Keep asking him.

tear,

I have a question. You say there are a couple of things you don't want to do such as send a cariñoso email or un postal electrónico. Has your husband actually told you not to do this or are you just assuming he would be offended by it. If you are only making this assumption without ever having mentioned this to your husband, I suggest you ask his permission for you to do those things.

As a BS, I could go either way and I suspect your husband might too. If gemela were in your shoes and I were in your husband's shoes, I think I might actually like to get those emails even though I knew she used to do that with OM. The reason I would like it is that it would help break down a barrier between us. In other words, she would be taking down the walls she is using to separate her affair from our marriage. I think it would help me rather than hurt me.

I recommend you give your husband the choice. Don't just assume what he will say or do. You both need to change. Don't think for him.

tear,

I have been thinking a lot about some of your recent posts and something really bothers me. I am afraid you may be projecting your situation onto mine. Please remember that you and gemela are two distinct and different people. Gemela and I are choosing to separate because, if we don't we are going to kill each other. I honestly still believe our marriage has a good chance. I think we both just need time to cool down. I think gemela also needs to get back to her roots and spend some time with her family.

Please don't lose hope in your situation just because of me. I have told you from the beginning that if gemela had had your desire to make the marriage work, we would already be well on the way to recovery. For whatever reason, she does not have your same desire at the moment.

I still think you are doing many good things. I still think your husband needs counseling. I do expect to be back on MB in another six months talking about how great gemela and my recovery is going. So just don't give up hope. The fact that your and your husband are still together says a lot. Time makes all the difference.

Argg another post lost..

Yesterday I wrote here and its missing!!!

Hi
Things at home are bad, I angry with my H and frustrated also... several times I asked him if he wanted to recover our M or not, if he wants share his life with me. This straight question was a result of some behaviour of my H that I didnt understand, some days he shows a little interest, and other none.. He is obsessed about my EA, he denies to speak about this but inside him is obsessed... he got violent sometimes, he dont want to see good things that I had done in order to recover our M.. believe me I have done a big effort, but I think Im out of patience (paciencia) . I got my limit...

During all our M (6 years) I have been the one who made almost all decisions, and my H had have less responsabilities,, this has been an issue in our relationship, and this time I have enough.

My H need to be more mature...he never answer my question about our marriage, and his behaviour is so strange,,, for him Im the one who needs to be doing love deposits on our bank love... I was doing, or at least I was trying,,, but he is blind, his pain, and pride is so big that he didnt see anything....

For example, for he is ok if we go to the movie, or to the park as family, but he doesnt want to go to any relative party... he was sleeping in another bedroom until I told him that if he didnt put something of his part, our M is going to failed...

We had a party last weekend, for me it was important, even my parents came from my town only to go to the party. Party was on Cuernavaca a town 3 hrs from here... by highway,,, I never had driven on highway,,, and I asked him go with me,,, he said I dont know, but suddenly he said " I need to work all day (on Saturday!) and I cant go" I was so mad... this showed me that he is not commited with our M... just for some things but in hole not...

Our role in our family is not equal,,, I have hole responsability of almost ALL!!! and is not fare ... (no es justo) and he said, this is not true, and he wants that I be a housekeeper, a worker, a mother, and all. and he said, "you didnt do anything!!!! " ... I need to have everything working at home, and he sometimes give money, but most of times I need to ask him for it, I work also, and my work is demanding too, so is not fare.

Its difficult to express myself in another language, but Im trying... well, last Thursday I told him, "ok thats it!!! , since tomorrow, we are going to chage our way to live here, we are going to share responsabilities, and paids (pagos?) " He got furious, and said, ok, you are more interesting in a party than in our marriage, and if we are going to divide all, I returned to the other bedroom" and he went to the other bedroom...

I feel a little relief, I dont know why but I feel a little one.... I started to record, all my payments, and at end month we are going to divide it.. now, if my H wants to eat he needs to cook himself... if he want to wash his clothes also,. All time all things that I did for him, he said it was so easy , and for him that was my duty as his wife,,, (and in that case his duty would be give me money right?)
He never shows interest about if I have money even for my daugher doctor, or something... For all things I need to remmber him about "hey we should pain gas, or electricity, or telephone, etc..."
He said he would do a deposit to our savings because we paid a membership of a sport club.. but as I never remember this,,, he didnt do.... and his reasons was "you never told me the account"

He never accept any error, he always justify himself giving guilty to others....

