Hey KiwiJ,

If there is, I cannot see it but I think Myrta may have had the key. For some reason I think Myrta understands gemela.

I wish that gemela would communicate more with me. There is nothing to fear. I won't end the M because she is sad for the OM. The irony is that I might end the M if I am convinced she is not. She should be sad for OM. That would be "normal" behavior. The STBWW I married would be.

Note: so as not to confuse, at the time I married gemela, she was neither W nor WW but STBWW so I wrote that as a time-sensitive comment. Now she has dropped the STB, gone from W to WW, given me the STD and, hopefully, on the way to FWW. I will give her an "F" for her performance so far but not one she that can add to her acronym.

Historical note: At the time I married WW in the church, she was legally W. Complicated Mexican laws...

I am not saying that vomiting is a great Plan A strategy - I am simply saying that, if you have to throw up, try your best to do it in a non-LB'ish kind of way.

Myrta sure does have the key. She understands a young Mexican woman and her culture. I'm so pleased she accepted my call for help.

I have also been reading gemela's posts which is why I said what I said.

Traic, you're such a good guy. You're intelligent and funny, but realistic, which is a huge plus when dealing all this crap and you deserve a good marriage.

KiwiJ,

So if I need to put this M on a resumé, I guess I can count on you for a good reference? I promise to keep the Ipecac in my pocket!

No, seriously. I have not given up on gemela yet. I don't believe I have found the right combination of Plan A just yet though. I think that there should be a Latina version of SAA which accounts for BT's and CI's. I think (and gemela has told me once) that I may have been too nice to her.

Regardless, Plan A has been good for me personally. There were things I could have changed and now have. It is funny because I see so many families all around and our (WW and I) impression of the H is that he is a big jerk. I was never as bad as most - even WW will admit to that. During the A, she frequently compared me to other H's she knows and I always came out well on top according to her. But they are not my benchmark. I am my own standard. I am glad I found SAA and Plan A. I really like me even if WW doesn't. That is just her loss.

Traicionado,

You did great. No LBs in my opinion.

I didn't say she WAS talking to anyone, I was wondering who she was talking to. You have the impression it's SIL.

Do you think Gemela is strong enough to keep everything to herself?

At least something happened. The vomiting aside, maybe we'll now get some reaction from her.

Hope you all get better. Vomiting is usually good for you, in the sense that it's very efficient for getting rid of whatever is hurting you but it can be very exhausting. Try not to exagerate it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I really doubt it's an LB, but maybe I'll ask Dr. Harley, because it's exactly what I fear I will do if I see WH!

Today's my 20th wedding anniversary. I'll make it a pecial day for myself.

MC cum IC was a bust. Computer glitch so no appointment. All that for nothing.....

MC just called and will reschedule for next week and let me know.

WW is sick. I am too but she is worse.

Is she strong enough? Don't know. I know she is strong enough to try. MIL would be her role model and she is one tough ....

I think if WW does try to hold it inside, she will eventually have a breakdown - but it could take quite a while.

Happy Anniversary! Maybe some day we will reach 20....

I'm sorry you are all sick. Sometimes everything seems to go wrong...

I'll have a happy anniversary, I feel happy. Thank you.
I think you have a good chance to get to 20.

Traicionado...so sorry you are all sick....it seems you got a stomach virus, probably the girls got it in school and brought it to you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Hope you get better soon!!

About Gemela,,and withdrawal....she is going thru it, just like Kiwi says. She is just not showing, she might be embarrass, does not want to hurt you more(just like I was) or any other reason. But it seems she is going thru withdrawal within herself. Dont be so worry if she isnot showing you the "typical signs". She might not be so expressive as to show pain, or discomfort in front of others, especially that kind of "pain"!!

Traicionado...it was sooooooooooo embarrassing for me, for my husband to see me down because of OM. I kept the pain to myself. I remember just a couple of times, that I somewhat showed him my pain for OM. Other than that, I put on a positive,"normal" face in front of him. He thougth at the time, I was not actively working in recovering our marriage, but I surely was!!!

The way she holds you, or shows her concern when you are sick, tells me that she wants you. That she cares and loves you, but please, she must go thru her grieving normal process, even if its in silence.!!

It was a good thing that you talked about your concern with her. You dont have to be so hesitant to talk about what bothers you. And again, its normal to get angry, even if its against "Dr,Harley's" views. Its normal to show anger, dissapointment after finding out an Affair. YOu have to have no hot blood in you, to show the WW always a happy,dont want to hurt you,face. always trying to fill her ENs even if they are behaving like monsters!! Not normal...sorry.

I have seen my husband sadness,anger,LBs,etc,etc, and I have survived!! None of those things killed me..I deserved all of it, after I did what I did. Those displays of his emotions, cleanse his soul and spirit and made him a better husband to me, and me a better wife for him.

Sorry about the mishap with your MC. Hopefully you will have it next week. Anyways, it was a good thing since you are both sick and probably not up to it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Take care.\\

Myrta

Thanks Myrta,

I am not worried about the MC. I have said before that I don't believe in coincidence and this worked out great. If I had gone by myself, I am sure I would have been angry with gemela for not being there. In fact, I really half expected to see her car there when I walked in. On the other hand, I knew that DD2 was home sick and, if gemela had left her alone to go to MC, well I REALLY would have been mad. This was great because bow we will have MC next week or week after for the first time in a long time and I know there is no way that gemela will miss it. It worked out great.

Everything you say about gemela makes sense. Even when some people were telling me her actions proved she was still in contact, I always wondered if it might not be something else. I know her very well and she is a very strong person. She is patterned after MIL and I don't think MIL has ever complained once in her life to anyone about anything. I have to admit, MIL is my role model too. In fact, several months ago when the only thing keeping on this journey was DDs and the hope that they could have a complete family, I always remembered MIL and her plight and all she suffered for her children. Geez - talk about guilt.

But I have changed during this time and now I do have hope for something better. Time will tell. I think gemela needs to talk to someone. To be honest, I truly wish she would go to confession but maybe it is too soon. I am not saying the padre will be much help but she needs to confess this for herself. That would be huge. I don't think she yet understands the value of MB. My hope was to get her here just to vent initially and then maybe start to exchange ideas. I still hope she does that. Our weekend starts tonight so I will try to get gemela to post some more. It is hard to get her to post at the best times of the day when others are online. Hopefully, once she begins to realize the value of MB, she will adjust her schedule a bit.

In spite of Plan A and LB's and DJ's, I think maybe it is good that gemela sees me mad sometimes. The reason I say that is that I seem to be dealing with anger much differently than I used to. I think I deal with it in a much "healthier" way. I used to be slow to anger but, once there, took me a while to get over it. Now I just get mad and get over it. I have also taken a much different view of life in general since coming to Saudi. It is also good that the company puts family first in everything. We don't get rewarded for working extra hours - we get reprimanded. If we can't do our job in 8 hours, we are just not being very efficient. We manage 1/4 of the world's oil reserves and at 4:00PM we become a ghost town. Simply amazing. Anyway, I get to finally spend time with DD's. When I was in Dubai, I usually did not get home in time to even tuck them into bed - and now Dubai would be far worse than it was then.

I don't think I will be looking for any cellphones. If I find that contact is still occurring, I think I will call OM's parents again just to make sure they understand what is going on - assuming they take my call. If not, I have other - maybe better - ways to let them know. I will also ask all of you whether I should expose to FIL although I really hate to do that except as a last resort. I don't know why he is this way but gemela is his favorite of the two girls. He always treated SIL as a second class citizen. Gemela is his little angel so I would hate to tarnish her halo for him.

I agree with Myrta. I really wish you could have seen her posts very early in her career here. She was quite fascinating, and a real spitfire. Her husband was going crazy.

I think your wife doesn't post here because she doesn't want to hear from people who tell her to forget the OM and save her marriage. That is just the way these WS's are for awhile.

traicionado,

As you know, I recently exposed WW to FIL. WW is also his favorite daughter of five. It crushed him. According to sons, she is now avoiding FIL at all costs. It was a calculated risk on my part. My situation has some similarities to yours and some differences. I refused to follow Plan A while WW was still seeing OM. She had no remorse. Telling a Latin FIL is a huge step but one that I saw as essential because WW was starting to loose her sons in the process. I will advise that you keep it as dry powder for now.

believer,

I saw this very early on when she would seek out friends and family to explain her sitch hoping that she could get people to say it was okay to run off with OM. She selectively contacted friends with problem marriages and almost all of them told her to forget the OM and get her head out of her culo and get back to her marriage. She always stopped talking to them afterward. She desperately sought out enablers and found them few and far between.

I made it very clear to her when I first suggested she post that she was not going to find enablers and that MB was pro-marriage. I told her the only reason for her to post is so that she can share what she is feeling with people who have been in her situation and can help her understand what she is going through - so that she can understand that she is not as alone as she feels. I don't think she yet understands that MB can help her. That is what I was told anyway. I don't read her posts so have no idea what she says. I am not even tempted any more.

That is how they are.

It was really refreshing to read how your company values the family. That is very unusual. Oh, sure, lots of places say they value it, but their policies contradict it. They encourage long hours, company trips away from home, without spouses, staying in hotels, etc.

I'm sensitive to these things because my sister's marriage was broken up by her adultery. She was required to go from Oregon to San Francisco for 3 months of training, leaving her husband at home. They all stayed in a hotel, and dinners, drinks together, etc. was encouraged.

Traicionado....just got back from a ballet......Sleeping Beauty with the ballet of Moscow. REally beautiful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Stanley was falling asleep, but he still enjoyed it too.

I am glad you are seeing such positive out of the "fiasco" of the MC, Thats they way to be!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I am sure like you say, Gemela is a strong woman. And she could be really having it tough, but not showing it. And if she has such good role model...then maybe she is that way too. She can make it thru this with flying colors, just like me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. I have three sisters, older than me and one brother older too, and none of them knows about my Affair. I would die if they would find out!! And if my parents knew, especially my dad..

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I would want to be swallowed by the earth!! I could not look at him or them on the eyes. We never disclosed to anyone, no need to, since the affair finished right on DD!!
Traicionado...it would so embarrassing for Gemela for her dad to know...especially if she is his favorite! He probably has her on a pedestal. Just like my parents have me.

I agree with you, that Gemela should see you mad once in a while.Just normal behaviour, you have to get mad and show it
otherwise, you would explode. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> And also when the anger comes out, you dont hold the ugly resentment inside of you, that eventually will kill the marriage for good.

I dont think she has any cell phone...The OM here, offered me one, but I never accepted it. I was to scared for my husband to find out. I got tempted, not going to deny it, but did not do it. Because I wanted my marriage to get better and be recovered completely. So dont worry about that for now..

Saudi Arabia sounds like a good place to be!! Sounds cool, fun! You know, I have three friends from Saudi, that I used to visit a lot. They all lived together with their husbands and kids,because like you say, family is extremely important to them. They used to tell me, that in Saudi all the families live close by, or with each other,forever!! Really pretty way to be. They had great ,vivacious personalities. They would invite me to parties only for "women"and they would "transform" into these femme fatales". They would dress up, put so much makeup, jewerly.It was such a contradiction of their usual way to dress. It was crazy!! I have not visit with them for some years now,,,they were going back to their country. They were here for their studies. It was nice...they would tell me that I was their sister too.

By the way I dont live in Iceland...I live in Washington,Dc!!

Myrta

Career??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

But yes I was a bad,confused WW. But thanks to some posters here, I made it..Especially you Believer! YOu helped me and encouraged me so much. Thank you!

I think Gemela does not post here, because she feels there is no need to. I did not want to post at the beginning too. Stanley had to tell me,many many times. Then I started to read some of the things posters will say, and that got me angry and pushed me to post....to defend myself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Myrta

Oh Myrta - you were a classic. I used to love reading your posts! I especially liked it when you and JL would get into it, and when you would throw folks off your threads. You are a good woman, and have a lot of spunk.

Thanks for passing it on and helping Traicionado. I do think you are right in advising him not to expose it to his FIL. See - you changed my mind - I used to tell your husband to expose, but that is before I understood.

Sounds like you have gotten a good snapshot of Arab women in general. That is typical.

Arab families tend to live together in multiple generations. Those that can afford it build huge housing compounds and keep almost everyone in it. Arabs take care of their families. Not like the USA (where I am from) where you turn 18 and the ties begin to be cut. If I had to live like an Arab, I would go insane because I was not brought up that way. They are brought up that way and it is good to see. I admire them for that. If my mother had to live with her mother all her life, one would have been murdered and the other in prison. Can't say which was which. (and Mother, I know you are reading this and you can't deny it!)

I wish I lived in Iceland. On the other hand, it might be difficult because of the language. I am guessing Icelandic must be one of the hardest languages on earth to learn because only about 300,000 people speak it. One of the only harder languages must be that one spoken in South Africa that only 23 people speak (according to Discovery Channel). Chinese must be really easy to learn because over 1 billion people speak it. Think I'll move to Shekou. I used to think Spanish was hard but on our last trip to Mexico I saw little kids speaking it. If a two year old can speak it, it can't be that hard. On the other hand, a language with only 23 speakers must be really limiting on the job market. For example, not much need for a network TV anchor, is there?

WW and DDs are much better now. They picked me up from work and we went to finalize arrangements for DDs Bday this Friday. The DD1 had asked to go play "golf" which means driving range so we went home and changed. WW just put on her oxford golf shoes with her grey t-shirt and flare bottom mid-calf jeans. I didn't care but I asked her if she had seen herself in a mirror in a joking way. She replied "I KNOW! but I was in a hurry!". I was just teasing her but she was upstairs and down I swear in less than thirty seconds in black slacks and a Burberry shirt all matching (and laughing). [I knew she would change. That is an easy button to push.] We got the cart out and the neighbor saw her and said hello. When we left she said "thank goodness I changed clothes! How embarassing if he had seen me in my jeans!".

We got in 4 holes before dark and two holes in the dark and then went home. We learned tonight that only the back nine holes is lit.

We had something to eat (I had not eaten since yesterday - a few saltines as I remember) and then got ready for bed. She was on her side and I on mine with DD1 in between us. After a few minutes she told DD1 to go wash her hands and brush her teeth. As soon as DD1 got up, she moved over to my side and put her head on my chest to watch TV. Friends was on and it was a multi-part episode where they were playing a "what if" thing. Monica was fat, Ross was married, etc. Anyway, We are watching and Rachel meets Joey the famous actor and gets invited to his apartment and drinks too much. Wakes up next day saying she was so wrong to have gone there, she is a married woman, she almost had an affair, had to leave, etc. It was only then that it occurred to me that the program was about infidelity. I usually can't watch programs about it any more which significantly limits my program options. I generally have a strong reaction to it and now I was really afraid I was going to have one about this program but WW was still holding me so I just kept very still. Oddly enough, It didn't really trigger much.

Rachel goes back home and finds her dentist husband in bed with another woman so goes back to the coffee house to find Joey to have a revenge affair but finds Ross. She talks to Ross and I don't remember what all she says but she is blaming men in general for being unfaithful by nature. This is the part I do remember. Ross says something like "some men will do anything to make their marriage a success". I wasn't even sure WW was listening but she turned her head to look at me and says "is that true, honey?" and kisses me on the cheek and then hugs me tight.

We sent DDs off to bed and she went and tucked them in. I was watching American Idol. She got back in bed and grabbed my hand and was holding it. I wasn't wearing my Diesel boxer shorts or anything. Just minding my own business but after a few minutes she attacked me.

Today will be a quiet day so I will try to get gemela to post (and maybe even read some of yours).

I'm glad you are all better and somethings is happening....

BTW do you think Gemela reads your posts here?

Traicionado....I can see things improving so much between you and Gemela. She is getting close to you, looking for your warmth and strenght <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. I am so happy for you, and so proud that another WW will be a FWW soon! She is on her way to recovery with you. She wants her marriage, she wants her husband. Did you liked that she attacked you and snuggled to you? I hope you did!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

How many hours or days ahead are you from United States? Seems like lots from the way you talk.
So how many kids are you having for daughter's Birthday party? How old are the girls?

Is a good thing, you did not get triggered with "Friends". I think those triggers are funny, sometimes a person gets them, sometimes not. Depends on the "mood" or raport with the spouse at the time. My husband used to get them a lot at the beginning, but hardly any more. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Glad you are all feeling better!!

Myrta

P.S. I hope Gemela posts tonight!