Thanks to everyone here who took time to read my posts, and gave me a suggestion, or share experiences.Special thanks to gemela and traicionado...
Gemela, traicionado, no conozco mucho los detalles de su caso, solo espero de corazón que ambos encuentren la felicidad donde quiera que esta esté.
Ambos me ayudaron mucho, me dieron paz, ánimo, etc etc.
Mil gracias traicionado, me ayudaste a tener paciencia, y tratar de entender todo el daño que le hice a mi esposo. Tu punto de vista en esto me ayudó enormemente.
Lo que viví como resultado de mi estupidez, tomará muucho tiempo en recuperarme.. con ayuda profesional además.. ahora me resta organizarme para que me dé tiempo de hacer todo..
ME ofrecieron un ascenso en el trabajo, eso podría implicar menos tiempo con mi familia, y de por si estoy muy poco.. cierto que de no aceptar esa oferta seguiré haciendo lo mismo que llevo haciendo desde hace 5 años.
Ya veré que decido.
Exito gem, traicionado...
Hasta pronto.

SEguro que de vez en cuando entraré acá me encantará ver si andan por acá y como les va..

Ciao!!

tear,

espero que estén bién. No dices si sigues en la lucha o ya abandonaste el intento. Ni modo. Vas a salir en adelante. Todo saldrá bién en una manera u otra.

No te puedo decir si gemela y yo vamos a seguir o no. Es medio deficil en mi caso debido a que gemela no quiere hablar ni buscar ayuda. Ella prefiere olvidar el asunto y, para mi, no funcionará. Yo le dije que si no resolvemos el problema, nos caeremos en lo mismo mas adelante. Me preguntó si pensé que ella es capáz de tener otro affair. Le contesté que sí - no cabe duda. Le pregunté lo mismo y me dijo que no - que no va a suceder nunca. Entonces le pregunté si había pensado que era capáz de tener su primer affair y también me dijo que no - que no era capáz. Le dije que estaba equivocada entonces y está equivocada ahora.

Bueno - es mi problema - no el tuyo. Cuídate mucho. Cuida a tu niña y a tu esposo. Espero que pueden salvar el matrimonio. Olvidate del OM. El es un problema esperando hacerse. Con respeto al trabajo, pon tu familia primera. El dinero no es todo.

best wishes for all

Respectfully .. I would not recommend this.

Have you been honest with your H yet... about there being MORE than ONE OM in the last year?

traicionado
Im going to put my soul in my M recovery.
I love my H and I hurt him a lot...thanks for all your posts here...
Say hi to gemela
Why does she havent post here?
I hope she is fine

tear,

Can you please post me a recipe for tinga?

piojito
sure, but for me is easier in spanish...Im going to look for one in english.

betrayed
It has been just two months since D day, we have good days, and bad days, Im very positive in this..most days are good..
My H still dreams in another bedroom...
Once I got angry about this, now I know he needs time..

piojito

last weekend I went to Acapulco beach, and it was good, but is better Cancun, I remember you are planning to go, I hope this wouldnt be in raining time.
Last weekend almost all country had rain.
If you can, verify weather...

piojito
Que tanto has avanzado en la recuperación de tu M desde el D day?
Creo que han tenido ayuda profesional ambos, es util?
Como sobrellevas los días difíciles?
Porque ya no ha escrito gemela?
Como la has reconquistado o intentas hacerlo?

We have been to MC and she has gone to IC but the results are not great. You can get a good counselor but there are many bad ones too. If you try it and are not happy, go find another one. We have currently stopped MC because she doesn't want it. I would say we are stuck. Not advancing but not regressing much.

Gemela has not written because she got really upset by something Stanley wrote. I did not read it but she told me about it. I respect her wishes in that.

Not all days are difficult. Some are quite easy. The difficult days get fewer with time but when they do come they are really bad. I cannot speak for gemela. I get through the difficult days by reminding myself that they are just feelings. That the goal of salvaging the marriage is still a good one and trying to preserve the family for our daughters is still a good one.

I think it is best if you keep telling each other how your are feeling. I think we are so intent on trying to read each other's moods. If I am depressed, I just tell her that and it prevents a lot of problems.

I think your husband especially needs IC. He needs to talk to someone. He cannot hold this all in. I tried to do that for a long time because of where we live. Finally I couldn't do it any more.