My father and mom was here (in fact my mother is going to leave this weekend) last weekend, and he was without speaking with them, as if they had the guilty of my EA, or something stupid... his pride machista is killing him, and I told h im, ok with you Im not gonna be in any party of your relatives... (our family lives in another town), he consider this a revange, and maybe it is... But Im so angry...!!! I can go to visit my mother in law, I confessed her all about my A (my H got angry, he didnt want to tell to anyone!) well I can go to visit, but not with my H... I dont want to go to any place with him.

Yesterday we went to shopping with my parents, I invited my H to go and he denied...

Even to feed our dog now is a respnsabiliity for both.. he is going to do it Tuesday and Thursday, and Saturday, and I Monday, Wednesday, Friday,.and Sunday.... (the idea to have a dog was him, and he didnt help to care the puppie), I was the only one to care the dog..

I know this is not helping my M my believe me I had enough... first because I had remorse about my A, even I stay at home even he hit me some times... but I think we deserve a good life, and be happies,,, and most important, my daughther.

I know my H (or I think) and for he this action is just doing what I want, and he is angry also, and we can stay this way until I do somethin else....

I dont know what to think,,, but Im so frustrated!!!! (and angry)

(BTW I drove to the Cuernavaca town, for the first time.!!! and my H didnt asked "How drove?", ) He didnt call by phone not even to ask for his daughter.. maybe he is so selfish and tried to stay in same state as a victim (as some days before D day) )
Im furious!!

Now I dont care if he eats or not, of he has his clothes clean and ironing... not... even I told him if your car get broke, you are going to use public bus,,, (becauseI always borrow him my car, becuase he work far).. but he never "see" this things....

Just the day before last time he hit me... he saw good things that I did for him... but because he was with "remordimiento" of his ira...but he never ask for my forgivnes,, he said "you have the guilty, because you got me furious!!".

My first and biggest concern is for the dog. I am afraid that el pobre perrito se va a morir de hambre.

Movie titles never translate well to Spanish so they are hard to find. I still remember the hours I would spend in Blockbuster video in Venezuela trying to describe what movie I was looking for and ending with nothing but frustration. Anyway, your situation reminds me of a movie titled "War of the Roses" with Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner. They divided up their house into areas for each one and marked them off with tape so that each would stay out of the other's space. I am not trying to be funny. That movie, although intended to be funny is actually quite sinister and sad. In case you have never seen it, I will ruin the ending for you - they both end up dead.

I decided a while back that I did not want my situation to deteriorate to the point it sound like you have gotten to. There was a point where I began to sleep downstairs but I forced myself out of it. I think I only did it for two days. In my case I have decided that I have to separate from gemela to preserve any chance of saving the marriage. In short, we can only take so much.

If you keep doing what you are doing much longer, you will only hate your husband and will end in divorce. After that the only time you will ever talk will be to argue about your daughter. She will then become the centerpiece of your war. I think I asked you before if you had a way to separate for a while. You need to do something to get your BH out of his hole. He is going to make himself mentally ill.

First, he needs serious counseling.

You both need marriage counseling.

You both need to agree on some guidelines for remaining together while you work things out.

If you do separate from your BH, you should have a plan. You should explain why you are separating and what you require before you will agree to get back together.

Your BH has been in his obsessive state too long. Is he still drinking? I ask that because alcohol may be part of the cause of his paranoia.

I don't know how much of what you write about your husband's behavior is true or how much is coming from your anger. If everything you said were true, I am not sure why you married him to begin with. If you do get him to go to marriage counseling with you, I think there is a lot you two will need to work out. Please try and convince him to go.

Cuernavaca is one of the places I am thinking of retiring to. I have spent some great times there. Close enough to DF but not nearly as crowded, great weather.

We are not in a war. I know this is not helping my M. I want to wake up my H.
He is so passive about this,, and he is obssesed for the A..
He is going to stay in that stage until he wants....
Yes everything I said before is true,, I married with him because some time ago for me was ok if I decided all in our marriage.. since my Daughter was born and now that she is growing up, I cant do everything... and my work is demanding also... I had spoken with my H about this, but he only get mad and nothing change.

