The last phone call with Jennifer did not go as planned or as I needed for that matter.
When she had called prior to the reschedule she said she wanted to speak with both of us together before giving advice so it was a team effort.
The call turned into a 1-1/2 long of which I got a rushed two minutes at the end. WW was exhausted and foggy as ever after the call. WW took no notes and did not want to talk to me much about the call.
I have no plan or any idea what the phone call consisted of. I have no idea what to do. When I mentioned RO to Jennifer she presented to WW as something we should do together as a result of OM contact. I feel All that did was scare WW into not telling me about contact.
Your expectations are unrealistic...as I said on your thread on the Recovery board. First, if Jennifer took the whole time with her, then it was needed. Remember, you know all of this stuff...your WW does not. Jennifer and Steve are experts at this. I remember when Steve talked to my foggy wife. She said the same stuff yours did about it being crap and there was nothing wrong with her. Do you know what the key will be to her accepting this MB stuff? it will be how YOU handle things next. If you are willing to compromise with her, then she will believe in NONE of it! You will have to remain on message (which is what has gotten you to this point!). Stay on the same message you have, that Steve told her, that Jennifer told her. It doesnt matter what they think they believe in the fog. Remember, she thought the OM was such a great guy that she abandoned her morals and her family. And she has started realizing how wrong she has been!
How should I go get a restraining order that WW does not want and will not sign on for?
How do I get a PFS when WW will not sign on for that either?
Restraining order for you and your daughter and your house. Your wife can be included later! By having it, then it will be easier for her, as she will see you protecting yourself and daughter from the OM. And then she will begin to believe that you can do that for her also.
WW was really fogged over last night telling me that she don't think she don't feel anything for me yet and she made the wrong choice.
Until NC happens and withdrawal is over, then this will continue Dazed. Recovery is not possible until NC and withdrawal.
I reminded her of how important NO CONTACT is the first thing that must happen for feelings to come back or us or anything to work.
I asked about contact and she would not talk anymore. I asked where the cell phone is and she would not answer.
I reinforced to her again that contact only resets the clock with us. I also told to not be scared to tell me about it and her feelings even if they are about him.
I don't know what to do right now... TODAY... I have not responded to her last email...
You do know what to do Dazed. You must protect her. you must continue to insist upon no contact. And you must continue your Plan A, but moving forward (with or without her). She is moving in your direction. As Lexxxy said on the other thread, you will have to walk the tight rope!
She sent me several more messages today...
here is...
________________________
Dazed,
i know i have hurt your feelings again-
do u wanna tell me what u r thinking
or how u r feeling?
Mrs.Dazed
____________________
MY REPLY
WW, I know you are confused and your feelings are mixed up. I believe you want it stop though. I think you want to get past feeling mixed up and confused. Don't you?
As long as you are totally open and honest with me I feel closer to you and trusting of you. Not angry. It may hurt me at times to hear what has happened or what you have felt or are feeling. It may hurt both of us at times to talk about things but it is SO IMPORTANT that we do it.
This is part of you and us healing together. Don't ever be afraid to share your thoughts with me... THANK YOU so much for asking for mine.
You may feel weird telling me your inner most thoughts even if at times they are about him. You can tell me about this and your thoughts. Know that you are not alone Jean....
Even if I don't like the fact you had a relationship and have mixed up feelings about another man, the fact it is real. I love you enough to get past that and help you do the same in order for us to have a relationship and marriage that we both want.
Dazed
____________________
Her Reply
Dazed,
well, but what do u think
about me thinking that im not
sure if i wanna make it work &
stuff like that? i kinda feel like
all the influence of everyone
telling me what to do & how I am
this bad person--maybe i didnt really do what i wanted..ya know?
Mrs.Dazed
_________________________
REPLY
Mrs.Dazed,
Do not think about working on anything between us right now. I am not ready for that and I am sure you are not either.
You mentioned yesterday about what is expected from you. There is nothing being expected right now. Like you said you have been doing your best to be friendly and positive. You have been doing a great job... Really you have.
I feel that no contact is the first thing that must happen. Nothing else is possible until that happens. Nothing!!
Remember some of the things Jennifer talked to you about.
I am willing to do what ever it takes to protect you from contact so you have a chance to begin healing.
Dazed
____________________
HER REPLY
I dont want tt Jennifer anymore-
i think it is a joke & a huge waste of
$$--if u wanna throw away 185 a time,
just put it in a sav. acct for DD12-
im not going to listen to that cult stuff anymore. maybe someday--but not now-- i cant see the point in throwing away all that cash for nothing--counselors are a joke they do not help & are a waste of money.
that is what i think.
why do u think I need" Healed?"---do u think i need a exorcism too...i am not sick or have cancer....