In on of your last posts, you made the comment that your husband didn't want to hear from someone who failed like he did. That was a very important comment. That is how he feels. You need to tell him that he did not fail - you did. You both failed in communication. You could have made things better and didn't. Learn from that. But he did not cause your affair even though he believes he did. Try to make him understand that.

Did gemela and you answer questionarie about her, and his needs (or whatever) that is suggested here to fill in order to begining recovery?
I want to fill it with my H.. Its amazing that even I have lot years since I know him, I still dont know what thinks I can do in order to make him happy.. I know some, but not all..
As a result of my illness (hipotiroidismo) and that I started to gain weight I went to a Slim Center and there is psicological support.. There I had three "consultas" with a psicologist.. I told her about my problemas at home (all).. She suggested express all my feelings, and I did.. This was one day before D day.... I wrote my H a letter, show him all my feelings, and in that letter I was giving up about our M...

Now, I understand that give up is not what I want, but the damage is done... my H thinks that I dont care a lot our relatioship... Algunas veces no se está listo para escuchar las cosas como son, y si te equivocas, cuando la persona es muy reconrosa, es mayor el daño que haces que si no hubieras dicho nada.. Es algo que no entiendo.

Its difficult, I think if just one has "terapy",, I know I cant change my H, just myself. I know that for have a fight, you need two persons, so I have my contribution there..
About to convince my H that he didnt fail, I cant do it, I spoke with him, first he blaimed for all this... I know anyone put me a gun in order to have an EA..

DEsde hace mucho tiempo teníamos problemas,,, incluso mi esposo me había dicho "asi como estás es muy facil que me seas infiel" eso lo dijo hace muuucho tiempo... pasó el tiempo y sucedió.. Lo que quiero decir es que a pesar de saber eso no hicimos gran cosa para evitarlo.... yo me desesperaba que aunque llorara mucho y le rogara porque me hiciera caso solo lograba que el se enojara conmigo y me sentía rechazada...

En otra ocasión yo le dije que necesitaba que se acercara más a mí, siquiera para darme un abrazo... y se lo pedí "dame un abrazo" y nada,,, le dije ok voy a decirle al policia de la colonia que me lo dé... solo entonces me dió el abrazo que le estaba pidiendo.....

son cosas que pueden parecer tontas o sin importancia pero para mí tuvieron mucha... mi esposo ya lo sabe.. y él cree que yo como decimos acá "me tiro al drama" algo así como darle demasiada importancia a las cosas...

En otra ocasión, cuando la "queja" era que ya no haciamos el amor, el dijo que yo solo pensaba en eso y que si tanto quería eso entonces que me consiguiera un amante.. en aquella ocasión me enojé mucho por ese comentario.. JAMAS crei que sucedería lo que pasó... No tuve relaciones con el tipo (OM) pero como dice mi esposo "me estaba trabajando y era cuestión de tiempo" yo decía que no que jamás lo haría, pero ahora que veo todo, lo mismo dije sobre tener un A... ocultar cosas, y hacer cosas a escondidas de mi esposo... eso eran llamadas y contarle mis problemas a un completo desconocido.. vaya que estúpida fui.

Como verás cuando de comunicación se trata no hemos sido buenos mi H y yo...

Y hay muchas heridas en ambos lados que tendrán que ser sanadas si queremos una completa recuperación.

Ojalá gemela tenga una amiga de confianza, o alguna lectura para que continue con su recuperación.

Comprendo que a veces si uno está susceptible, es muy duro leer algún comentario, y aunque uno quiera dejarlo de lado, no siempre es posible. Por eso la entiendo muchisimo. Le mando cordiales a mi paisana gemela, y que esté muy bien...

Bla bla bla conmigo no? yo soy así y mi esposo es todo lo contrario, no habla, es muy introvertido.... con todo y con todos.. y yo hablo "hasta por los codos" vaya pareja no? jaja

If things bother you after this much time, they are not little things. I don't think it is ever too late to recover from some things. I view them as opportunites for communication. For example, the letter. Your H probably remembers that letter too. He is now viewing it as a warning sign of the end that he failed to recognize. You should discuss that letter with him but tell him how you really felt, why you feel that you wrote it and how you feel about it now. Just sit him down and tell him there is something you need to tell him. Don't ask him to say anything. Don't let him say anything. Just say what you want and then walk away. Let him think about it before he reacts to it. It is better if he does not speak immediately. I did this with gemela quite a bit and it was effective I think. She did it too.

Okay now you have learned that your communication style was flawed and was very ineffective. Now is the time to begin a new form of communication.

I suggest you make an agreement with your H that you set aside a time each day to talk. Let's say he gives you 10 minutes or 5 minutes. You can say whatever you want to say and he cannot answer. The next day it is his turn. He talks and you don't answer. I would keep this up for a while until both of you start letting your defenses down. Then change the rule so both can talk with the understanding that there will be no arguments allowed. If either one starts to get angry, you quit until the next day. If H doesn't want to talk, don't make him. Just sit there for the agreed time and come back again tomorrow. And whenever you finish one of your talks, I suggest you finish by saying "aun te amo y quiero ser tu esposa" or something along those lines. Always end up by making it very clear where you stand on the marriage. You cannot say this enough.

Gemela and I always held hands while we did this. Always make eye contact too. If you are outside, no sunglasses allowed.

When gemela and I did this, I was amazed at how each of us had entirely misunderstood the other's motives and intentions. It gives you a new perspective. It doesn't necessarily solve problems immediately but it does help.

I think you need to eventually find out why your H didn't want to hacer el amor contigo. That is a bit unusual and there is a reason for it that he does not want to tell you. Maybe it was as simple as your weight. Even so, it is unusual. Maybe in one of your talks, when it is your turn, try this. Don't ask him why he didn't want to hacer el amor. Just tell him that it bother you that he did not and tell him how it made you feel. You don't want to ask him to explain himself. You want to tell him about you and your feelings. If he wants to explain himself to clear up a misunderstanding, he will do that in his own time and his own way.

Juts remember that there is nothing trivial or tonta. If it is on your mind, it is important. You just don't know why yet.

You said that the two of you never communicated much. You said he is not very communicative anyway. You are expecting something from him and you are not getting it and that makes you frustrated. Maybe he does want to communicate and does not know how. When children get frustrated and cannot express their feelings, they throw tantrums or break things. As parents we teach them to communicate through words rather than actions.

I am suggesting that you need to teach your husband to communicate just as you will your daughter in a few years. Show him how the two of you can begin to communicate with each other. Teach him how to open up and talk - even if it is only to you. Be patient just as you would with a child. He has had a lot of years to get the way he is. Don't expect him to change over night.

Sometimes I think of committing to revocery in a marriage like a Mexican standoff. I am not sure you know what that means because I think that is an American invention. Anyway, imagine two people standing about 2 meters apart and each has a pistol pointed at the other with their finger on the trigger. Neither one of you wants to kill the other one but you are afraid to drop your gun because then you will be defenseless and you really don't understand that the other guy really does not want to kill you. So little by little you each lower your weapons. First drop them so they don't point at the heart. Then a little more so that a bullet will miss most vital organs. Then maybe you point at each other's leg. If the other guy fires, it will hurt but won't kill you. That is a typical approach to recovering from an affair. It might work but takes a really long time.

The other approach is to let the other guy keep his gun pointed at your heart and you throw your gun onto the ground. You let him decide what he is going to do without any influence from you. I think that is maybe a better approach. Open yourself up. What is really the worst that can happen at this point that might not happen anyway? Are you willing to risk a little pain in order to save your marriage?

Thank you for all your suggestions, sounds logical that way to start comunnication with my H... Im afraid if he knows that is a way that I learned here, he is going to be on defense (a la defensiva) . He hate when I told him about someone else experience or thoughts,, he think that Im getting too mucho influence from someone else. and that I dont think for myself...
This weekend was another bad,, night.. another discussion,, another same behaviour,, me crying at the bathroom and my H layin in this bed... He showed me his feelings about once time tha I was sleeping all morning,,for he is a weekend wasted... time for enjoy, WASTED!!! I got angry at first, now I didnt say anything, at first time, then I told him that I got tired, because my work sometimes I neeed to work all night,,, I saacrifice my sleep a lot... and even I didnt sleep my daughter need atention as usual in morning.. I explained him,, why that day I was sleeping.. believe me Im an active woman.,, all day, some nights,, and worst was that I got sick that weekend when I was sleeping, .. but for my H was time wasted..
I dont understand how a person say that loves you, but got angry with you if you are tired or sick and need time for yourself? sometimes I doubt of my H's love.... maybe he thinks that he loves me, but it doesnt...
If I asked him "Do you love me?" he answered, "you knon I do".... if I told him "I love you " he said "me too".... (can this be normal just because my A or Im trying to justify him, and Im blind about his real feelings,,,"
I told him all this, he didnt say anything as always...
Again he told me that Im not doing my best in order to have a better M.., he said that my behaviour is normal, as if I havent done anytrhing wrong... and again he said that Im not in a position to ask him something.. that I need to be happy (agradecida) that he is at home...

He is at home, but he dont sleep in same bethroom.. why for somethings as spent time together on weekends and go to movie, or something, for this he is agree, but he still put his wall between us, sleeping in another bethroom?

Im going to try new communication way as suggested.. We need to do another thing, and not keep same and same way..

tienes que hacer algo. han estado atorados por demasiado tiempo. You are both stuck and don't know how to get unstuck. That is a great benefit of counseling but unfortunately he won't go. It is his machista pride the prevents him from going. I don't think your H wants to spend the rest of his life living this way. Help him find a way out of it. Show him how to communicate. Try different things and be patient with him but find something that works.

About your sleeping on the weekend, I can see both your points. Gemela always sleeps late when she has a chance (which is a lot). That used to bother me but I have gotten used to it. It still bothers me sometimes. It is selfish. It is gemela saying that she does not care about what I want. She has decided she wants to sleep. Also to have a better marriage, gemela and I should spend time together. The only time we really have is on weekends. So if she spends her weekend in the bed, she is robbing from our marriage as well.

Now on your behalf I will say that there are times when all I want to do is sleep on a Friday afternoon (my weekend). Unfortunately I have two DDs who won't let me. So all I do is dream that maybe one day I will be able to sleep on a Friday afternoon. Actually two weeks ago the planets aligned, kids were out of the house and I did sleep for two hours on a Friday morning. It was great.

So sleeping on the weekend is not a bad thing in and of itself. Marriage involves compromise. The only thing I can see that is bad about your husband getting upset with sleeping on a weekend is that it shows that both of you are being selfish and not willing to consider the other's point-of-view. That is what is wrong with this picture. It is not the activity - it is the attitude.



Ask him how you can show him that you know you did something wrong. Ask him what he expects but don't ask in a defiant or angry way. I think this is a really important point and you need to explore it. One of the things that really pisses me off about gemela is that she show zero remorse for destroying my life and almost destroying the lives of our daughters. She is not the least bit upset about giving me HPV. I would be a lot less pissed off if she had the slightest remordimiento. But gemela acts as if nothing ever happened and that me tiene encabronado.

Mmm, in my case in one year just maybe TWO TIMES I sleep on weekend... and its because Im getting sick, or something similar...
Thats why I cant understand why my H boters.. Instead of get worry for my health he just ask more from me...
Even he is a doctor, or maybe thats the reason why his behaviour is... he always hear about sickess and people with pain.. and if Im sick, I need to be too bad in order to get my H atention... We have had trobles because this...
Is like crossing home door he is just my H.. and doctor stay out...
However he is trying to fix this,, and poco a poco we are getting better..
About my behaviour,, I ask him, How should I show him my regret, about my error?
I wrote him some letters, I gave him some things, you know,, muñequitos asking for his forgiveness (perdón)..I took his hands and watching to his eyes and I asked him his forgiveness too...
I cooked things that he likes,,, even he didnt ate anything,...
I dont know, what else? I asked him How can I change my behaviour in order to show him that I know what damage I did to my family with my mistake (mi estupidez), and guees what he didnt say anything!!!!
So, as usual Im fregada...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

No te molestes! I am just trying to give you an outside perspective. The fundamental problem is that you two don't communicate. Sometimes even though we are adults, we act like little kids. Yesterday gemela called me at the office and I heard the kids in the background. DD1 and DD2 where in the pool and DD2's best friend, Yumna, was over and she was crying and asking gemela to take her home. She did not want to swim and was bored. DD2 then started crying because she didn't want Yumna to go home. Gemela told DD2 that Yumna had come over to play but didn't have anyone to play with because DD2 insisted on getting in the pool. They are 5 years old and you and your husband are acting exactly like them. The both of you need to grow up.

As far as what you can do to show you are sorry? I don't really know. I don't think it would be food. That shows guilt. For me, what I would want is to hear it. I would want gemela to tell me she was sorry. I would want to see it in her eyes. I would want to hear it day after day.

You are not fregada. You are frustrada. Ten paciencia. You are doing everything you know how to do and nothing SEEMS to work so you get angry. But how do you really know it is not working? People don't always say what they mean.

I used to lie to gemela to see how she would react. What convinced me to try to stay in the marriage was that she consistently said and did the same things. She got frustrated and, at times, was ready to leave. But she didn't. She straightened up her back and jumped right back in to the struggle. I would push her to the edge and she fought back. She did it time after time. That is what gradually changed my mind. You want a simple quick fix. It isn't going to happen.

In my opinion, you need to spend a lot of effort on communication. And when it doesn't immediately work, don't get angry. Keep trying.

Yes I know,, but its more difficult if just one spouse have this in mind... my H shows me interest in this only if I got crazy and say him , okk this is finish,, "we dont have any oportunity"
There are days when I feel optimistic and other pesimistic.. and sometimes I dont are, as you said Im frustrated, how can I guess what does my H like? if I ask and he doesnt answer...
Sometimes I put things in a balance (balanza) and I think that I cant have thinks that I had from my H when we were "novios" , when he was romantic, detallista, cariñoso, etc... My H told me this once.. "we cant do same thinkgs"
And maybe I need to acept that I cant have it...

He visto lo mismo con gemela. El unico problema es que poco a poco empiezo a creerlo. This is a bit dangerous. Sooner or later I think it will backfire. If you catch H in the wrong mood, he might just agree with you and you are done. I have told gemela this a few times. But I also meant it. If she had said yes let's get a divorce, I would not be married today. There is no guarantee and I can walk away any time so I am prepared to accept that possibility. If you are not, I would stop doing it. Look for another way.

Marriage and noviasgo are not the same thing. You can have romance in marriage but you also have the mundane. The marriage is what the two of you make of it. If you want nothing but to have a novio, get a divorce and go look for one but don't ever get married again. Some things were missing in your marriage that you needed. I think there were some things missing that H needed to. You just never told each other what they were. Right now is the time for each of you to decide what you want your marriage to be and then work for it.

But if you want roses every day and romantic dinners every night, don't stay married because no marriage is like that and it shouldn't be. Humans have an amazing capacity for creating boredom. If your husband treats you like a princess, buys you romantic gifts, takes you out each night for dinner and dancing, takes you out each weekend for romantic getaways, etc. You will learn to hate that soon enough. Why? Because it is boring and it is not real.

To be honest, it sounds almost like you are starting to fantasize about OM again.

No, Im not fantasize with OM, mi demanda de atención es desde hace mucho tiempo... El trabajo de mi esposo le impide estar en casa mucho tiempo.. el mio en ocasiones tambien y el poco tiempo que esta en casa, prefiere ver TV Porque dice que eso lo relaja... Y yo siento que aunque platique con el, mi H no pone atención... alguna vez me dijo que no entiende mi trabajo y por eso.. pero es que a veces ni siquiera me escucha, le pregunto "que te dije? y me dice, que? que dices?" eso es frustrante...
OM es untipo qué quizá demostró interés que en casa no tengo, pero una persona que según quiere ser solo tu amigo y no causarte problemas, jamás hubiera permitido que nos involucraramos en otro plan... Alguien que hace eso, o permite que suceda, no vale la pena.
Mi esposo puede ser gruñon, violento, y nada detallista pero es un buen hombre.. con valores morales.. y bueno ahora quizá es cuando menos cosas debo demandar de mi esposo por lo que hice....
El problema es que alguna ve me dijeron que debo ber como trata un hombre a su madre para ver como terminará tratándote y a mi punto de vista mi esposo tampoco demuestra demasiada atención por su mamá... quizá yo misma no he dado lo mismo para pedir algo similar no?''
No quiero rosas diario, pero creéme mi H es el menos detallista que hayas conocido... quizá compensa eso con el hecho de que no tiene vicios.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />