One of the differences I have noticed between American and Mexican culture is in the kitchen. Americans refrigerate everything. Mexicans tend not to refrigerate too much. Food is left out, you boil it every night before bed, keep the lid on and eat it again the next day. That was always difficult for me to adjust to. I still prefer to refrigerate even though I will admit the other method can be effective too. One thing, however, that should never go without refrigeration is leftover Domino's garlic bread. I just wish we had known that on Friday.

I thought I was helping WW Friday by ordering Domino's. She just had to get garlic bread, she just had to not eat all of it and she just had to leave it out all night. DD's had garlic bread for lunch. It is now 4:15 AM and we just walked in the door only 15 minutes ago after having spent the entire night in the emergency room. DD's both got food poisoning and have been on IV's all night. Looking at the bright side - at least it was a family activity. I don't have enough time to get any sleep before going to work.

On the withdrawal issue, I guess I have been a little concerned. I can't see that it will ever occur. WW could be hiding it. What if she never goes through withdrawal? What if she just continues loving OM forever? If WW never "gets over" OM, that doesn't really leave much hope for our M. WW's behavior is weird and doesn't seem to fit any description of any other WW I have read about. I guess that is what bothers me - there is no example to compare it to. I don't really expect great things out of MC. WW has always deceived the MC lady very effectively and I have no doubt that she will continue to do so.

Anyway, I don't really have any other ideas on what to do expect wait. The situation we have right now is definitely not acceptable as a long term solution and I will eventually shut it down if there is no improvement. If I catch her breaking NC, I will call it quits immediately. On the other hand, as long as NC is maintained, I think I can tolerate this for about 6 more months if I have to. If things are then as they are now, it will be time for a plan of a higher letter of the alphabet than "A".

I do wish gemela would communicate just a little. A lot has gone on over the past few months to just ignore. I don't think it has ever occurred to her that she did anything to hurt me. She is the victim in her eyes.

I am so tired. This is going to be a long day.

gemela did post tonight but could not stick around. We had to take DD's to the emergency room and it took all night.

One thing that might be helpful is if some of you could suggest when the best time for her to post would be in relation to when you might be logged on. We live at GMT+3 so you will have to work out the math and convert that to local Saudi time for her. I think the time of day she picks has much to do with how much she will post.

Hang in there. She won't have feelings for the OM forever. It should be over soon.

I know what you mean about the no refrigeration thing. My roommates do that. I refrigerate everything. They prefer to leave everything out. So when I cook, I make smaller batches. I don't eat the stuff that is left out - they may be immune to the bacteria, but I don't think I am.

You've had sleepless nights in the last six months right? Just another one of them. I take it DD's are okay now? It's tough having to take kids to the ER. Look on the positive side: you were right there with your family ensuring DD were attended to. Strong symbolism for WW.

believer,

I know that, beyond question "it" will be over soon. Where doubt enters the picture is when I try to decide which is the "it" that is going to be over. I would like to clear that doubt soon.

ToddAC,

DDs are resting quietly in their beds. I was so tired and could barely stay awake holding DD2's hand. She was fast asleep hugging her osito (which is really a rat but she is in complete denial). I got up, went out and found a vending machine. I found a Diet Pepsi that I am ashamed to admit I simply lusted after. I wanted it more than life itself. I had two riyal bills on me (machine didn't take anything larger) and the DP cost 1 riyal and an Ice Tea (WW's drink of preference) cost 2 riyals. I bought the Ice Tea. Didn't even think about it twice. Personally I think it is sleep deprivation.

Although I did want to add that, while I was looking at the can of Diet Pepsi, I heard the caffeine calling me. I heard it say "I beckon thee, harken unto my call. Partake of my simple gift and I shall replenish your spirit." and I thought - "back up the bus! Pepsi is an American product - why the heck can't caffeine speak simple English?" and it kind of annoyed me. I thought the caffeine was being a bit pretentious.

believer,

Way back in chemical engineering school I was surprised the number of bacteria that public sanitary drinking water is allowed to have per cubic centimeter per federal guidelines. Just the thought of putting all that in my body! But our bodies develop immunity quickly and we never notice. Now the water in Mexico may have more bacteria or it may have less but what is important is that it has different bacteria for which a typical gringo has never developed immunity. On the other hand, it is just as easy for a Mexican to have problems drinking the water in the USA as it is for a gringo to drink the water in Mexico. The obvious solution is to drink beer instead. Now Paris drinking water is notoriously bad. Cairo? I brushed my teeth with beer in Cairo. When I lived in Abu Dhabi, I used to believe the water was pretty good – until the day I found the two dead birds IN the holding tank on the roof!

Haha. I suppose you are right. My roommates come from Tehuantepec, Oaxaca, where having a refrigerator in the house is very rare. It's kind of funny, as they regard the refrigerated food as being a bit suspicious.

Right now, there are some black beans on the stove, some rice, and some chicken with mole. As you said, they heat it up at night and cover it. But what about during the day?

They never seem to get sick from anything, so I guess I won't worry about it.

But the other weird thing about some parts of Mexico, is they never seem to know why someone died. People there just die, even young ones. Here we have the autopsy, tests, etc. There, they just bury them.

I'm always wondering if it was because the chicken was left out all day.

Believer....how do you do it...you have such great insights....I always look for your posts. I just know there is gold there!

Daisy

If you heat it and don't take the lid off, it is a sterile environment so should not "go bad" during the day. On the other hand, a typical pot with lid is not a true hermetical seal so there is a partial pressure differential of bacteria on the outside which would tend to make them want to try to get in. I did study partial pressures of gases and liquid phases but I never studied partial pressures of bacteria. Safer just to refrigerate.

I could go for a good mole right now. In very few countries on earth do people obsess so with cause of death as in the USA. Since it (that and taxes as they say) was inevitable anyway, what difference does "why" make?

We want to know why the people died, so that we can prevent it next time if possible, and have people live longer, so that they can pay taxes longer!

The preceeding message has been brought to you by the IRS. And they thank you for your support.

This thread is cracking me up.

By the way, to answer your question, the best time to post is weekday mornings. It is 9:00PM here, so about 11 to 13 hours from now, but on weekdays.

I do believe you are a little slap happy.

Why didn't you simply buy two DP and give one to WW? Never mind, I know. You are a nice guy.

And, BTW, I don't mind talking about dead chickens, bad water, Dominos pizza, DP, Lipton Tea, autopsies, beer(!), Mexico, vending machines and refrigerators. But, let's keep the IRS out of this thread!

Traicionado...I am sorry about your little girl having food poisoning...Scary....Hey, I did not know they had Domino's in Saudi Arabia...wow,,,,cool...
I had never left anything overnight out of the refrigerator. We are so scared in my family to get food poisoning,that we take all measures to prevent it. But, yeah, I can see the bright side that you see too. YOu were all together, as a family...nice. I am sure your daughter will be much better tomorrow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Like I said before..I never showed my husband any signs of withdrawal. I hid them from him. I thought it would hurt him more, if he saw me crying or suffering for stupid OM. Maybe your wife is doing the same thing? I am sure she misses him still. has not been that long. But it will be less and less every day. One question...if you find out that she has been talking to him on the phone...would you kick her out the door? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Thats a good time limit you are putting to your situation...six months is more than enough for your wife to show improvement signs. And she should also open up more to you, talking.being more affective,etc. Just have patience with her. Was she a big talker before the Affair? Cause, I never was, but after the Affair, my husband had a top priority for me to be talking 24/7, and I was never like that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

No, I dont think Gemela sees herself as the victim. Not at all! She knows what she did, and she knows it was wrong. The victims here are you, and your daughters....and Gemela was the victim of OM.

I hope you have a good night sleep and everything is better tomorrow for all in your home.

Take care

Myrta

Well that is a tough one. Plan A says don't do it but Plan A also says place time limit. If you look at time since D-day, 6 months is already up so, if she is still talking to him on the phone, I think the simple answer is that she has no intention of ever stopping, no intention of ever taking the M seriously and no intention of ever reconciling with me. If she were serious about trying, she wouldn't call or talk to him. Do I absolutely have to kick her out? No. Is there any reason to let her stay? None that I can think of for the reasons I just mentioned. Why shouldn't I kick her out and get on with my life? What is the reason I would let her stay if she is maintaining contact? Could there be a reason that makes any sense?

What would you suggest I do and why? All I risk losing is an unfaithful wife? Throw me a bone here. What is my motivation?

Myrta, believer, anybody?

"have patience with gemela". Hmmm.... Where exactly have I been failing in that lately? I think being patient is the only thing I have been doing lately (according to cc46 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Let me ask one question. So far I have had to swallow everything, bear everything, suffer everything for WW and M and DDs. Will there ever come a time when I will be able to start healing this hole I have in my chest? Are we BS's ever allowed to recover? Or is this simply something I am going to have to get used to living with the rest of my life? I hate to sound so selfish and it is probably just lack of sleep but I have not known what R is for some time now. I believe it is something I still hope for but I am not sure exactly what it is any more.

Okay, never mind. I am just feeling sorry for myself. Just don't even think about it Bigger. I don't want to give you the pleasure <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I will still pose this question, however: Are we BS's ever allowed to recover?

Just ignore everything above that.

You have earned the right to feel sorry for yourself. Go ahead and enjoy it. Thank your lucky stars the Bigger is not here.

Plan A is six months after A ends I think; not six months past DDay. BS are allowed to recover. That's why the time limit. Everyone has their own fuse however. You have to find the balance that keeps you on Plan A for as long as possible but ends Plan A before you go crazy. Also, a strict Plan A has you on AD's to ease things a little.

Well then we have a major misunderstanding because I didn't think that at all. I thought R was after the A ended. I must have this process all mixed up. I thought Plan A was while A was still on-going. I need to go back and study SAA. Maybe I just don't remember what Plan A is supposed to be.

You may well be correct. I am working with memory here and you know about my memory. I cannot grab my copy of SAA because WW hid it. Maybe threw it away.