Dazed, first off...by reminding her of what Jennifer said, you are actually pushing her away from Jennifer. You are educating your wife. Not directly...but by continually saying "remember what Jennifer said." Last I checked, your mantra isnt "remember what Jennifer said." You have to stop educating her. No person wants to think horribly of themselves. She knows she is wrong. But she also needs to save face. That doesnt mean white wash it. It means just be quiet for awhile. Listen to her. Tell her you understand.
Why do you think she sent these text messages, Dazed? To have you tell her how wrong she is? To have her tell her what she should do? No. She knows all of that! She is looking for ONE PERSON in her life that isnt judging her, isnt telling her what to do. One person that is just listening! The OM isnt that person. That is why she is moving away from him.
But if you are doing the same as him (telling her to leave him, to have NC, telling her all the bad things about him, telling her how right things will be with you), then she will move away from you also. The OM is saying the same things...in reverse. So, now it is a battle of who she trusts.
Instead, what you need to do is just be there for her. Listen. Acknowledge her concerns. Here's how I would have answered one of those text messages. Mrs. dazed wrote:
Dazed,
i know i have hurt your feelings again-
do u wanna tell me what u r thinking
or how u r feeling?
Mrs.Dazed
My response: "Honey, you know what I am thinking. And I thank you for being concerned for my feelings. I still have an unshaken faith though...in the Lord and in our marriage."
Your response:
"WW, I know you are confused and your feelings are mixed up. I believe you want it stop though. I think you want to get past feeling mixed up and confused. Don't you?"
Dazed...you were educating her!
Another one of her posts:
Dazed,
well, but what do u think
about me thinking that im not
sure if i wanna make it work &
stuff like that? i kinda feel like
all the influence of everyone
telling me what to do & how I am
this bad person--maybe i didnt really do what i wanted..ya know?
Mrs.Dazed
See what she said here? She is being pulled in all directions. Everyone telling her what to do.
My response: "Honey, I am not concerned about what anyone else says. I only care what you say and how you feel. And our daughter. I know this is extremely tough on you. I know you have a lot of doubts about everything. And if you want to tell me those doubts, I am here to listen."
Your response:
"Mrs.Dazed,
Do not think about working on anything between us right now. I am not ready for that and I am sure you are not either.
You mentioned yesterday about what is expected from you. There is nothing being expected right now. Like you said you have been doing your best to be friendly and positive. You have been doing a great job... Really you have.
I feel that no contact is the first thing that must happen. Nothing else is possible until that happens. Nothing!!
Remember some of the things Jennifer talked to you about.
I am willing to do what ever it takes to protect you from contact so you have a chance to begin healing.
Dazed
Do you see the difference. In yours, you were telling her what to do. In mine, I expressed how I felt, and then told her that I was there to listen.
Dazed, this is the next phase. You are going to have to believe that inside, she knows all of this stuff. You are going to have to be the best friend she has in this world right now. The person she can work all of this stuff out with. Where she can talk without you feeling hurt (or at least showing it). Some of it will hurt you. But right now, your opportunity lies in the fact that it is YOU that she wants to talk to.
Stop educating her. Stop telling her what to do or how to do it. A long time ago, in my single days, I learned that if you just keep asking questions of women, that they will want to be with you more. Here's what I mean.
Let's say you are trying to talk to a new lady and you come up to her and say "Hey, how are you doing?" And you start up a conversation. I nthe conversation, it will go something like this:
Her: So, where do you work?"
Me: "Oh, I'm in the military at Fort Wherever. What about you?"
Her: "Oh, I am a teacher."
Me: "Really? Where at?"
Her "I teach 5th grade at Blah Blah Elemementary School."
Me: "Wow. That must be a lot of fun."
Her: "Yeah, it is. Nerve wracking sometimes. But what about you? What do you do in the Army?"
Me: "Oh, I am in the infantry. You know, I remember my 5th grade teacher. I had a crush on her. Eleven year old boys can be a hand full, I imagine."
Her: "They sure are......."
And the conversation goes on.
Notice that I kept deflecting it back to her? Dazed, this is where you need to be with your wife. Just sit back and let her talk. Dont judge. She knows what she has done and is doing is wrong. She now has heard from everyone on how to deal with all of this.
But her addiction and feelings are still fogged. So, she needs to talk them thru. YOU be the guy she talks to. Okay?
In His arms.