, I doubt she will post tonight. She told me today she only feels like posting when she is in a bad mood and she is in a good mood tonight. Please don't give up on her. She needs your help just as much as we need your help, if not more.

Thanks for letting us know she's not posting. we will keep the thread on the first page hoping she will read

Glad you are trying to hang in there.

So I will assume that when we don't hear from your wife, things are going well.

I can empathize with her about not wanting to make friends or do things. She may be depressed. When my children were very young, I lived a long way from my family and friends. I'm a very outgoing person, but got very withdrawn. It was awful.

Gemela, you and your children are in my prayers.