Mywifeilove



PERFECT...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Why break one vow for another? Which does God feel more important? My guess is neither....

A LOT of great stuff here folks... nice job Mywifeilove!!


.

Whoa...

A week on vacation and Dazed's thread jumps pages and pages...with two updates.

Dazed,

You asked for personal stuff...I went to Lake Tahoe for the first time in my life and it was amazing! Full moon, snowmobiling (first time) up to 9000 ft; paddleboat tour...a $63 entree (another first)...wonderful time. Worn out. Desperate for alone time away from DH...LOL. Harley should write MB for Vacations. Whew!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That's it for me. Thinking of you.

LA

Wow... There has been a lot going on here. I will have to come back and post more later...
I just wanted to say I'm here and reading... Just need more time to post... Things have been so busy at home and work.

I want to take some time and respond to everything that has been said here.

For what it is worth I think each one of you are right! I will explain more later...

btw~ Our 14th anniversary is tomorrow... I'm really not sure what I'm going to do. No plans made. I have one idea for a small personal gift and possibly the MB weekend at Orlando. I bet she would not like that.
One thing is for sure... I bet OM will have plans on spoiling it just like last year... Only this year, I know about him. SOB

I still have not had time to address each comment above. I understand that may disappoint or anger some. I still plan to get to that.

As for an UPDATE:

Last night the wife wanted to talk. Normally any time she "asks" for a talk, it is to bash me and or convince me that her affair was some how my fault and I still need punished for all the bad years of our marriage.

I guess you could say that I too have a real negative perception of her asking for a talk.

So, we talked for three hours or a little more. It started out light and I tried to keep it that way. However, each attempt of mine to NOT be serious she picked up on and would get angry with me.

The point is this:
She still can not deal with her anger. She has so much resentment for me that she is blinded. She confessed that at times she thinks how nice Dazed is and how she starts to think like she used to by wanting to give and allow herself to want to do something nice for me. She says, then I remember back to something that happened and I think, _uck him. Look what he did and how long I had to suffer because his head was up his butt and he did not care.

She says that she is scared to be that person again because it got her hurt. She says that she thinks that now she is not going to be that person that cares about everything and worry about every little detail.
I was thinking that this is how learned behavior. She has deleted all the mistakes she made in our marriage and can only focus on mine. Because she was hurt by trying to be a good person, now she thinks that she will not get hurt by committing herself to our marriage.

I compared this to her like the way I see it. Like she has one foot in our marriage and one foot in her affair. Now picturing this like standing in a door way half in each room. I fee this is why no growth will ever happen in our marriage until you are able to pull away from this anger and OM that is holding you down.

She said, and then that she told him too much and also feels she told me too much as well. That every time she talks to him that he reminds her of all the bad stuff she told him about me. He list off ten things each time and ask why do you want to go back to that? Why give him another chance, he had 14 years to get it right and look what he did. Why did you choose that over me? I did everything to be with you and if you would have done what you said we would have never had any problems.

I asked her if she felt it was healthy for our marriage to continue to allow someone outside of it between us.
I asked her how she feels about me each time after talking to him. She said, usually angry and dumb. Angry at me because he reminds me of all the bad stuff that did happen, and dumb for letting you talk me into coming back. Like it was not my choice. Like neither of you are any good for me and I have no say so in the matter.
The two of you are now doing the same thing. He bashes you and replays all the bad stuff I told him, which I know now I should not have. Then you and everyone else remind me of what he did and tell me how crazy he must be.

She said that each time she thinks about the past and the things he reminds her about that she has no good feelings for me.
Then NOW Dazed wakes up. Realizes he has a wife that he wants to be with. He now becomes almost Saint like and a great father and person. He does everything I wanted and it pisses me off when I think why it took so long for him to get it and realize I'm not invisible. This makes me question if it's real because I thought I knew Dazed. I lived the ho hum life that Dazed did not either see or really want to be a part of. Then after realizing it was not going to change I thought there is others out there that want to know me. Then after I find another person that wants to have a close life and do everything together and be interested in me, you seemingly over night turn on and are right there wanting everything I wanted.
It pisses me off... I suffered being the quiet good wife for year while you _ucked off our marriage. I lost so many dreams for us. I gave up so much, and I just can't forget it. I think neither of you are any good. I made him the way he is because of the lies and broken promises, and I can't make my self like you because of what you did.

I listen to most of her out pouring of emotions. I asked several questions to help get her to come up with the answers that are obvious.
How do you feel about ME after seeing or talking to him? The obvious answer can be summed up as "ANGRY". She can't let go of it and it is obvious what OM's tact is. It's a smear campaigned.
This is one area that I have allowed myself to be sum what sucked into. In the past she has bashed OM to me. I often listen, acknowledge and console her. Now she links me to his smear tact. I guess I'm guilty. She has asked me to remind her of his craziness before. It seems that I must remember to not allow any talk of him. This is tricky to be because at times she talks about him and wants to come to me to tell me what she is feeling. Then if I allow it, then I become guilty of bashing on him.

I took my time to listen to her. My comments were to defend our marriage rather than my actions. I told her many things sharing to her as my beliefs and choices. I continued to present to her that life and love are both choices. She does have the choice for either one.

She disagreed saying that you can't pick who you love because it is just something that clicks in your head and with that person.

I accepted her belief as her own choice to believe in love being uncontrollable but I told her that I don't share the same belief. To me it is a choice to love some one. The clicking part I agree with but it is a choice to allow them into your world and give them your self in return.

I asked her if she would allow and really ugly dirty scary looking man five seconds of time. She said, well not if he was really weird, however looks are not what makes people happy. I knew she would respond with that. Because not many people don't judge others by there appearance with out knowing them. It is human nature, right or wrong.
Also you have to keep in mind that her OM is very over weight and has scales and other undesirable physical problems.
Not to boast but me on the other hand... I'm physically the opposite of her OM. So she had to get that dig in on me that beauty does not matter. I directed her response that it really does to her; she was just trying to play me.

So, back to the point. When she agreed she would not give a scary guy five seconds, I said to me that is choices made to not allow the guy close enough to you to love you or you love him back. She says, I see your comparison but it's not the same...
I said, okay. Your right, it is not. I feel it is hurt and anger for us that blocks our love. For me it is hard to not allow emotions and hurt turn into anger and push you away. I totally understand how it is hard for you.
I can't imagine the pain and swirl of emotions that run threw your thoughts.
I asked her if she was happy with our relationship. She said no, are you? I said, no. She said, then why don't you file for a divorce? I was thinking good... This is where we want to go. I said, because I believe in us and our marriage working out. I don't believe it will survive your affair. It is your choice to allow me into your heart and mind and love to grow. She said; yes... the love bank thing from that cult of yours. I said, if that is what you want to call it, then something like that yes.
I choose to give my love to you. I choose to focus on what we can be together and not what we were or weren't. She said so go on and bash me if it makes you feel better.

I said, thank you. I choose not to. She said, why? I said, because it does not draw us closer together, rather drives us apart. If I pointed out all your flaws and mistakes, would you want to be near me and allow me into your life?
She did not answer. I left a pause for her to think. Then I said, this is my choice to love you with out judgment of your failures. I see the good and beautiful things you have done and are capable of. I believe in the good in you. I understand how and why you feel the way you do and why you are scared. I feel things did not get to where they are over night and they can't get to where we want them over night either.
However, I will not allow our relationship to stop and stay where it is today for ever. I know I want to be happy and I feel you do to. She said, I know I won’t be. I can't be. I will just have to settle like always and live for others not myself.
I said, I'm don't think you have to settle. I understand your fears about us. However, I feel we are done and will not grow if some things are not addressed.

I feel that OM has never gone away. By him not ever leaving the picture he is preventing us from taking another step. The choice to allow him to ground us has stopped many good things from happening. So, I feel how could we ever get where we want to go and have the love between us we both want while he is always right there ready to steal you away. I asked if she was scared to close the door to him. She said, yes. I thanked her for her honesty.
Then asked her if she thought we could move forward with him in the wings? She agreed but then said she did not know if she wanted to move forward. Then she spent some time pointing out how much I annoy her and the thought of sex with me grosses her out and how she treats me badly and then thinks later how rotten of her that was to think that bad about me. How she does not want to think that way. She does not want to be mean and angry.
I agreed. I too don't want to be mean and angry. I choose to be a kind, caring, sharing person that is not angry rather wants to be happy and loving. She said that is funny because I think our roles have reversed.

I'm now you and you are now me. It was me for years doing all the caring and sharing and loving for both of us and you were in your own little world. Now things are just the opposite. At times I think how screwed up this is and look at him being so good and I want to just hug him and then I think, #ell yeah... Take it and like it. Now it's your turn to do all the work. I paid my dues so let him pay for a while. Then I think do I want to be that kind of person. Do I want to like to see him that way? Can I be that kind of person? It is hard for me to just run to you and be happy you are here now because of all the years you weren't.
She says, it's like a guy that was crippled for years suddenly gets up and walks and now wants to run a marathon after not being able to do anything for years. That is what I see in you. I think why he just now gets up to ran... Dam him...

I let her know I understand her feelings. I asked if she was with that person that could not walk for so many years if she would celebrate his miracle and join him in that marathon. Or choose to break his legs so he was back in the same place as he was before?
She paused in silence for a moment... Then moved on.

I said, this is why I feel our marriage has so much hope. Just as you said, we have done some flip-flop of roles. For a long time we drifted apart and you over here doing all you knew how. Giving love, caring, house work, and parenting, being nice and standing up for the marriage. Now things are reversed. It is me that is over on the side you were. I think if we could just figure out how to meet in the middle can you imagine how great it would be for us?

Instead of one us caring the weight, we could be carry our marriage... That is why I see so much hope for us and I believe in our marriage. It would be a new concept for us. One I want for us so much.
Also, things like money that is another big issue would could be open and close with. So you are not left to guess what and where and why. I understand there are things we will have to overcome to get where we want to be... I get excited thinking about what we can be.

I asked her if I could help her with some of her papers from work that she brought home. She said, you never cared before about me. I just don't know if you are really you doing this. It seems forced or fake to me because the old you would have not cared. I said, I agree and understand why you feel that way.

Like any other emotional relationship talk it was exhausting and even though I think a few good things was said, I feel it was draining.

I said to her before I turned out the light and we went to sleep. That I appreciated her sharing and that tomorrow was a new day that I will start over new. Let's close this talk and start new tomorrow.

It is obvious that the affair has stalled our movement. It is obvious that OM stokes her anger towards me. Also, she is still not ready to end the affair either.

It really got her attention when I told her I would not allow this to go on forever and there is a window of opportunity. I did not threaten her to take action. I reminded her we would not survive the affair and we would never get our marriage to where we want it to go with out cutting the ties to him. I stated I married her and only her, not him and she like wise.

LAST SHOT~
Today is our 14th anniversary married.
Ideas on something to do? I'm not feeling like much. At this point I have nothing done.
I have type set our vows to put in a frame I already have. I have sent flowers every year and most special occasions. I have was thinking marriage builders week end coming up April 27th -28th.

Comments Please!

Dazed,

First--great job. As you said, the relationship talk is very draining and typically leaves you feeling very empty.

On your anniversery--get her some flowers, take her out to eat, do something "fun" with her whether that's dancing or put-put golf or whatever. You have her leaning your way, don't let up just yet. I recall that what she found in the OM was doing "fun" things. And no relation talk during the festivities.

I really feel for you but I guarantee the two of you can overcome this if you can work together and get over the past. My wife told me just a few weeks ago that she didn't want to live in the past but only to live for the future and what we could be. That's from my FWW. She is now more loving now than ever in our entire marriage of over 30 yrs.

My warmest and best wishes to your and your wife.

xring

Dazed, you asked for comments, so I am commenting......if you want to read more "atta boys" and kudos for your strength...please skip this one.

Don't worry Frank, I am not advising going to Plan B <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

You can spin this one, talk about this, analyze it, read the tea leaves....whatever.....call it "love" , fighting the "addiction" not "enforcing boundaries"....yada yada....the only UNDENIABLE TRUTH of all of this is that your WW is NOT ready to end her affair. That is plain and simple. You can get anyone you want to see "progress" in what has developed, but the fact of the matter is...SHE IS STILL IN CONTACT, SHE IS STILL IN AN AFFAIR, SHE DOES NOT WANT TO BEGIN A TRUE MARITAL RECOVERY. I sometimes cannot believe that this is really happening. Yes, you can call it delaying Plan B, or boundaries...but isn't that all semantics? What you have now is TOLERABLE DYSFUNCTION. Pretty soon, my friend, you are going to forget what "normal" is and what "healthy" is. As you continue to NOT enforce basic human expectatations you draw up a blue print for your daughter to follow in her adult life.

Dazed, as much as I know that you don't want to hear this......you should know that there is NO WAY that your wife respects you. OK, not a suprise to you or any Betrayed Spouse......but when I see you trying to engage her in conversation and ask her questions like "is it healthy for us to have another person in our marriage"?....I am awestruck. Yeah, I know I am gonna get lynched for this...so be it...it is probably time anyway.

I cannot in good conscious let someone keep serving the kool-aid on this one. It is MY OPINION that your wife does NOT believe that you have the stones or guts to stop allowing this to go on forever. She doesn't for one second believe this. The slight moment she did (with the court case), she backed off...ONLY to seize FULL control again. I believe she once again does not believe you have any intention of disallowing the cake eating. She has put you (and MUCH more importantly in my opinion your daughter) through the proverbial "ringer" and you still are standing and essentially pleading for her to come back with umpteen false recoveries and "long discussions" trying maddeningly to enlighten her of why it is not healthy for her to have another man in your marriage....I mean...come on now.

As rude as this is going to come off, I truthfully and admittedly DO NOT have any major sense of compassion for you. You are an adult, you can make adult choices and should FULLY live with the consequences of YOUR CHOICES....That is life, and you are no different than I in that respect. Your 12 year old daughter has no such free choice....and it is for her that my true sorrow lies.

OK, with respects to Plan A and B, whatever...you should do whatever the "experts" say (makes no difference to me) but I am very concerned that others may see your continuing enabling of this affair as "strength". Yes, your not divorced, and your wife is techically in the house...I will concede that....but "dysfunctional" cannot even begin to describe the life you and your daughter are living now.

Your wife does not respect you...plain as day. I don't say that as an insult, and I know that Frank or anyone else can come on and say that she really does and that you are a hero and that you are so strong...etc....ok, then prove me wrong here and NOW, answer me ...WHY YOU HAVE NOT OBTAINED A RESTRAINING ORDER ON THIS MAN AND MOVED HEAVEN AND EARTH TO KEEP HIM AWAY FROM YOUR FAMILY? WHY?

Why have you continued to NOT ENFORCE this boundary? Don't dodge this question a moment longer. You know what I think?????? I think you are so secretely overjoyed that you have your wife in the same house with you and not having divorced you that you are willing to swallow any sense of self pride and self worth to keep that intact while you try and "hope" her addiction is cured. This is conflict avoiding at it's best. It is akin to making a deal with the devil my friend.

Answer me that question and then I will forever hold my peace.

For the record, I have no opinion on Plan A?B or any of that....that has LONG since been about that...this is about an impressionable young woman who for or better or worse is going to learn to live "dysfunctionally functional"....for me, that would never been good enough...But that's just me.

Peace.

LM

Dazed,

Again, while I believe you have the listening part down...while I believe you have the meeting ENs part down...I still believe that you are not enforcing your boundaries. LM has a point here. I dont agree that your talk is all bad. But I do agree that you need to enforce boundaries.

In His rms.

LM~
I appreciate your comments. I honestly don't know what else to do. For real!
Do I write up a list of requirements that must be met for me to continue? If there not met, then there is consequences. I don't want this to be an ultimatim or selfish demand. I need help presenting this as her choice and my choice to either have a great marriage.

I told her the night before that I will not allow this relationship of ours to continue like this. I will not be someone she will just use and whip her @ss with.
I'm tired of the dysfunction myself and it is obvious that she if comfortable where she is at.

Everyone thinks she has went back to the marriage and have now embraced her again. All her co-workers have forgiven her and now her work enviroment is fun again and she is making new friends there. My family is now friendly to her again and my mother is calling her again. Even my brother has forgiven her. Her mother and family have also forgiven her all because they think she in back in the marriage.

As I have said before. I can see things have stalled and she is right back in limbo not being anything good to anyone. She is basically a figure head wife.

I have been feeling this for some time now. LM's timing is just pretty much right on with what I have been thinking.
LM~ There is no celebrating going on just because I'm taking care of her. There has been a lot of steps taken forward but also many have been back tracked and continue to be.

I have heard from what seems like a million people that I can't make demands and end the affair myself.

I have had the police pull this guy over in front of our home, and have him questioned at his house several times now. I called my lawyer and he tells me that I would not qualify for a PFA or PFS. He is suppose to be researching for my best option. I'm pissed that it is already Wednesday and I have nothing in place this week.
Today I will call someone else that seems interested in helping me. I call the police and they tell me to go to a lawyer for an RO.

I'm to the point of giving the wife a choice. End the affair by following my guidlines or continue your path with out me.
If she choices 1) Then I believe there should be a no contact letter inforced by police and legal action when he breaks it. I want her to email me any email OM sends her with out her reading it. I want her to tell him on the first call that he is to respect her choice to never have contact again and if he calls again the police will be notified. I also want this written down in the no contact letter. I want her to write down on a journal each time he calls and breaks the no contact letter request and for myself to be notified. Each occurance I will notify the police.
I also want her to agree to the PFS. If I can't get one then she must, and it is to include our family.

If this she chooses to NOT conform to this then, I believe I should file for a legal seperation. I feel we must break this cycle before she thinks it the norm and won't get better. I think I have to be the one to move things forward.

What is the worst that can happen here. LEXXY, KATIE MAY, DORRY, MEL, any FWW's please comment and suggestions please.

I told her Saturday that some type of restraining order will be drawn up this week and I want her behind it.

Comments please on this plan!

MM~ I think you had to do something similar. What are your suggestions.

My two cents worth -
the minute I read this statement, my first thought was "he is still too wishy washy". it is as if you are poised to threaten her with "LS", in order to finally knock her off the fence, but you are not prepared for a D. which is fine. if you are nto ready for a D, then you are not ready. Only you will know when you are ready. But what good does it do to file for LS? Doesn't that just put you back where you were a month ago?

IMO - and I admit I am no expert!! You need to reach a point where you are finally able to say
You need to give him up 100%, and commit to the M 100%, if you are not able to do that, then allow me to go on with my life now. Allow me to make a nice life for myself and DD. I will not hold you back, I will love you enough to let you go.
If she decides that she is never going to give up OM, then you need to finally tell your self that you have done all you can, and you can NO LONGER SAVE HER FROM HERSELF! At that point, it is time to finally quit with the filing for LS in the hopes that she will come to her senses at the 11th hour.

If she does decide to give up OM for once and for all, she needs to commit to that 100%. I sense that you are trying to find every possible loop hole she could find, and tell her to plug it up, and put it all in writing to him.



This is all good stuff, and good to plan ahead. But the reality is this - either she agrees to 100% no contact, and complete openess, or she doesn't. all the journal writing, all the email forwarding, all the rules you can put into place are great, but they can ALL be broken if she decides to. She just needs to decide for once and for all and move on.

You have done everything right.

Quote:
But the reality is this - either she agrees to 100% no contact, and complete openess, or she doesn't. all the journal writing, all the email forwarding, all the rules you can put into place are great, but they can ALL be broken if she decides to. She just needs to decide for once and for all and move on.

WOF is right. Dazed, I have a great deal of respect for you and I think you have done a great job. But it's up to your wife now to REALLY commit to the M.

After my Dday, I had sporatic contact with OM eventhough I sincerely promised H I wouldn't. I finally got caught and was absolutely devistated... I bawled in H's arms for hours. This happened the second time I was caught, too. While I truly believed with all of my heart that I wanted to save my marriage, I obviously still lacked decency and respect for my H... actually committing to NC in both thought and action required me to make that decision on my own. However, H did do a couple of things that helped me out.

He made me take responsibility for my behavior. He didn't buy any of my lame "fog talk" excuses. He got angry (rightfully so) but was respectful in his anger (eventhough I didn't deserve it). He was actually empathetic at times... almost detached himself emotionally from the situation... "Katie Mae, I understand how hard this must be for you. I actually feel sorry for you. But this is your mess and you need to fix it. I am here to support you, but only you are responsible for your choices and actions. I will not be disrespected any longer, and if you continue to talk to him, I hope you understand that it is over between us."

I knew he was serious and I did NOT want to lose him. My need for "closure" or wanting to "comfort" the OM didn't hold a candle to H.

Another example of H making me take responsibility:

OM and H work at the same company in different buildings (they do not know each other.) I use to work at the same company. With a user name and password, you can log into the company's corporate calendar from the internet. While I no longer had an account because I left that job, H obviously still has one. One day I was "missing" OM so badly that I guessed my husband's password and logged into the calendar so I could see what OM was up to. I felt so terrible about it afterwords that I told my H almost immediately.

H of course was very mad but again very respectful with his anger. I asked him to change his password so I wouldn't do it again. He told me he wouldn't... it was his password and had been for years. I needed to learn self-control and think about not only why I did that but how could I have done that, use his name and password... he left that responsibility up to me. At the time I was a big baby about it, but he was completely right. I have never been tempted to log into that calendar again, and my H is my hero.

Your W needs to know and feel the consequences of her actions, and take responsibility for herself. She needs to grow up. She needs to write a NC letter and fully recommit to the M, or you will be done with her. (((Dazed)))

Katie

I have a few minutes left before i have to go pick up the wife from her work. She will not drive the new car because of OM threats to damage it if he see's her in it. So she's driving the mustang and apparently the battery or starter is not working... lol

WOF~
You are right... I'm not ready to be divorced yet but realize this rut were stuck in is damaging to everyone. Why LS you ask. My thoughts were not to manipulate rather to present a consequence to her actions and choices.

To me filing for a LS sends the message that you are not giving up on the future, rather just not tolerating the present. Maybe my logic is flawed.. That is just how I see things.

I agree that i can't make or manipulate her to stay in the marriage. I don't want to trap her. I do want to learn how to make her responsible for her actions and choices.

I don't want to reward her for bad behavior or make a selfish demand that appears manipulative. What I'm needing is advice on the right way to communicate my boundries and feelings with out being angry and punishing. I also want to deliver this to her prior to another round of contact and being caught and having to react to something she has done wrong again.

Katie May~ I appreciate your help and thanks for the kind words. I believe it is true she has not respect for me. Maybe not ready to loose me but also feels okay with stepping on me. This is where I need help.

Your examples you gave me are good. I can relate to that. I know it is her choice to end contact. i just want her to know it is something that has to be done for our marriage to survive.

DC,

Frankly I agree with Lemonman, thus I have refrained from posting to you. However, if ever there is a WAKEUP call to YOU, this statement of your very OWN should be it.
OM is not only in her life and running it, he is in your live and running your AND he is a serious threat to your daughter. You have no idea how mad I am at you for allowing your daughter to be in the middle of this with a man as sick as OM. You really really don't.

While I admire your resoluteness in trying to work this out, you have lost my respect as a father. If you have lost my respect, guess how your W feels about it? You really need to heed the advice you have been given lately.

You really need to finally face that you may have lost your W, and maybe it is a good thing given this situation. OM wins if he gets her right? But, just maybe he does NOT win. In fact, you may be the winner if your W does NOT see the threat to your daughter, to you, and to her.

Dazed, I will retire from your post, but pay attention to what Lemonman is saying. This is NOT about plan A or plan B, this is about protecting your daughter and keeping OM away from your house. I am guessing that your daughter is now old enough to resemble your W somewhat and wonder when the OM will approach her either intentionally or unintentionally.

God Bless You Dazed,

JL

I don't understand your dilema? Your wife is disrespectful to you and is abusive yet you avoid any conflict and even seem afraid to enforce a boundary.

You have not gotten a RO to stop OM. I assume your afraid of your wife so you won't do it. Your wife does not stop seeing OM because there is no consequence for her. It does not make you a hero it makes you a doormat.

Look at what Lemmon Man has to say. What you are doing is not working and will not work. Women do not respect men that let them abuse them.

It should be a no brainer that you get a RO and she commits to you or let her go. You have to realize that she does not see any possiblility of losing you and you are prolonging her affair by not acting.

My wife had an affair and I am sure it would have gone on forever if I would have done nothing. It certainly would still be going on but it stopped right away. Do you know why? I did not want her anymore and told her I was moving on with my life without her.

She never dreamed that I would treat her like that. She treated me like crap for years and just assumed that even if caught she would have me no matter what.

Her affair ended right away and to this day she begs me for another chance that at this point in my life I do not want to give her. My point is when I was a doormat she treated me like one and now it is the exact opposite.

I just can't understand how you think it is an ultimatum or disrespectful to demand that your wife stop having an Affair with another man? Like I told you a long time ago even if you get her back what kind of woman would you be getting back? It is not the woman that you deserve.

Also dazed it is not "fog" or anything else it is "free will". She could choose to stop her abuse at any time but she does not. Stop doing what you've been doing unless you want more of the same.

All of us are pulling for you.

Katie Mae has given you some great insight!



This is spot on. In my opinion - if you sit down and say to her:
"You need to make a choice here. Either you agree to send a NC letter, forward every email to me unopened, and journal every attempt at contact, or I will file for LS" what message does that send?
To me – this is making demands. Either she follows all the rules, or suffers the consequence. But the consequence is what? LS?

I am not here to say to you “Plan B” or “file for D” or anything like that. This is your life, and only you are right up close and personal with your own situation.

What I will say is that, as a woman, I need to respect my H. I need to feel like he is a man who can be respected, who can fight for me and protect me. There is no way your W is feeling respectful towards you right now – and certainly she is not treating you with respect. This is a really bad habit for the two of you to get into!

I guess what I am suggesting to you is something like this:
My wife. I love you. I have such hope for our future together. I want to grow old with you, retire with you, and dream big dreams with you. But I simply can not do it as long as you are continue to be in a relationship with another man and flaunting it in front of my face. I cannot continue to act as if this is all ok with me. It is not. I am anxious to move forward in our M! I am anxious to start having fun with you, enjoying life together! But as long as you continue to remind me of my past failures, and continue to flaunt your R with OM in front of me, I find that we are simply stuck in a rut that I cannot be in any longer. For that reason, I would like you to decide, finally, for once and for all, if you are going to commit to 100% no contact with OM or not. It is your choice. I have made my choice, and you know what it is. But for my sake, and for the sake of our DD, you need to finally decide and get on with it. If you want to be M to me and explore all the possibilities that we can have together, then if you need to be 100% committed to giving up OW forever. If you cannot do that, if you cannot commit to NC, then I respectfully bow out of this R with you. I simply cannot bear to share you any longer. If you truly feel that he is the one for you, it will pain me deeply, but I will let you go.

You are not making demands; you are letting her make a choice. But Dazed, from that point forward you need to quit letting her disrespect you! When she wants to go on and on for hours about how bad you have been for years, and now you have changed, blah blah blah, you need to simply say “I have apologized for that, and will not allow you to beat me up about it any longer”

Dazed, something that occurs to me – they way she keeps bringing up the past and throwing it back at you – if you continue to allow that, aren’t you sending her a message that says “it is ok to bring up the past and beat the other person up with it. Therefore, I am going to do the same to you when my turn comes”. You need to send her the message that says, “the past is done. We have today and tomorrow. We can only go forward and do better from now on. The more you allow her to treat you this way – the more she has got to fear that she ahs a big can of whoop a$$ coming her way in return. Stop it now.

I feel 100% certain that she is just waiting to see when you are finally going to put a stop to her disrespectful behavior. But if you say “stop it, or I will file a LS!” her response would likely be: so?
Filing LS just gives her a few more months to waffle back and forth, play the two of you against each other. remind you of your past behavior, etc. It keeps her from finally stopping this madness. Filing LS would continue to drag your poor DD through the ringer.
When your DD grows up, and gets married, would you ever want a man to treat her way your wife is treating you right now? Would you want her to put up with this day after day? Or would you rather teach her that she is worthy of love, and respect, and should never allow anyone to treat her like this?

What lessons do you think she is learning right now?

Finally, I want to say that as a woman, I am physically attracted to my H when I feel like I can respect him! I suspect that a big reason your WW is not attracted to you right now is because she sees you as weak and needy. You will let her say or do anything she wants no matter how cruel or hurtful. She sees you as a weak child. That is NOT physically attractive. You do not need to yell or scream or make demands. But you do need to say, calmly, I will not allow you to talk to me that way or treat me that way any longer. If you cannot speak nicely to me, then our conversation is done. If you cannot quit talking to OM, then you need to move out of my house. Because in this house, marriage is between one man and one woman. I am going to stand up for myself, and my marriage, and declare that I WILL be in a R with a woman who treats me with respect. I hope that woman is you.

She doesn't yet appreciate the changes in you. She still resents them.

I suspect she is full of anger. And most of her anger is directed at you. However, even though it is not visible she has anger towards herself, and OM too.

First and foremost; OM is scum. WW knows he is scum. She feels like she deserves scum. She feels so badly about how she has fallen from who she "used to be" that scum is what she belongs with. Because OM is so scummy, he actually makes her feel better about herself. She knows she is "better" than him.

You? You're not scummy. When she is with you, she feels WORSE about herself. With you, she has to face the problems and mistakes she has made. With you, she knows you are the better person than her. That feels very unjust to her. She resents it. She resents your changes, because she can't justify her bad behavior anymore. The nicer you are, the more it pisses her off.

And the nicer you are about it all, the weaker you seem to her. She WILL lose respect for you if you let this continue.

I don't think you should give her a list of conditions. I don't think you should give her your boundries.

I think you should simply tell her you have reached your limit of putting up with her affair. That since she is not capable of ending her affair that you have made the decision to remove yourself from the triangle. That you release her to move on with her life so that you can move on with yours.
Tell her to make plans to move out by June 1st.

Do not participate any further in trying to convince her to stay in the marriage or work on the marriage. DETACH.

Do not participate in her bashing of you. No more apologizing for past neglect. If she starts, simply say "I have forgiven you for what you have done, you should try to forgive me too." AND WALK AWAY.

She's just not repentant yet. And its my personal opinion that you can't truly recover with a WW who isn't sorry.
You can be the perfect man, and unless she REGRETS what she has done, you can't fix anything.

You're done. The rest is up to her. She needs to crash and burn. She needs to go through this. You can't keep putting band-aids on it. You keep fixing everything enough so she never gets to the extreme pain. And its the extreme pain thats going to bring her back. She won't be sorry until she gets to that point.



Dazed -- one other thing...when she is truly repentant you'll know it. Because you won't have to ask her for anything -- she will offer it to you. In fact, she will beg you to accept it.

Until then, she is still calling all the shots. With you two men chasing her. I say stop racing after her. Let her go. It will blow her mind.

Dazed,

I don't think you WW has to make any decisions. She already has made her decision, she enjoys wonderful SF with Jabba the Hut and the thought of SF with you grosses her out but she does enjoy beating up on you, abusing you and taunting you with her preference for Jabba the Hut's wonderful attention. His reminders of how pathetic you are and how you had 14 years to be nice to her.

You just have to decide how much the thought of your WW begging Jabba the Hut for wonderful SF appeals to you. How much do threats to damage your property and family including your DD affect you. How long do you want to go on without SF from your possibly STD infected WW. How long do you want to be tormented by reminders of your past failings by your WW who is smacking you in the face daily with her adulterous behaviour.

Dazed you really need to grow some testes and stand up for yourself and your DD and marriage. Your WW can take care of herself and if Jabba the Hutt makes her happy, so what. If she divorces you. You wont die but you may find happiness without Jabba the Hutt in your life and WW.

I don't respect you and neither does your wife, you are doing nothing to save your marriage except everything your WW wants.

Expose the Affair to everyone again, spread news of Your WW's choices to all of her refound friends. Let everyone know how she is fooling them and cuckolding you with Jabba the Hutt. Get some form of protection in place for your family against Jabba the Hutt before he does anymore damage to your marriage and family. Become a man again, take back what your WW cut off.

Your WW is only looking after herself and getting payback big time on you. She has become comfortable with herself.

Ahhhh... AussieM....you need to read this board a LITTLE MORE "Put another shrimp on the BARBIE.." boy...before you begin trashing Dazed or anyone else here....



Nice...YOU ARE A....... OH WAIT....I just realized something... You must have "Testes" HUH? You must wrestle alligators HUH??.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> is that what causes your ignorance? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />




<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> WHO......CARES..... really... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

If you even had ONE more post.... ah forget it..... Read MORE before you speak LESS.....

.

Dazed,

JL brought up a good point. I wanted to mention your W's car in my last post but it slipped my mind as I started typing. This may be a good starting point in enforcing your boundaries.

Tell your W that you are absolutely done with the OM and she needs to take responsibility for the mess she got herself in. Starting next week, you will no longer drive her to work and she will go to her job in her own car. It's her car, she should be able to drive it. If he threatens or does something, that's her mess to deal with. Tell her you're sorry it sucks but that's the way it's going to be. You're finished. Meanwhile, continue working on getting the RO and taking care of yourself and your DD. Lexxxy is right... when your W is truly repentant she will come to you... she will want you with her when she closes email accounts, changes phone numbers, etc. You won't have to do or say ANYTHING.

You are getting some wonderful advice here, Dazed... please continue to let us know how you are doing.

Dazed:

OK, my friend...a final post (again) before I let you go back to the "supporters" of your Plan and discontinue further posts to your thread.

You have alot of people here trying to help you.....NOT A ONE is advising divorce.....so please DO NOT misinterpret the advice to get a backbone and take back your self dignity and self respect with "kicking your wife to the curb". Your wife in essence has made her decision...she screams it to you in different ways every day....IT IS JUST THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT.

SO, you can continue to do what you have been doing...and continue to get what you have been getting (continued cake eating, verbal abuse, and NO MOVE towards REAL marital recovery----FOR THE RECORD, THE FACT THAT YOUR WIFE IS IN THE HOUSE AND THE LS HAS BEEN STOPPED IS ALL A BIG LIE....A RED HERRING...IT IS WINDOW DRESSING....There is NO SUBSTANCE to it. All it did was allow her more time to crucify you for the past and buy her waffle time to continue the affair. DO NOT mix that up with a wife who is repentant and WANTS to end her affair and work towards recovery. I think you have been done a great disservice by some well intentioned people encouraging you to believe that is going on...when in fact none of that is going on. Your wife in the house and the LS being stopped is akin to the classic Tom Hanks movie called the Money Pit....that says it all. Watch the movie...not a thing needs to be additonally said.

Now, you can listen to these good people and get a backbone and enforce boundaries (none of which needs to be in a antagonistic way) and demand respect from YOURSELF (your wife will eventually follow) or you can continue to use the same approach you have been doing. You'll perhaps stave of divorce...so if that is your ultimate goal...then by all means continue on. Like I told our good friend Hopethisworks: The human mind and body is capable of absorbing severe abuse and pain and adjusting to this and tolerating it. THAT IS NOT ALWAYS A GOOD THING.

It is your move.

If you are satisifed with your results and life, then by all means IGNORE my post and continue on. You'll get what you want doing that. I have never been surer of anything else here.

Cheers

Sourmale, MD

Do you mean like Steve Harley?



I never said that his W respected him… she doesn’t……..NOW….BUT SHE WILL…. Why do I think this… because EVERY SINGLE WS I’VE EVER TALKED TO HAS SAID THE VERY SAME THING…. Their BS became their “Hero” because then STOOD UP AND BELIEVED IN THE MARRIAGE FOR BETTER AND FOR WORSE….. (and we ALL know… this is as WORSE as it gets!@!)
And as for “Strength”……. I think the route Dazed has chosen takes SOOOO much more strength than QUITTING on his W and his marriage…..That is what people do that don’t have a site like this to LEARN from. They yell and threaten and wine and demand….. And DIVORCE…..THAT….IS EASY…….

And… Just for the record... I have told Dazed NUMEROUS times to get a RO.. or a stalking order etc.....
I think he should have done it a LONG time ago...

But I have a question for you Lemonman (and others) that feel Dazed should "Do something different" "Set his boundaries" etc.....
because IF there truly is a better way for Dazed that will end this madness.... then sign me up too... I want to jump on that bandwagon....

"Do something different" "Set his boundaries"


What can he do to do these things
THAT ARE IN LINE WITH MARRIAGE BUILDERS PRINCIPALS......

Not... Love must be tough... not Divorce Busters... Not Dr. Phil or ANY OTHER METHOD......

THAT ARE IN LINE WITH MARRIAGE BUILDERS PRINCIPALS......

There are only two plans HERE as far as I can see....

PLAN 'A'...... or PLAN 'B'......

What other ideas do YOU have for DAZED that

ARE IN LINE WITH MARRIAGE BUILDERS PRINCIPALS......BECAUSE THIS IS WHERE WE ARE AND THE PRINCIPALS DAZED HAS CHOSEN

And BTW everyone comes here and tells dazed there is NO PROGRESS AT ALL....
I spent a LONG LONG time a couple of pages back listing the OBVIOUS progress.. AND MADE A CHALLENGE....
That of course no one would take...

How about you lemonman.... can you argue with the FACTS??
I'll re-post them below to save you the trouble....