***With those 3 points in hand, what difference will it make to say to WH that I won't be part of a threesome? He's already removed that option.

What do you mean, HE has "removed that option?"***

What I meant was: his decision to move out removes me from the threesome. I guess I'm assuming that our relationship (physically) will be no more at that point. I find it hard to believe that he would come over for an overnighter. His OW would definately have something to say about that. Hence, I will not be part of a threesome anymore because his moving removed me from it. Make sense?

***Conflicting advice here.
Mulan: have sex
WAT: withhold***

No, no! I am the LAST person who would ever encourage you to have sex with a WS. I was just pointing out that as long as you do this, you are (a) being part of a threesome and therefore giving WH exactly what he wants, and (b) exposing yourself to possibly life-threatening disease.

Now, you may read about other posters who did continue to have sex with a WS, but my advice is DON'T!!! I think it is far too risky both emotionally and physically.

***Also, any comments about my thoughts on my plan to cease the counseling sessions (above post)?***

I think your WS will probably be quite happy to go back, since he heard everything he wanted to hear and this counselor turned out to be a Divorce Counselor instead of a Marriage Counselor.

As WAT said, if you can get this psychiatrist to concentrate on why your WH wants to cheat in the first place, maybe it will be helpful. Just don't expect it to help your marriage -- it won't, as long as the OW is still in the picture.

Have you thought of calling the Harleys for an appointment, either instead of or in additon to seeing the psychiatrist?
Mulan

***What I meant was: his decision to move out removes me from the threesome.***

No, it doesn't! Not as long as he knows he can rely on you for any of his emotional needs, whether that means sex or conversation or domestic support (cooking dinner, washing his clothes) or anything else on the EN (Emotional Needs) list.

The only one who can remove you from the threesome is YOU. It doesn't matter if WH lives in your house or lives on the moon. If he's still seeing OW *and* knows he can rely on you whenever he feels like it, you ARE still part of a threesome.

***I guess I'm assuming that our relationship (physically) will be no more at that point.***

Again - why in the world would you let a cheating man make this decision for you??? Why would he get any say in this matter at all? Why is this HIS decison and not YOURS?

***I find it hard to believe that he would come over for an overnighter. His OW would definately have something to say about that.***

What if she does? As you said, he will just lie to her, too, just as he lied to you. You had something to say about his sleeping with her but it didn't stop him, did it?

However - anything you can do to let her THINK he is still sleeping with you is a good thing, because even though she can't stop him she sure won't like it and they'll start to fight (if they're not already.)

You can be sure he's told her that you are a cold fish, that you stopped having sex with him ages ago, blah, blah, blah. Send a few pertinent emails and voice mails that make it clear that was not the case. You can bet your booty that's she doesn't trust him either and will almost certainly check up on him.

Heh.
Mulan

***You can be sure he's told her that you are a cold fish, that you stopped having sex with him ages ago, blah, blah, blah. Send a few pertinent emails and voice mails that make it clear that was not the case. You can bet your booty that's she doesn't trust him either and will almost certainly check up on him.***

Not possible that she'll find out anything. While he's not entirely deceptive (I found the clues), he is a computer geek by profession, so she will never see his email. I send email to his work address anyway.

However, if history dictates itself, when he had his first affair and moved out, it was short-lived. He lied, said he got an apartment (correction: apartment was rented but he didn't go there), he moved in with OW #1. Within 3 short days, it was over. Why? He was late arriving "home" to OW #1s home, and as a cheater knows the actions of a cheater, she suspected that he was at our house (in fact, he was still working). She had a friend call me to check, I told WS, and all chit hit the fan (the snooping). His clothes were in her front yard, car keys buried in the cat liter box, etc...

You're right: if OW #2 really knew that he was lying about ME, she would run. I think it will eventually come out, whether jeaslousy is the root cause or not, I don't suspect this relationship has a chance.

Sorry I misinterpreted the sex issue (been misinterpreting a lot lately). I thought you said that it was okay as long as it was protected, and make sure to leave the evidence (emails) out there "in case someone was looking over his shoulder".

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the long, thought-out advice that has been put here. I'm sucking in as much as possible in this learning process. I have thought about making an MB appointment, but I thought your earlier advice was to familiarize myself with the SAA first. I might go directly to the MB counselor, if anything, to help ME for once. Reading back on all of this, it's evident that I haven't been thinking of ME, basically because WH has been in the driver's seat up to this point.

It will be difficult -- pushing WH back. And by that I mean refusing him sexually, and telling him that I am removing myself from the threesome. There is no doubt this will send him running harder and faster into the OWs arms. But providing him with sex is only making him King of the Cake Eaters.

***Sure, as long as you are in Plan A (and not Plan B), feel free to send a few short and sweet emails or IMs or voice mails.***

What if WH does not reciprocate the email? I can't think the last time he's responded to an email. I don't know if he is trying to distance himself from me, but my emails are short and sweet: "thinking of you and hoping you have a great day", and they go unaswered. I don't want to look like a fool (as I probably already appear).

I don't know if he doesn't want to say "I love you" (like he always does in email). Just way confusing...

Isn't this, in many ways, reinforcing his behavior? Or is it the love/support + boundaries that set the record? Meaning, I am there for him, ready to rebuild the marriage but there are certain conditions that must be met?

Dont'get me wrong, my personality has always been an upbeat one (remember my comment that I'm not a pouty-Patty). I don't scream, or yell. I am, first and foremost, a Christian. A peace-maker. I don't take jabs, cuts, or punches at the sake of others. So all along, I've been enacting Plan A before I ever heard of a Plan A. Showing him acts of kindness, love, support...has been me all along, except he was getting the entire package (including sex) with no boundaries.

Guess this answers my question why he is still here...enjoying it while he can. But our sex has taken a turn. Point blank, it's missing the passon. He refuses to kiss me (deeply). That, to me, is the most intimate gesture and he is either purposefully or unknowingly withholding that part of him from me.

*********UPDATE*********


WS packed up and left last night. I'm feeling incredible pain right now. It was so difficult to watch him pack his things, but more painful was what he said to me. Again, everyone has been so supportive here, so if you are finding yourself repeating what you have said to me, I apologize. I'm not thinking clearly, and believe me when I say that each time I see a new posting from someone, it helps. It really does....

He began by setting the process. Meaning, he told me that he would be packing a few things for the weekend, he would return on Sunday to help with our joint business, and then return on Monday for the remainder of his things and then "we'll talk". I wasn't going to stand for him to yank me around and suspend me for that period of time. Talk about unfair!! I told him we need to talk now -- that if there was something that he needed to say, say it now (mind you, I said it without LBs, but firmly).

It almost seemed like a repeat of our counseling session. He repeatidly knit-picked on trivial past events. The "cap left off the toothpaste" scenerio. It was all "you, you, you". No ownership on his part. He did say that he loves me and "always will" (something he said many times last night). But he was on the verge of anger as I denied his claims that it was all "me" (I couldn't resist defending myself). He said he has felt he has had nothing but a "roommate". So much untruth to this! I've been loving, supportive, and while I'm not a perfect person you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that, two months prior to me discovering the affair we were loving, kind, affectionate. Where did all that go?? The barbs continued: it was ME that failed to get a baby sitter so that we could have "us" time. It was MY fault that our 3 year old son was still in our bedroom in his crib. I could go on...but it was all finger pointing, as everyone here said would happen. This was extremely painful!! I then tried to defend our marriage, telling him I've been nothing but supportive and caring, doing everything I could to help him have a better life (WS came into marriage with a host of credit issues). He actually got angry saying "why are you throwing that up in my face??? Didn't you have a lot of debt, too, when we married???". It was, like WAT said, talking to someone that was abducted by aliens. What spewed from his mouth made no sense, was hurtful, and contridictory to everything he has ever said to me in the past (he has always thanked me for helping him with his credit issues).

At one point, I realized that the conversation was fruitless. I could argue until the cows came home, but he wasn't going to admit fault. It hurts more and more I hear this. I don't know the man anymore.

In the counseling session he admitted that the affair was still going on, so I stepped up to the plate and asked "are you moving in together?". I knew the answer, but needed to hear it from him. He said "yes", and my thoughts of him, going to her, holding her, starting over again as a free spirit while I stay behind with the responsibilities of the children, household, our joint business...the pain grew to an unbearable level. I've never felt so alone and abandoned. And everything I've ever worked for in our 6 year marriage was disolving in front of me and there was nothing I could do about it.

After the pointing fingers stopped (there were tears on both sides), he just kept saying "I've been trying to tell you how unhappy I've been, you just don't listen". I'm not a mind reader, and there was no way I could know this. Especially since I would continually ask him "are you happy?", only to hear "yes, I'm very happy". But at one point, he stepped up and said "I know I didn't tell you I was unhappy, and that's my fault. I just put on a happy face and did what I needed to do. But I can't, anymore".

We talked a little about the counseling, and he admitted he felt that "Dr. Divorce" was of no help so we mutually agreed that we would not go back to see him. This was surprising, since the Dr. solely backed WS and I thought this would make WS feel like he has a back-up to his actions and would want to continue to go.

I then told him I was in contact with the insurance company to go to a marriage counselor -- someone that is concerned about putting a marriage back together instead of saying "go your separate ways". He was very receptive to that. Again, keep in mind that he said in the counseling session that our marriage was not fixible. So I point-blank asked him "I appreciate you wanting to go to the sessions, but please don't do it for my sake. Don't pity me". He said that he wanted to go, that he wants to see if there is a chance for repair. This provided a glimmer of hope that he is at least opening the door to a chance. Whether he is doing it only to help me get through this process or not, I guess I'll eventually find out. But out of my insecurities and wanting guarantees, I asked him twice if he thought there was "hope" for us. He said he doesn't want to get my hopes up, but "I have not thrown in the towel. I always have had hope"...we'll see...

But does this look like a good sign? I know that everyone says that with the OW in the picture, counseling is fruitless. But, with Plan A, the more I'm involved with him will hopefully drive a wedge between him and OW.

At one point we started talking about the OW. I told her "she can't be receptive to us having counseling". He told me that she knew and has stated that if my WS and I go to counseling and we make it work, she will back out. I'm not totally buying this story -- but he's not capable of telling the truth right now.

I know I need to implement Plan A, and I did step up to the plate last night and told him that I can't be a part of a threesome. I don't know if he really heard me, as much was said last night that was a blur.

I asked what he was going to tell our 5 y.o. daughter. He cried on that one. I almost stepped up to help, but held back (thankfully). He needs to step up to the plate and handle that one. He needs to experience the pain as he tells his daughter what he is doing, but we agreed that it wouldn't be last night. She thinks he went on a business trip.

He hugged me tight, kissed me (peck on the lips) and as I cried he said softly in my ear "I'm sorry". I asked "for what?" (only wanting to hear an answer)...he said "I never wanted to hurt you".

Backing up a little, I forgot to mention that he stated that he will ALWAYS be there for me, to help with the business (if I wanted him), be there for the children, and will even be getting a 2nd job to support us. I realize this is all fluff, and his committment is yet to be seen. Is a fence-sitter/cake-eater better than total abandonment? I'm not saying it's the right thing, but it least shows that he still wants to be part of my life?

I didn't sleep at all last night, cried until dawn, and as I sit here feeling abandoned, hurt, and alone, I feel like I have experienced a death. I have lost my best friend.

I know I will survive, but it all seems unfair. He's in the warmth of another's arms, and felt needed last night. But what did I have? An empty side of our bed, a pillow without my husband.

I feel so lost...

SAA will explain all this clearly for you, I hope.

WAT

xHale, I am so sorry this is happening to you. Please do what you need to do to get support for yourself from family and friends. This site can help, but you need real-life support, too.

The first thing you should do is pick up the phone and tell absolutely EVERYONE that WH has now moved out to live with OW. Give them full names and addresses. And tell EVERYONE -- your family, his family, your friends, his friends, and most certainly his workplace.

This is called "Exposure". You need to do this for two reasons:

1) So that these people will know the truth before WH can spin it, and so that WH and OW can no longer hide their nasty affair behind closed doors. According to everyone here at MB who has done it, Exposure is the #1 best weapon any BS has for busting up an affair. It's just like shining a light on cockroaches. They HATE it and will scatter quickly!

2) So these people can give YOU the support you will need.

DO THIS ALL AT ONCE! MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS NOTIFIED TODAY!!!

***It almost seemed like a repeat of our counseling session. He repeatidly knit-picked on trivial past events. The "cap left off the toothpaste" scenerio. It was all "you, you, you". No ownership on his part.***

Of course not. He has to blame all of this on you, or else he is just a selfish [censored] who is destroying his family. And that couldn't possibly be true, now could it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

***...the pain grew to an unbearable level. I've never felt so alone and abandoned.***

Did you tell him this? You should, you know. Re-read "The Carrot and the Stick".

***So I point-blank asked him "I appreciate you wanting to go to the sessions, but please don't do it for my sake. Don't pity me". He said that he wanted to go, that he wants to see if there is a chance for repair. This provided a glimmer of hope that he is at least opening the door to a chance.***

Which is exactly what he wanted -- to keep you stringing along.

If you learn nothing else, learn this: His goal is not to try to "choose" between you and his girlfriend. His goal is to keep BOTH OF YOU. He will do or say ANYTHING to string both of you along and keep BOTH OF YOU.

***Whether he is doing it only to help me get through this process or not, I guess I'll eventually find out.***

Make no mistake -- he is not doing any of this to "help" you. Please don't fall into that trap of accepting his little crumbs and feeling grateful for them. He is just doing whatever he thinks will string you along so he can have two women. Never forget this!

***But out of my insecurities and wanting guarantees, I asked him twice if he thought there was "hope" for us. He said he doesn't want to get my hopes up, but "I have not thrown in the towel. I always have had hope"...we'll see...***

Like I said -- string, string, string.

***But, with Plan A, the more I'm involved with him will hopefully drive a wedge between him and OW.***

Be very, very careful with this. Your WH will love more than anything the idea of having two women fight over him -- and you are playing right into his hands.

***At one point we started talking about the OW. I told her "she can't be receptive to us having counseling". He told me that she knew and has stated that if my WS and I go to counseling and we make it work, she will back out.***

Translation: "I will tell xHale anything she wants to hear so I can keep stringing her along, no matter how ridiculous a lie it really is."

***I asked what he was going to tell our 5 y.o. daughter. He cried on that one. I almost stepped up to help, but held back (thankfully). He needs to step up to the plate and handle that one. He needs to experience the pain as he tells his daughter what he is doing, but we agreed that it wouldn't be last night. She thinks he went on a business trip.***

Do not lie to this child. She does not need to know the gory details at age 5, but do not lie to her either. And let the pain of this fall fully on WH's head. Do not protect him from the damage he is doing to his children. You are absolutely right about this!

In short:
1) Expose TODAY to EVERYONE. DO THIS ALL AT ONCE.

2) Never forget that he wants both you and the OW. That is his goal.

3) Never forget that your pain means nothing to him and he will care nothing about hurting you. Do not fall into the trap of thinking he is trying to "help" or "protect" you. If he wanted to do those things, his butt would be at home with his family.

4) Keep posting. We will try to help as best we can. Remember that this forum slows down on weekends and holidays, so don't panic if the replies are slower in coming.

Hang in there. You can do this.
Mulan

ditto Mulan

Everything you describe is textbook WS script reading.

This means he's a "normal" WS and everything you can absorb from this site - and about infidelity in general - is applicable to you.

Please consider individual counseling with one of the MB counselors.

Consider also seeing a doc about crisis induced depression - very common among BSs. You can't do a good Plan A if you're not healthy.

Hang in there. Come here to vent. We know it's difficult and it seems like the end of the world. Many of us have been there.

Reach down and find the strength to be there for your child.

WAT

We have an appointment with a marriage counselor next Friday. She has already stated that she is sure this will lead to individual counseling. WH has more issues than you can shake a stick at: multi-affairs / depression.
Must cure the disease to get rid of the symptoms (affairs).


WAT...again...thank YOU for sharing your insight and guiding me. You've been so patient with me...even if it appears that my head is made of rock. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I have close family that is in contact with me several times a day, I have my Pastor, and the marriage counselor gave me her cell phone # to use in case I have a relapse (I had one this morning where I just didn't think I'd survive).

I don't think I'm dealing with depression, but I am grieving. Grieving over the loss of my marriage, my best friend, my future. Although, this may be the beginning of a new chapter for us and the grieving may have been for naught, but in the light of day, WH is in the comfort of OWs arms, and I am left standing in an empty house without my husband. Our children are an absolute blessing, but it's hard for me to trade off my emotions right now and revert my attention to them. It will come, but not today. And each day I will get stronger...of that, I know.

WH may lie, but I do know he loves me. He doesn't RESPECT me, but he loves me. He's got an illness and before any repair can be initiated, he needs to be healed.

Unfortunately, this is not possible only because my WH is from out of state and he's not close to any of his family (other issues). I don't know his co-workers. I guess you could also say that WH would take that as retaliation and I really can't see what ground that will provide -- it certainly won't promote embarrassment because he has no one to be embarrassed to. My family already knows, but they are a Christian bunch that have kind hearts and are not casting stones at WH. They are in prayer. I also have to keep our 5 and 3 y.o.'s in mind, and I don't want us to be bitter towards each other for their sake. I see your point, but it just doesn't seem to apply to us.

It was amazing how you called this one. I couldn't believe the barbs that spewed from his mouth. He even said that he didn't feel like he had a wife anymore, but a roommate! So untrue and too boring to list all the examples to show that we are much more than roommates -- and he's often said we were soul mates, for that matter.

Oh boy...did I. I hope he heard me through my sobbing. No, really, I was crying (he was too) and I told him how much this was tearing my heart in two, how much pain this was causing me, how I felt like I was losing my best friend...the whole nine yards (and it was truly spoken from my heart). It may have been why he slightly softened and admitted 2 things: 1) seeking these affairs have, and will, never make him happy and 2) he never came right out and told me that he wasn't happy.

I don't plan to grant him a cat fight. I don't even know how to get in contact with her to "expose" him, but I will be showing him my love, and as WAT once stated: "turn on my woman-charms. Make him fall in love with you all over again". I will be showing him a more confident person, someone that isn't sitting at home falling apart. My thoughts are: no one wants to be around a pouty-Patty. But, this could backfire on me as he sees that I'm doing fine and eases his conscience and moves on. It's a delicate balance of making him feel like he is needed, yet not pushing him away either. It is his need to be needed that he is with OW in the first place! She left her husband and is going through a terrible separation. They are both feeders, sucking the energy out of each other.

This is his responsibilty. I refuse to give bad news to our daughter -- news that he is responsible for. Let HIM feel the pain as he tries to explain his actions.

***I guess you could also say that WH would take that as retaliation and I really can't see what ground that will provide . . . I also have to keep our 5 and 3 y.o.'s in mind, and I don't want us to be bitter towards each other for their sake. I see your point, but it just doesn't seem to apply to us.***

xHale, you could not be more wrong about Exposure. Please read more on this site regarding it. If you keep their dirty little secret and keep on appeasing him so that he won't be "mad" at you, then you are the best friend they've got regarding their affair.

***I will be showing him a more confident person, someone that isn't sitting at home falling apart. My thoughts are: no one wants to be around a pouty-Patty. But, this could backfire on me as he sees that I'm doing fine and eases his conscience and moves on.***

Again: You've got it backwards here. Nothing gets a WS's attention like seeing the BS move on without them. It's the last thing they expect.

Please read as much as you can about

1) Exposure
2) Plan B (also known as "showing WS you can live just fine without them and will not be part of a threesome".)

These have been discussed endlessly here and are the greatest weapons you have. Please do not reject them out of hand - they DO apply to you and are exactly what you need.

Please read up on both of these things.
Mulan

****Now I'm in the angry stage.

I sat here in my house all day long feeling sorry for myself. I just didn't feel like going anywhere and dealing with my 5 and 3 y.o. by myself. Last night, before WH left he said "I'll call you tomorrow". Here it is, 9pm, and no call. This solidly confirms that he couldn'g give a chit about me. I know I have to be hit over the head for this to sink in, but if he cared about me, he would have called. (I know...I know...everyone is going to tell me to snap out of it).

All day long I struggled with the fact that he was in his lover's arms and having a grand day while I sit in our home wondering what went wrong. He's got no reposibilities, no cares, and is leading a fun, new life with OW.

This was confirmed when I just now checked the on-line banking and our checking account shows that he spent $100 at Ikea (probably buying furniture for his new rental with OW) and another $100 withdrawn out of the ATM machine. It's been less than 24 hours and it is already starting. I'm resenting him with a capital R.

I know we've been around and around with this, but I think I have finally resolved that I will be an emotional basket case if I allow him to walk in and out of my life as he pleases (as he has stated he will always be coming over). Is it time for Plan B? Since he is moved in with OW, and he has no indication that he's willing to end the affair, shouldn't I just move on to Plan B to sepearate my feelings from him so that I don't loose any further love?

Or, do I have to stick to Plan A in order to win him back?

I'm just an emotional wreck right now, and I can't stop crying and feeling sorry for myself.

xHale - your emotions and reaction are justified - and normal.

His actions are "normal" for a fogged up WS.


More accurately, this solidly confirms that that his brain is flooded with dopomine (aka abducted by aliens) and cannot think past the end of his nose.

I understand your desire to go to Plan B, but let's not mimic his state of mind, i.e., make rash decisions that haven't passed the test of logic.

You may have been doing a passable Plan A - like me and many others did before we found MB. You need to assess if you've accomplished the intent. When you get your copy of SAA and/or have a session with one of the MB counselors, this determination can be made.

THEN - if Plan A has been accomplished sufficiently, and since he's already out of the house (can't Plan B under the same roof IMHO) there's only one other task before Plan B can be considered - legal arrangements. (All of this is my way of looking at Plan B and you should get the inputs of others.)

Step one - get an attorney. Nothing I recommend here should be done without corroborating legal advice.

Is legal separation available in your state/province/local government jurisdiction?

What have you two agreed on as far as finances?

One thing you should do right now is gather up all your financial records to show what you two owned as of the day he left. If you have no agreement with him and you don't trust him NOT to drain your liquid accounts - you should consider withdrawing half of all liquid asssets that were present the day he left. An attorney might recommend more based on the presence of your children and depending on your local laws.

I bet stuff like this is the last thing you want to deal with right now, but you have a chance to think clearly and get advice unencumbered by emotion - something he likely doesn't have.

Remember - slow down.

Believe me when I say time is on your side.

When he calls you try your best not to rant and rave. No love busters. This is extremely difficult but extremely important. Plan B is best entered upon leaving a pristine Plan A.

WAT

Believe me when I say time is on your side.[/quote]
Once again, WAT, you have grounded me. I know you know that I am trying my best to control my emotions, and I slip up so frequently in this horrible roller coaster ride that I am on. I need to take a deep breath and remember what my ultimate goal is -- to save our marriage. Getting angry and throwing out a bunch of LBs is not productive. I just can't wait for my copy of SAA to arrive. It's taking too long, IMHO.

Today is not a call day, but a visit day. We have a business together (more mine than his) that we work together on, and without the boring details, we need to complete business transactions on Sundays. He has promised to come over on Sunday to help, and I believe he will. Honestly, I don't want him here. It's going to pain me to see him, but as WAT suggested, I'm still in Plan A and I have to use my charms to win him back and fall in love with me again. So I will be aloof, and charming, and I will try to look my best and show him that my spirit is up (again, no pouty-Patty attitude).

I want to ask him why he didn't call me and let him know that it hurt, but my head tells me NO. He didn't call me, and there's nothing that can change that history. I guess I would be searching for an apology.

As far as financial/legal issues, I haven't even gone that route. I know I'm living with my head in the sand believing everything he said in which he has promised to take care of us. But I know, if it is a choice between putting heating oil in the tank and him taking off for a weekend at the beach, the money is going in his pocket. He'll tell me to take the money out of the business. He did, however, tell me that he is going to get a 2nd job. Again, this is his fantasy and I'm sure he THINKS he has it all planned out, but he hasn't even put pen to paper.

I don't know about filing for legal separation. It seems so drastic for someone still in Plan A. He's still in the mode of "I only want the clothes on my back". I equate this to the guilty phase and not wanting to take any material possessions from our home.

I think I just need to relax, take a deep breath, and know that I need to be in control of ME while the aliens have fun with WS. But please tell me that it's not all fun and games with WS. Please tell me that he is tormented and that he's not having the time of his life. It's this that is tearing me in two. Thinking that he was walking hand-in-hand with OW through Ikea, planning how to furnish their new rental together...the things that we used to do, now I'm replaced.

And speaking about "the light of day" exposure, something happened last night that very odd while I was logged on to the computer and an IM appeared and got very weird, from someone I don't know but is connected to my WHs affair. I will post this shortly...

xHale - you sound strong and NOT crazy! Good job.


I recommend you compartmentalize these two topics. They are not related.

In fact, going through the process of securing a legal separation can be a terrific Plan A opportunity for interaction. It's also a "warm up" to Plan B for the WS - he gets to feel some of the consequences of his decisions.

Filing for legal separation is not in itself a drastic action. It's a smart, legal REACTION to HIS drastic action - abandoning the home. See the difference?

Very likely he has not even thought of such an intuitive outcome of his decision to leave. Monday morning, call an attorney and arrange for a consultation. Don't volunteer this to your H. When you have to fork over some $$ for an attorney, THEN inform your H of the necessary expense. When he reacts in surprise, "I thought you wanted to work on the marriage!!" You respond, "Working on the marriage is my first desire. I have to take these legal steps to protect me and the children until you come home and are willing to work on the marriage."

WAT

WAT, I'm sorry...you do have this wrong. You give such sound advice, but as you will admit, no one knows a WS like the BS. I know him. I know exactly how he will react to this action. He will not grovel and say "I thought you wanted the marriage?". No...he will say: "Fine, you want to go that route, it's on now". He'll take it as a threat. He'll react with resentment (although he has no just reason to act that way, or any way for that matter!) I just know it! I'm still in the infancy stages of Plan A: loving & supportive and no LBs. This would be a LB, even if I said it in gentle words. His LBs are so skewed because of his insecurities.

You are so right. You are better at predicting his reactions and you are probably spot on in this scenario.

The reaction you predict is actually in line with what I was predicting - it's maybe the next sentence.

Defiance will be his defense when faced with the natural outcomes of his decisions.

Don't let that dictate your actions. All this will come in spades in Plan B.

WAT

******I was contacted by someone on the OW team last night***

Very strange...

I was sitting at my computer last night when a pop-up appeared that said an (unknown) email address had added me to their contact list. It then prompts me to either allow this person to see if I’m on line or not. I allowed it, but immediately IMd the person (instant messaged). This is some of the dialogue (not actual words, but close):

Them: Do I know you?
Me: I don’t know…you added me to your contact list
Them: Sorry, I have the wrong person
Me: Okay. No problem

But they go on…not dropping it

Them: I was looking for “Jane Doe” (I’ve obviously changed the name for this posting, but this person used my first name and a different last name)
Me: Not me
Them: Okay, sorry

And they still go on…

Them: I heard they moved back to Maryland
Me: Still not me
Them: Where in Maryland are you located?
Me: (I give them my city)
Them: (the person they are looking for)…also lived in this city
Me: Okay
Them: They lived on XX Road (they provide the name of a road that is a cross-road to mine).

Now I’m getting suspicious. This person won’t drop the IM, and keeps feeding me tidbits. And then I get an epiphany: When you IM someone, you have a name that appears. Her name happened to be “Twyla”, which made a lightbulb go off in my head: 1) Twyla is a very rare name, and I knew a Twyla in elementary school, and 2) A few weeks back I saw the names “Donald & Twyla” in my WHs cell phone address book.

Me: That’s very coincidental. Just curious, did you used to live on XX Streeet? (The street I knew she lived on when we were in Elementary school).
Them: Yes!

Okay…so this is getting very weird. I get a person IM’g me, saying they are looking for a person that isn’t me, that lived on a street next to mine, AND the person IM’g me is a girl I went to elementary school with. I believe she is who she says she is because I asked her what her name was in elementary school and it was correct. And she described the house that she lived in as a young child, which was correct. This is going to turn out to be a “small world scenario” (hope you’re still with me).

We go on to share some life experiences, she talks about 1st and 2nd marriage, kids, jobs, etc. We both do the “this is just so weird routine”. BTW…we are both 44, so there was a lot of history behind both of us. She goes on to ask about me, marriage, children, etc…and I tell her, and in a indirect way I let it be known that “but hubby and I aren’t having such a good go of it lately”. She gives a canned “I’m sorry to hear that”.

Her:: I hope things work out
Me: Me too. But, just last night he left me and 2 young children for a married woman. It has been devastating.
Her: I can only imagine. Do you know who she is?
Me: I don’t know her but I know her first name
Her: What’s her name?
Me: (I tell her)
Her: oh sh**
Me: What?
Her: I have a friend that has been staying with me, that’s her name, and she just moved out
Me: What are you trying to say? She’s the one that moved in with my husband?
Her: I don’t know. I didn’t ask. She just called me up one day and said she needed to move in. Left her husband of 25 years and needed a place to stay. My husband and I are good friends with both her and her husband, so I didn’t ask questions because I didn’t want to get in the middle of it (this is hard to believe).

So we proceed to exchange information. Of course I wanted to know everything about the OW, and I was careful not to cross the line because I didn’t want a printed IM to go against me one day. In an indirect way, I was exposing the affair, if indeed this Twyla didn’t know what was going on.. ( Also, the mystery to the “Donald & Twyla” in my WHs cell phone address book was solved because this was the place that the OW was staying). All along I’m thinking this is just too coincidental (for her to “accidentally” IM me, and that she just happens to be the best friend of OW). Twyla went on to say that her friend moved out but she didn’t know where she moved to (again, not buying it). She went on to say that it shocked everyone when she left her spouse after 25 years – everyone thought they had the “perfect marriage”. BTW…they have no kids together. I asked her age, and found out it was the same as mine (44), which fits my WHs M.O. (he is usually attracted to woman that are older than he – he’s 39). I did say to Twyla that the OW was in for a lot of hurt. Twyla agreed, and constantly repeated that she hopes things work out for both sides (her friend, and me). She asked me if WH had ever done something like this before (affairs) and I said “yes, several times”. She said the OWs husband is devastated and doing everything to get them back together (which gives me some hope – at least he’s on my team). Twyla said she hasn’t been involved, but only encouraged both to seek counseling.

So…we exchanged more banter that really didn’t surmount to anything, but, in hopes that my comments indirectly make their way back to the OW or her husband, I let it be known that my WH says he still loves me and wants to go to counseling to see if we can save the marriage.. If this information gets back to the OW, I’m sure that will plant the seeds of doubt about their relationship.

My only fear is that this will blow up in my face with WH. While I didn’t prompt the contact with the OW’s friend, I did spit out things like “the OW will soon be hurt by my WH”. Which is casting stones at WH. (I wish, in jest, that I could cast boulders!).

I’m not sure what to make of the entire conversation. I don’t know if the OWs husband put Twyla up to it, or if the OW was fishing for info on me, or it was just friends that were curious as to who I was. The fact that I went to school with Twyla, I think, was purely coincidental, but I’m pretty sure the rest of this was planned.

Twyla asked that I not say anything to my WH about our conversation. This, to me, was a way to protect the OW or husband from WH knowing that “fishing” was going on. Keep in mind that WH filed a restraining order against the OWs husband, which means he can’t be in contact with me either (we’re both on the court document). So, if WH found out that OWs spouse was contact with me, he could be in trouble. Not sure. Just guessing.

So…not much came of this except I know a little more about the OW, her age, the length of her marriage, and the fact that this behavior was out of character for her and has everyone guessing what’s going through her mind. It could be a plus or minus for me. If she had a history of affairs, but went back with her spouse, her M.O. would dictate that this was just another notch on her belt and might soon return to her spouse (a plus), or, she is just sewing a few wild oats to shake off the 25 years and still may return after all the memories of 25 years pull her back (another plus). Or, the she’s had enough of the 25 years and has left the marriage for good (obvious minus). And, the fact that her spouse is desperately seeking a reconciliation is a plus for me. Not sure if any of this is helpful for my team, but it sometimes helps to shed a bit of light on the mystery of WHs relationship.

OW is trying to escape a 25 year marriage – whether she was bored, or secretly being abused, no one will really know what’s going through her mind. But I do know this: she is using my WH just as much as he is using her. She is also “seeking”. Leaving one person, especially someone you’ve built 25 years with, is not hard to shake. I’m just wondering what are the chances of her not following through with the separation. My feelings are that she wouldn’t want to throw away 25 years. But I don’t know her or her circumstance (I know…I’m rambling here). Either way, she’s trying to temporarily or permanently escape a 25 year marriage and is living a different life with a man (WH) that has a history of infidelities. If I had a bookie…I would be making some bets that this is doomed.