SD is the best, and the others as well. I'm particularly grateful for SD's help. You're lucky to have him and the others working to help you.

Re my message above. I agree she is speaking a lot of fog babble. And I also guess that there may, in the past, have been a signal from your WW as to her disaffection. Can I suggest again that you think back to before, and think about what were your WW's fundamental issues with your M?

In my case it was very helpful for me to clearly demonstrate that I understood my own WW's issues with me, and to show that I am working my hardest to address my own flaws.

I don't know if that applies to you, but IF there is something there, that approach may help to remove myself a bit from her babble, by giving you something else to focus on. Also it is major Plan A territory - a sure and convincing demonstration that you are providing a safe place for her.

Hi weneedhelp...here is a link to a thread i posted - with some history of my major lb...i have worked very hard to rectify this situation (a battle between us and my family)...i am also working very hard on any other lbusting stuff i do.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2976833

let me know if you have any thoughts or suggestions.
thanks.

Teach yourself not to hang on every word she says.... When in a confused state a WS wavers back and forth with no rhyme or reason. If you allow yourself to follow HER thought processes during this wavering stage, it will make you completely crazy. Hence the emotional detachment.

Why don't you see if she'll be open to a phone appointment with the Harley's. They are reputed to have a knack for "reading" the WS, and knowing how to get them to step out of the fog for a bit. This would require no accusations from you, just a suggestion that perhaps an independent third party would help her "find her way". Expensive, yes, but cheaper than divorce, or spending money on far less qualified counselors.

Think about it...

SD

*weneedhelp*...thanks for the kind words...glad things are working out for you and your W. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I have asked her numerous times to go to MC with me...telephone or in person...she said no...she is not interested. i think she is afraid.

i need help in finding patience. she just acts like everything is fine...but we don't touch - we don't talk about it - there is no affection - no talk of the future. The OP that i suspect she has a lil crush on - she talks about all the time and i feel like she is trying to cover her tracks on it. The Op's father just passed away - and she feels the need to tell me everyone from work calls or text messages once a day just to check in. she tells me how strong he is (something she never says about me - I am a wimp.)

I am so tired of all this and don't know how long i can go without talking to her about us...and where this is going.

her contract with her job runs out in a couple of months and i feel like she is just using this time to see if it gets reupped...and to see if she can get together with the OP who is also currently 5 yrs married, owns a house, etc.

how long to i just be silent. i feel like i am placating her bs and would rather her just go if she wants to go....so i can just get on with my life. If i didn't have my daughter i would have already done this.

""she tells me how strong he is (something she never says about me - I am a wimp.)

I am so tired of all this and don't know how long i can go without talking to her about us...and where this is going.""


hey bro...my heart goes out to you...but you need to go back and read some of my earlier posts...OK...

go buy that book i recomended...it may help you see things in a new light!

hang tough!!

I second SD's comments. Maybe she will find phone counseling easier than in-person MC?

At a similar point my FWW was silent and sullen. SD advised me to ask her 'what do you think are the biggest walls between us?' I did. That opened a floodgate and got her really talking about her deep fundamental issues with our M. I wonder if that could happen for your WW also. But don't ask until you can handle her responses in your very best Plan A fashion.

If so, it could give you more info on what else you can do to meet her ENs. But be careful about any fogbabble - emotional detachment and focus on anything meaningful she says.

i will try this question..."what are the biggest walls between us?" it is a good one...especially because i didn't think there were many...you know the usual stuff that happens when you live with someone...but i had no idea she was brewing for so long.

i would love to close my eyes and makes this one go away...i hate to wait ... i am a fixer and so this quiet before the storm is killing me. but perhaps it is my biggest lesson to learn? i really don't know.

Make sure you are dealing with your W and not a fog-bound alien when you iniate this discussion. It is up to you to choose the "right" moment, when things are at the warm/fuzzy level, not at a level when she's being difficult, aloof and/or combative.

When you choose the time, LISTEN CAREFULLY to what she has to say, and HONESTLY evaluate her concerns or criticisms of you. Take what she says to heart, and set forth to correct any behaviors YOU are responsible for. Consider this self-improvement for the sake of the marriage. All a part of Plan A, I might add.

Patience, my friend...

SD

i believe she is going to be a fog-bound alien for some time...i am not sure if i will even recognize her if/when she comes out of it.

Hey board...good morning. well I do believe i am coming out of my ws's fog. My esteem is making a come back and i am feeling pretty good. although i still get sad and angry - i believe i am managing my feelings better. I am afraid that once i am completely fog free i won't want her anymore? Maybe thats why we allow ourselves to spin around in their nonsense?

Someone posted to me a bit about how humans have a tendancy to cry over one rotten apple - while a barrel of beautiful apples sits right next to them. i think about this alot and am certain i don't deserve this treatment.

i just got a very big promotion at work...the timing couldn't have been better. I was instructed by w not to talk about my successes on the job (i beleiev she was jealous) so sadly i haven't even told her yet. but i thought i would share it here.

I keep up with plan a - but i don't know if it is working or if it just makes it easier for her to stay until she is ready. anyone have any thoughts on this?

The positive things you do while in Plan A do nothing when considered one at a time. It is the CUMULATIVE effect that makes a difference. WS's seldom believe your changes are going to be permanent. Sadly, a BS must prove the changes are real, and permanent.

Think of her as standing behind a block of granite. Each positive thing you do knocks a chip out of the granite about the size of a tennis ball. A successful Plan A, and all the positive changes you make, and positive things you do slowly reduce the granite block.

One Love Buster will undo a weeks worth of chipping away at the granite.

Stay the course.

On the matter of your promotion, work it in to a conversation, without any braggadosio or fanfare. Suggest a celebration, though, just you and her and take her to a favorite restaurant of hers, leaving the kid with a sitter. Have fun, with absolutely NO relationship talk. Rekindle the connection that was good enough to lead you to marriage. Have the sitter place a thoughful gift for your W on your bed while you are gone, along with a long stemmed red rose. Have a note on the gift that tells her how special she is to you, and how you cherish her very existance.

No "I love you's". Just pleasant, positive thoughts.

Remain calm, and assume your role as the man in the relationship. Do not let her lead the conversation to relationship talk. Just tell her the night is about having fun together, and those talks can wait.

Do it your way, creative, thoughful, completely in control. It's called "romance"! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

OK?
SD

great idea shattered...i asked her about a babysitter yesterday and she seemed receptive...which she hadn't been 2 weeks ago (then she didn't want to be with me at all) so i believe there is small bits of progress being made ...slow but sure. i will try your suggestions - i am a romantic - and have always wined and dined her - bought small gifts etc...but now i am so on guard that everything i do will be misrepresented and used against me. it sucks eh? i will
take your advice and chip away and my granite alien wife <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

""saenz...i don't have much to offer in the way of advice. I am in the throes of the same crap as you. my w hasn't moved out...but she is playing with my head big time and has talked about splitting...she needs space, blah blah blah...it is all so typical - everyone posts the same thing. Maybe 5 yrs is a turning point for some people - its not fresh and new anymore and they just don't have the maturity and commitment to know how to love beyond the hormone stage.

Anyway...find strength in yourself and don't let her bring you down...she wants you to be desperate and needy so she can use it against you....telling you your not strong enough, your a wimp, your not who she thought she married, etc...

just block it out...find a point in the room to focus on and smile and block it out. Don't let her see you sad ever again...she doesn't deserve to see your pain.

take care of business...$$$ and kids - make sure you aren't going to get taken.

if she comes back it will be up to you whether or not you want her.

good luck and be strong... ""





hey bro..i saw you put this on another site....GOOD for you!! your learning "grasshopper"!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

the apples comment....yes....that was me...i love cliches and little saying...i got 100's of em if you want em... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

hang tough!!!

heres another quote of the day for ya...

"To give a man back his heart is the hardest mission on earth"

(from the movie "Michael")

Hey sturgis...yeah i am trying...it seems to be working everyday i get stronger and the shock has worn off. I am good and regardless of what the alien decides - me an my kid will be alright.

thanks for the apples - it stays in my mind.
i keep thinkin about all those pretty apples <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

wow i gotta say the weekends are tough...i am with her 24/7 and all i want to do is touch her and tell her i love her...this is brutal. its like she is hunkered down to make me suffer.... i am hangin tough but #$%&@! this is hard.

Remember, God will not give you a challenge greater than you can conquer. But, yes, it's HARD! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SD

You can do it CL. It may be hard - even the hardest thing you've ever done - but you can do it. Hang in there. From a friend:

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Philippians 4:13

hey wnh & sd - thanks for the pep talk...it is the hardest thing to do - this has been the toughest year of my life...my family...my wife...but i am still here...and so is she - so all i can do is trust and believe that it will work out somehow. She does not forgive easily - she does not break down - she is tough and stubborn - I am not - at least when it comes to her. I am trying to navigate through this - with my plan. We went to a ball game on friday night and had a great time. so i am seeing some results.....she is letting me touch her a little - but she doesn't initiate anything...????

I am beginning to doubt the affair stuff a little now - because there are no calls or texts or anything going on...i checked on the e-mail situation and can find nothing. I don't want to be naivie...but i am a little hopeful.

it is a long race to win her heart back.

CL,

I have just read your complete thread. Like we have said, we have a lot of things in common. I wish I would have reached out for advise a little earlier than I have. I thought I would be able to sort things out. I know you are struggling because we are in such similar situations, but I can tell through your postings that there has been a change. You have inspired me to be stronger with my wife. She won't leave like I think she will. It will throw her off guard because she thinks I am at her will. She may not even realize she's doing it, but she is. Stay strong my friend. You are on the path to happiness, with or without her. We tell ourselves we CAN'T live without them, when the truth is that we DON'T WANT to live without them. There is a big difference. It's a choice. Either way, you are learning and becoming a better man because of this...and, like they say, life's biggest mistakes are those that you don't learn from.

Lost