Dont worry about our pet, I not so cruel and I verify if my H feed it.. If he didnt (I do) until now my H had done days that are his responsability.

I remember somethings about that movie (here is Kramer vs Kramer I think) and we are not in that case, we are not fighting...

In fact last sunday we went to lunch together to a restaurant... we spoke a little, and we are going to pay everythin by half....

I wrote him an email yesterday, I told him that I love him but I feel that he doesnt love me,, and I wrote him that I dont know what is going to happen in our M, but I pray for help...
AS usual he never answer.

Today I invited him to the movies, no answer either,

Even he accepts the invitation to the movies, I dont want to return to our initial stage...

You are right I need a plan.

And I shouldt decide something if Im mad.

If you are not in a war and you keep going the way you are going, you will soon be in a war. That is the point I am trying to make. You may be doing all these things for your H now to try to save the marriage but, if he continues to respond as he is, you eventually will no longer want the marriage which will defeat the purpose of all the effort you are making now.

One of my biggest fears when I made the decision to try to save the marriage was that I might get to the point that I no longer wanted the marriage. If gemela didn't want the marriage either, that would be fine. But what if she did want the marriage and I didn't? I would feel obligated to stay out of "duty".

I was joking about the dog in a way but on the other hand, would you do that with your daughter? Would you make your H feed her on alternate days? I don't think so. Don't bring the dog into the middle of this either. He is just a poor animal that loves you both. Be nice to him. The dog didn't ask for this.

I don't think you can continue on as you are for much longer. Violence is still a very bg concern for me. Some obsession about the affair is probably pretty common but doesn't last all that long IMO. Your husband's obsession seems like it is becoming psychotic. He seriously needs help. How can you convince him to get help? What do you need to do to pull him out of the hole he has put himself in? How can you get his attention?

Can you expose him? Just an idea. If you want someone to stop a behavior, there has to be a punishment for the bad behavior. How can he be punished (castigado)? Punishment can be many things and not necessarily all severe. What you have done so far is not working. What else can you try?

You could try not making his food - oh, wait, that didn't work.

You could try no sex - didn't work either.

What else can you do?

Can you tell his friends and coworkers about your EA and the result it has had on your M and ask them if they can talk to your husband? I am not saying do it. I am just asking if it might help. The biggest problem I can see is that your H refuses to talk to ANYONE about this. He needs to let out all that rencor he has built up inside.

Well, my H until I know is not drinking,, and last time when he hit me (por la espalda en mi cabeza) he wasnt drunk.
We started to divide all since past friday (just 5 days) and as he always are working, we see us few time.. two nights per week he sleep at work.. and other day (wednesday) he arrived until 11pm at home. So our life is as always.
Just his clothes, are still dirty because I didnt washed last weekend...
For he Im like a gost, and he just speak to me because of home stuffs or our daughter,.. thats it!
I dont know what to think, about your question "how can I get his attention?" I dont know,,, maybe if I lose 10 kgs!!
Im not ugly, or too fat,, just I was in better shape three years ago... my hipotyroidism only made me be more fat. but I think even this, when I use skirt (falda?) I look good, but he never sais anything....
Maybe if I go a trip with my daughter only...
Im afraid I can be in a stage where I dont care what happen to him... if we continue in this way, but why he doesnt say anything?
My parents came last weekend and he was so ,.... I dont know how to explain, he doesnt stay at home, and my mom asked me "Does he is mad because we arrived?"
As if my parents has guilty of our troubles....
About the dog, I understand your concern and your point, and my goal to do this, is make him a little more responsable, and share duties...
Let me explain you that our dog was scared about my H, because days before D day he kicked strong the dog.., just because the dog pass in front of him!! and the poor animal was a puppie... I asked my H not hit the dog,, and then you know who was the hited...!!
My H doesnt spent time with the dog, I dont understand why he brough the dog to home...
Yesterday I asked him, "are you gonna feed the dog?" and he said yes.. and he did it..
About sex, since too much time ago, we were having troubles in this field.... and I think this was a symptom that there was another trouble in our relationship.
What else?
MAybe if I change my behaviour, again ,and try to be the best wife maybe but just maybe he wakes up.. but I need to be sincere I dont want to do it not if my H dont even say ANYTHING,,,,, maybe he is havins his A? no I dont think so...
As my mom is at home he is in his world. He is very estrict with my mom, and I havent with his mom. well thats another problem...
Ok, thanks for answer me piojito... believe me if I couldnt write here, I would be crazy...
Thanks for sharing your ideas, and your experience,,, what a life! eh! you are the BS and Im the WS and even our feelings are so different we can help us.. well as someone said.. "por algo pasan las cosas" .. and maybe is good for me to know a thought about a man who was a BS as my H and maybe I can understand him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

thank you.

Well sooner or later you are going to end up hating your husband and be desperate for a divorce. You simply cannot continue to go like you are going and just "hope that things will get better". That is where I got to with gemela. She just hoped that things would get better magically and without any effort. I took her to Bahrain for the weekend since it was her birthday. She wanted to go shop for a white gold bracelet. So she gave me the responsibility of finding the gold souk. She wore a very revealing top and then proceeded to walk around everywhere trying to hide herself with her purse. We were in one shop and she was looking at quite a few bracelets. I decided to sit down and rest a bit because I knew we would be there a while. As I waas sitting and observing her, it occurred to me in that moment that I really don't like this woman very much. It made me angry that she was buying gold bracelets. I don't know why it made me angry - it just did. If I could have divorced her in that moment, I would have.

I guess my point is that you just cannot go on like this forever. You need to do something to get your husband to wake up and get help. Until he gets help, I cannot see your marriage improving much.

my wife or soon to be ex wife had a friend she was talking to every day on the phone behind my back when i found out i took it just as bad as if she was having sex with him and i couldn't get over it,a emontional relationship is just as bad as a sexual one if not worse! once you break that trust its very hard to get it back

atalose

I understand your point of view, and Im agree, SA and EA is same, I failed to my trust husband, I lied, I was silly, stupid, idiot, ..... I was vulnerable, because I was emotional far away from y H since some time ago, before EA...

Do you know when and why do you stop to be your wife best friend?

TEAR

I'm just in the middle of reading your entire post from the beginning.
In my own case, it's been a two year journey to nowhere, and I've done a lot of reading on several message boards (it's interesting to compare the different ways of trying to solve the problem). In your case I still see some hope, as long as you stay interested in your marriage.

Just like piojitos said in post some time ago, I am concerned about any physical violence (to hit you), especially when he is not drunk. This is definitely unacceptable, and if he does not stop that you absolutely MUST get out of there. But first, tell him that you will leave if he hits you, and tell him clearly and exactly, and so that there is absolutely no doubt about it: "If you hit me I will leave you". Physical violence only gets worse by tolerating it, and it is far too dangerous for your life.

But besides that....
He is trying to punish you, and as long as he is continuing so, it means that he is still interested. All the things he does (not talking, refusing to cooperate, not doing his clothes) are games he is trying to control your behaviour. But now it is getting too long, and too far. He is inventing his own methods that he thinks will be his success. At this point he has become like a child who wants to punish his mother by hurting himself.

And this is the most important part: He thinks this kind of behaviour will get him the result he wants. He is doing that because he has no experience in how to solve the problem, he has not better way of doing it, and he cannot see that he will be getting the opposite of what he wants. He needs marriage counseling, but it will be almost impossible to make him go there - because he has been taught this macho-nonsense, a wrong image of what it means to be a "real man." (a real man does not ask for help, only a weak man asks for help, etc).

But you can start on your own. Of course, I don't know what kind of counselling you can get in Mexico, if anything at all (I am in Canada, I'm really interested in finding out what would be available in your country). Get whatever help you can find for yourself in Mexico. Tell us what is available.

You did some things already that are right. You told him, you are serious about working on your marriage. Most importantly, you are ACTING like it - you are doing, not only talking. You are on the right track. You are inviting him out to a movie, etc - that's good.

Now it is his turn. Make him understand, that you are doing what you can, and let him know it is HIS CHOICE now. (in truth it is not really, you are working on it).

Make little, very small opportunities to change his mind. Ask a girlfriend out to lunch or the movies or wherever, tell him when and where, and offer him to come along and join, and don't worry about the answer ! He has to get over this macho nonsense, just go with or with out him, but be totally reliable in what you say, which means go out with exactly the girlfriend, and exactly to the place that you said you would. Establish a new history of being reliable. You can act like a trustworthy person, all on your own, and his response does not need to stop YOU from doing so. You can be trustworthy with him or without him, and it will bring peace of mind to YOU.

Make your offers of what you are willing to do, and then leave it up to him to respond. If he chooses to walk around in dirty clothes after you offer to help, this is his choice.

Make it easy for him to respond or agree, but if he stays in his childish way, let him. Don't do it for him - he is not a child.

Hope this helps. Please, keep writing.

Thank you very much DMbx for your words....
I have optimistic and pesimistic days about my M.
Problems that made me feel that my H doesnt love me are still in our M, and now since D day are worst than before...
He doesnt want to speak about how was my work day, he prefers watch TV than speak with me, and stuffs like that...
I have spoken with him about his needs but he always got angry and feels that Im just complaint about him.. he doesnt think that is an oportunity to get closer and to have a better M.
Im agree with you I need professional help, for my own, and I need to be in peace with myself in order to be a better person, and mother, and wife, if my H shows interest in our M..
About violence, about one month ago, I told my H that if he hit me again, I would leave him... but guess what,... he did it and even I pack my luggage, I could leave my home, why? it was 3am in the morning, weather cold, and as my H started to cry because I was giving away from his daughter (3 years old) ,then my daughter started to cry also and say "mom I dont want to go anyway, I want to sleep here with dad" I just couldnt do it, and I know that this behaviour doesnt help me.. I havent failed in my promise about leave him if the hit me again..
Im afraid he can hit me again, and try again to use my daughter to keep us in house...
And another question, why should I need to leave house in the middle of the night with a 3 years old daugher? why my H doesnt leave either?
Im frustrated, when my H and I speak, he use to say nothing, and got angry... and then I try to answer the questions that he doesnt answer...
I dont know how to find a good conselour, this is a big city, and maybe I have lucky and find a marriage coselour..
Ups I need to continue working as this is the only place where I can write in this post.

Tear,

It is NEVER acceptable to be hit by your spouse I don`t care what you have done. That is an IMMEDIATE dealbreaker.

You don`t need a marriage counsellor you need an abused woman`s counsellor. You can find that type of counselling for free in any big city. Look in your phone book. Call a local health clinic. Women`s shelters can help you get back on your feet. This is what they do....they are professionals in dealing with this type of situation.

This is NOT okay. This cannot be justified. This will escalate overtime. Good worthy emotionally stable men do not hit their wives. EVER... for any reason. Your H will need to take some anger management courses BEFORE getting back together with you. You both have some personal issues to work on BEFORE you can become a strong healthy functional couple.

You leave him in the middle of the night with a three year old in tow so you DON`T GET HIT ANYMORE. Your personal safety and wellbeing is paramount here. You daughter is watching you. If she sees you living with this type of treatment she will accept the same type of treatment in her own marriage later on. You have to break the cycle NOW.

Please give a women`s shelter a call.

Hola Lagrimas,
soy nueva al foro de MB and queria saber si podias mandarme un email yo estoy casi igual que tu pero mi caso ya tiene desde Feb. 06 y han pasado muchas cosas mas... espero saber de ti pronto para darte mi experencia y poder ayudar a tu caso...

Hi again,
Giving good advice is of course a problem for those of us who don't live in your country.
In the big cities in the US and here in Canada -- a women's shelter, emergency numbers, and accomodation at 3 a.m. in the morning are available by making a couple of phone calls, or a call to the police. I assume that the situation is very different in other countries. For us, we easily give advice based on expectations that are true in *our* own cities! And that may not work very well for you.

When I said to leave him if he hits you again, I meant basically separating your life from his life for a while, whatever way is possilbe. The best situation is if *he* gets kicked out of the house, and it is him who has to find a new home.

If you leave the house, and he stays there, it means that you are getting all the problems, and he does not.
The other side of the story is this: If you tolerate physical violence even just a few times, it usually gets worse. Then the man thinks - no reaction is giving him permission to continue. Very soon he will not believe you anymore when you say you are going to leave, he heard you say it before, and it was not true.

On the other hand, if you do walk out before it becomes a habit, it may wake him up, _finally_, when he sees that he will lose everything. But, if wait another year and do nothing, and it will have become impossible to fix.

- - - We hear a lot of stories here that the police in Mexico is pretty useless (we can only guess the truth...) What other kind of assistance services exist near where you are? What are the laws? Where could you get information about what choices do have?

Do you have family? How far away do they live? How far away from your job is it?

I'm not sure if you feel comfortable talking so much about this one part of the problem, but it is important to think about it, but it is my feeling you cannot solve any other problem without solving this one?

All the best. Does anybody else on this message board knows more about services in Mexico?

Greetings. We're with you.

Daisy

Well I dont want to sound that Im justify my H. Im agree that both have a problem handling our ira...Why both? well I havent wrote here hole story.

Im not cobard, and I always said that I never accept anyone that hits me... and even Im brave I was quiet also.. I learned tae kwon do when I was a teenager... and I know more or less how to defending myself..

My A was my biggest mistake I had done in my life... and I unrecognized myself also.. but whatever I did it and I think that first time when he hit me.. when we crossed that line, I was so stuborn, and I almost provoced him... I know there isnt any justification here. but when he started to scream I scream also, and I how can I say in english, when someone is challeng you. (te reta), and I stand in front of my H even he had warned me that he could hit me...
Then he hit himself in the wall, and well, we were agree that violence is not helping anyone..
Then, in another argue, he closed his bedroom door and guess what I was kicking the door in order to he opened... and even I took a kitchen tool and started to hit the door,, then I had "sucess" and my H finally openend the door... and when he threated me about hit me again (for second time) guess what I did? I told him "ok, you hit me and Im going to hit you too, with this kitchen tool" our argue continued and finally he hit me and I hit him also with that tool and even I didnt hit him strong I left him with a shoulder hurt.. for almost a week...
Then I realized that my "defense" against his violence was to be on guard with that kitchen tool, and then as he was hurt first time, he thinks two times before hit me again...
I know that my behaviour was as bad as him, my ira got me blind and instead to solve problems, I increased them..
Third time that he hit me, was because I wanted to speak with him and he leave the house and in my frustration and desesperation, I called him by phone I lied him about that I was drinking as he did when he felt terrible.. I told him "not just you can be drunked, I can also" and he got angry and returned to our home.. and I was pretending to drink, and I put me some hearphones and I was listening music, when he hit me over my head, but I was giving him my back.... For me this was so cobard, I wasnt prepare and is something that we need to work in order to forgive and forget, and learn about this in order to not ever do it again.
As you can seen Im not a quiet woman, that keeps sitting, I defending myself.. but the idea is that I dont need to be this way right?
The tool kitchen is like a heavy harmer.
I know now that my behaviour was terrible, and thats to God that my daugher was sleeping in those moments... but I dont want to my daughter thinks that this behaviour is normal in a marriage...
I know he need help also. because he is angry with me because he said I didnt respect him and I chalenge him (lo reto) I think he is too macho
For my country stereotype Im a tall woman and Im not an inocent one..
However this facts, Im agree with all you that violence is not the solution, and if he hits me again, he is going to leave the house..
Im going to tell him in a quiet moment...
I need to take care of myself in order to take care to my daughter.. right? and I was a stupid fighting with a man, that is stronger, I put myself in risk and I learned the lesson...
When I was a girl and I fight with my daughert (4 years older than me) I always said "no matter if she win the battle Im going to defending myself, and at least Im going to leave her a brown eye) jajajaj <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
As you can see in this story I have put things in order to have the results that now I have...
"One receives that one seeds" "uno recibe lo que uno siembra"


BTW I live in Mexico City. edo mex

It is good that you are open about how things happened.
Would it help to if you communicate with your husband by writing - email, for example, just to change direction, and explain yourself that way. I know you said you sent him email, and he did not respond. But he probably read it anyways.

The goal would be to first cool things down, keep some distance, and avoid direct confrontations. Would writing be a possibility?

Even just for yourself, explain things to yourself, and make it clear in your own mind.

I have tried this... without response... as during my EA I use emails, and electronic greetings cards. My H said that all this things remember him my EA, and the way that OM called me. (love, or honey)
My H never have been romantic and OM was the oposite... so its hard..
My H said that he botters if I send him an email, or a card, because he prefers that I told him all things.. and y0u know we havent good communication..

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />