I don't mind telling people where I'm from, but this is a small population and I've very easily identified not only because of my profession, the languages I speak AND the situation, because I don't hide it at all

Just don't want it to be on here

You have been gardening a bit lately. I guess you must be a really bad gardener. The type that puts down seeds in the morning and then expects flowers before noon. Not happening. Good things come slowly. And believe me – from where you were you have good things coming your way.

From what I can read from your posts and Gemela’s (as translated by Babel fish) you two are on the right path. Remember the Bigger talk? One of the main purposes there is to try to get both parties to walk together along the same path. At the moment you two are walking in the same direction. Probably on parallel paths. Carry on with some slight improvements and soon you will be walking on the same path.

I know you have issues with the 15 hour rule. For many women time spent with family is time spent together. So if the best you can do with your wife is, say, 8 hours per week then fill in the missing 7 with family time. That means you and wife in same area but you maybe helping DD with homework. That might all of you in board games. That might be all four making, setting the table, eating and clearing up after dinner. Remember the time with W is not forced time. You don’t have to trudge off to the golf course to finish the compulsory 9 just to be together.

What’s this Plan B talk? For you Plan B is not an option. You will probably react exactly like I did when I caught my fiancé. I kicked her out of my life. Plan Z if you will. I for one will lean over backwards for Plan A but once it reaches Plan B stage I see it more as a period of recovery for me rather than a period of giving the relationship a chance.

Keeping your mind in “what if” and worst case scenarios is not constructive. Sure – sit down and make some plans and have some thoughts about what-ifs. Then shelf them. I guess you have health and life insurance. Did you sit for hours thinking of “what ifs”? What if a meteor hits me, what if I get shot, what if an elephant sits on me? Doubt it. Probably just bought the policy and don’t dwell on it. Do the same with your Worst Case plans. Make them and shelf them. Don’t dwell on them.

And honestly – for a long time the OM has been a moot issue. If your wife leaves it will not be for OM but because she is rejecting you. So now you are competing against YOU not the OM.

T - The reason I posted the Love Must Be Tough thing is for you to realize that you do have other options. Right now, you are still in Plan A, and that is where you need to be. Around July 4 (Independence Day), you can start the tough love thing. Plan B would be difficult in your situation.

That is the day where you let Miss Gemela know that you are not the warden, and if she finds living with you so objectionable, she is free.

Right now she is at that withdrawal from the fantasy point where she sees lots of faults in YOU, but not in herself.

I think Traicionado and Gemela are in recovery. They are just in the early stages of recovery and it does not show. But they are crawling thru...

Gemela is in withdrawal right now, but she is, where she is supposed to be. She is doing pretty well to be so early since last contact with OM.

Traicionado has to be patient and hang in there. He cannot lose hope so early in the "game"!

Myrta

Hey traicionado? whay have you abandoned this thread?

How are things?

Just following your advice.

How do you feel? notice any changes? In yourself or Gemela?

No I don't notice any changes. Gemela is pleasant enough. We don't fight but then we haven't fought in a long time. I think you are absolutely right. I think it has taken me a long time to figure this out but I guess I was trying to work really hard trying to rescue a relationship and marriage that is already dead. I still love gemela but finally understand now that she doesn't love me and is never going to and probably never really did to begin with.

I am still working on my best Plan A but now I am only doing it for me - or trying to any way. I guess nothing has really changed except that I think I have lost hope. Maybe that is good in a way. Without hope there is no disappointment.

I read a thread yesterday where some MB expert said that almost no marriages ever recover from Plan A and I have had several people say I will not be able to do a Plan B so that has also given me more to think about.

The day before yesterday was a really hard day. I got up early (lots of work) and started to call a taxi to take me but I woke gemela up instead. We talked for about an hour so I did not get in early as I needed. That was fine. I preferred we talk. I think that is what still concerns me. I have said that the only requirements I have are NC and communication with me. So far I see no evidence she has violated NC. She does not communicate with me even though she had promised she would. Without communication, I can't see us getting anywhere.

I did make a decision though. If I ever catch her break NC again, that will be the last time. We will immediately separate and file for divorce. I have not told her that. I don't need to. I think she fully understands it already.

I don't think I am giving up - at least not yet. But I do know that I am beginning not to care that much one way or the other. Somewhat apathetic to the whole recovered marriage thing maybe. I don't know. Maybe in a few more months gemela will begin to get over the OM and will take more interest in the M. I don't have any idea. I feel like I am hitting her tennis balls and she won't hit back. My basket of balls is running low.

Traicionado....You have to understand that your wife is behaving pretty accurate and natural after coming out of an affair. The fact that she is showing No love right now to you does not mean she does not feel that way. Traicionado, it takes a while,sometimes short,sometimes long,before a WW gets those emotions that she felt for OM out of her system. Your wife is pretty young, it could take her a bit long. She knows the OM is no good for her. She wants to try to make it work with you. YOu have to be more talkative with her, you have to show her you want to keep her and that you love her.

It seems like you could be somewhat depressed and thats why the apathy is setting in so fast. You should be in a frenzy right now, trying to make your wife fall back in love with you. Your wife is not going to break the NC agreement . I dont think she has any plans of running away, or calling the OM. She wants to see reasons to stay there,
for you and your girls.
Try to be more positive and happy with her Traicionado. You love her, no? If you dont, then you should change your signature at the end of all your posts!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I know you do,so please try to have more hope for your relationship and marriage. YOu have many years already with Gemela and two little girls to think about!

Myrta,

I have been doing my best up till now and I have no plans to change that. cc46 is right. Plan A is about me and gemela be stuffed. I don't mean that in the way it sounds. I mean that gemela cannot dictate my Plan A. She could influence it if she were to fill out the EN survey or, at the very least, communicate with me.

Yes I probably am a little depressed. I don't have a lot to be happy about right now except my DDs. They make me happy. That is why I prefer to spend time with them more so than gemela.

What do you mean Gemela cannot dictate your Plan A? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
And what do you mean by you and Gemela been stuffed?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I mean Plan A is about me being a better husband and father. I am no longer going to pretend we are happily married. Gemela is not interested in discussing what her problems or issues have been previously. She is not interested in talking at all. Therefore I have to set my own course. If she does not want to participate, I have to do the best I can with what I have. That is all I am trying to say. Don't read too much into it. I already said I did not mean it the way it sounded. I just don't have a better way to say it.

I'll give some examples:

1) bought WW flowers a couple of days ago. Wish I hadn't.
2) Took her out to dinner. Wish I hadn't.

She is not interested in being with me. She is not interested in romantic gestures from me. Anything I try to do romantically drives her further away. I see it every time. It appears that me being too nice to her is what makes her more anxious to leave. Call me crazy but that is my perception.

After the Affair, NO ONE is happily married. Thats why you have to work so hard to achieve that. My husband wanted to give up many,many times, trust me. It was scary.....but we did the BEST possible, to make it thru those first months,because we knew it will eventually get better.

The problems or issues pre=Affair are very common for most WWs. Our perception is that we are missing something, we are going thru issues, childhood. Maybe your wife was feeling overwhelmed with the girls,Saudi Arabia,too much time on her hands or any other thing.
The thing is ,that she is out of the Affair today, and she is very willing to make it work. You have to take this opportunity to make your marriage work again. She is participating, Traicionado. She could leave Saudi Arabia and go to Mexico, if she so wishes. She wants to stay there to make it work!!

She feels undeserving of those attentions. I felt that way too, it lessens with time. YOu have to keep on showing her that you love her. YOu know....I used to be not so receptive with those types of showings of love from my husband, but I loved them at the same time!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I felt so wanted ,so loved, so important. Thats whats all about!

I am not denying she could leave any time. I am not denying she is choosing to be here because I have never tried to keep her from leaving.

I am saying that I get a negative reaction from her every time I try to do anything that is in the slightest bit romantic. I am like a dog being house-trained. I do something, get swatted for it, eventually I learn to stop doing it - hopefully before I need to replace the carpet.

I do love her. I tell her that. I show her that in ways I can. Romance is something that pushes her away.

Yes, that hurt Stanley a lot too. It broke myheart ,but I did pushed him away with my reactions . Just do things but in a more cool kind of way. NOt looking needy or clingy. I hated to see my husband clingy and needing me so much. It scared me, to tell you the truth. He was not like that before the Affair. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Myrta,

Rest assured that I am still totally interested in saving my marriage, if at all possible. I have not thrown in the towel yet. I do see some brilliance in what cc46 has told me. I am totally confused by tough love but am working on trying to understand it because it seems to conflict with SAA somewhat. Maybe that is just because I don't fully understand it. To be honest, I am somewhat confused overall. Probably a little depressed too but I think several of you have shown me a path out of it.

I don't agree though that, if gemela leaves, she will go to Mexico. I think if she leaves, it will be straight for OM. Just my opinion. There is nothing for her in Mexico. At least with OM, she believes she will find peace and happiness. If she goes to Mexico, she loses everything - and I am not talking about the DDs. I am talking about love, respect, happiness, self-worth - everything she values.

Sheesh! I slept through this whole conversation! I'm sorry! But I do have to sleep when it's night!


Traicionado, I think that you are NOW reacting just as you should. Before you were on a quest to save your marriage as though it were a mission, and that's great! I wish more BS could face the first stage that way. Like Bob did.

But when you've done everything you could and the OM "is no longer around", exposure has occurred etc. what are you left with? I think that you have a wife who is very confused, has decided to stay with you, but does not give up the OM in her mind, and everuthing seems to stall. This is my impression.
Nothing happens.

So this is the hard part. I know how you feel. But one thing I've learned here is that feelings change from day to day and moment to moment. Your committment won't. Your ove won't, you just don't feel it. So please don't tell me you have lost HOPE. That is the worst thing that can happen. Don't lose hope. It only depends on YOU. YOU CAN HAVE HOPE IF YOU WANT TO HAVE HOPE. It depends on your faith, belief systems, and probably a ton of other stuff, but for me it is the most IMPORTANT single feeling or belief involved.

I haven't lost hope of a successful ending to this story and by that I don't mean recovering my marriage because I have changed and I have serious doubts about wanting my H back, but he may change too, so who knows.

So please have hope, based on Dr. Harley's experience with thousands of couples and marriages, the experiences you have read here, and many others who say the same thing that Dr. Harley says (believe me I researched, and that's my job!).

So where are you? First you have to believe you are in a plan. It is very important that you convince yourself that you are in a plan, and not just trying things out or going with the flow.

2nd. According to Dr. Harley, when the BS starts to lose their love for the WS it's best to go to plan B. (And in that sense I usually agree with Lemonman) but in your case I don't think you should. I believe you have missed one very important part of plan A which is to do it for yourself. Because it is important that the WS see that you can be a great person no matter WHAT they do or say.

You haven't got it yet. You bought Gemela flowers. and now you regret it. WRONG. You should have done it because YOU wanted to and whatever her reactionyou should have been happy about it. That's plan A. That's YOU being a great person, see?

Who cares what she thinks or does, UNTIL SHE STARTS WANTING TO BE INVOLVED and at that point you will start recovery.

Have to run to work... I'll try to continue later. Sorry

I think ADs would help you. Things have been going on for too long. Think about it.