Well, W came home Sun. I didn't talk about what happened, didn't want to know, and when W would start talking about what they did, I changed the subject. As the day went on, I could tell she was getting really sad, and annoyed, like something was bothering her. But I was just there, not asking questions, just there.

The next day (Mon), I could tell something was really bothering her. She finally broke down, and asked "So how come you never called?". I was like, uhh, because I really didn't want to call you while you were off with OM. She replied with "Well, if you wanted to be with me so bad, you would have called". I told her that was rediculous, and that she wouldn't call me under the same circumstances.

She then asked why I wasn't asking questions about what they did. I was floored. I told her, I don't care what they did, and don't want to know. I said I did not approve of the circus show that just happened, and would probably regret what I just allowed to happen for the rest of my life. I would NEVER do that again. She also said she was planning on trying to work on our M when she got home, but since I didn't seem to care, she changed her mind (umm yeah).

We argued a little, then she said "This probably won't work out". I was like, fine, if that's what you want, I cannot stop you, but you know I want to work on out marriage. She replied with, "Well, right now, I don't, and OM makes me happy". I was like, well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I will be ok through all of this.

Am I doing ok so far? Around 5pm, I said I wanted to get out of the house, so I left for 3-4 hours. She called my cell about 35 times. I never answered, until on the way home. She was wondering where I was. I replied "Does it matter at this point?". She said she was calling because the kids were wanting to know if I was coming home... She got kinda mad, and we talked a little more small talk, then hung up.

When I got home, she wanted to talk about R, and I resisted. She started crying, and said something like when she was up there, OM wanted to back out because he didn't want her to lose her kids, or hurt anyone over this, then she said something like "I hope you are happy". We argued a lot more, got some stuff off our chests, and finally calmed down. By the end of the night, it was established that she wanted a D, and wanted OM to come down to meet kids (one of his requirements before he EVER moved down for good).

I'm thinking this is all going to crash down on her, and I am wondering what I shoudld do till then. I very much doubt that OM will be able to quit his job, and find another in the next 6 months. A lot can happen in that time, and I wonder what I should do. At this point, we get along fine, and I am just acting like a friend. We laughed this morning as we looked at some funny videos, and even talked about going to the shooting range this weekend to blow off some steam.

I think it's a good idea to be friends, but I will NO LONGER be her girlfriend. I've told her I didn't want her talking to OM in *our* house. She said ok. I think she will though, otherwise they won't be able to figure out what to do next...

Anyhow, just thought I'd give an update.

I want to preface what I'm about to say to you with this, because I'm worried about coming off as harsh, and that's not my intention.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I really do sympathize with your situation. And I wouldn't waste any of my time just to say things that are deliberately negative.

But I think maybe the next thing you should do....is to decide if you want to use the MarriageBuilders program to try and save your marriage or not.

I'm not one for throwing out the 2x4's, and I appreciate that you've got ALOT of information coming at you and that you're probably shell-shocked by your circumstances, but in all honest candor...I can't see how you're working within the program. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You're love-busting all over the place. You haven't set any boundaries. Your wife is talking about having her OM interview your child to see if she's acceptable to him or not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Using the MB method will not guarantee you success at saving the marriage. Nothing will. But still...there's ALOT that you can do to improve the odds on keeping your family intact. You've got to make a FIRM decision to do it though.

Have you read the Basic Concepts section? Do you have a full understanding of Plan A and Plan B? Have you obtained a copy of SAA? Have you read the threads that were recommended to you? Have you accomplished anything on Orchid's list that she posted to you?

This is an overwhelming amount of work, I know. And you've got all this emotional stuff going on right now on top of it. You're confused on what to do next, and I can't blame you a bit. I'd be a basket-case if I were you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

But unfortunately...these are the cards you've been dealt. All you can do is play them out with as much skill as possible. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is what will bring you the necessary "skill".

Please read Mortarman's latest post to Good_Father on the link I gave you above. I think that whole thread is valuable in your situation anyway, but I think you need to hear what he has to say about "leading" your family.

Thank you for responding, I really appreciate it.


Can you tell me where I love busted? Also, what do you suggest I do about him meeting my kids? I actually told her that is NOT happening, and I will do what I can to stop that. Obviously, she got mad, and said I was ruining her chance for happiness, etc. She also said I cannot do anything about it. But what can I really do? I could possibly get a restraining order against him. Do you have any other suggestions?


Yes, read all the articles, and threads. I'm slowing learning how to properly implement plan A/B. I have a cheat sheet of do's/don'ts. I have not purchased any books however. Just found this site, and still kinda getting into things. I know I need to act fast though. Juggling work and all this doesn't help though.

Maybe I'm reading it all wrong, so if I've misunderstood please excuse me....but your interactions with your wife sounded a bit passive/aggressive to me. And I don't know about you...but I find it highly challenging to "argue" without love-busting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

My understanding of Plan A is that you're showing your WS that you really are willing and capable of being a good mate to them. You're proving to them that the problems within the relationship have solutions, and that ENs which may have been unmet previously can and will be met in the future. You're showing your mate as often as possible that YOU are the preferable alternative to wreck and ruin.

But Plan A is also about accountability. You're defining the boundaries of acceptable behavior. You're not a doormat. You're just a guy who loves his family doing what he needs to do.

With that in mind, I think you should tell your wife that she does NOT have your permission to expose your daughter to the sordidness of her affair, much as you have already done. And I think you should see an attorney at your earliest opportunity so that you have consequences readily available should your wife go against your wishes and do it anyway.

I can't tell you what to do, I can only tell you what I would do. And I'd file for full custody of my child if my spouse exposed them to this sort of adult ugliness.

Ok, lovebusting. I'm going to try and go over this, and would very much appreciate if someone would chime in and correct me. At this point and time, I'm still kinda a blubbering idiot, and still getting my sanity back.

1. Selfish Demands - Don't think I broke this one.
2. Disrespectful Judgments - Don't think I broke this one.
3. Angry Outbursts - Did break this one. Still getter better at this.
4. Annoying Habits - Don't think I've been breaking this one lately.
5. Independent Behavior - I guess taking off making her wonder where I was could have broken this one, but I also read in other threads (including this one), that I need to make her wonder.
6. Dishonesty - I guess I broke this one when I used a keylogger.

As far as growing a backbone, I'm trying very hard to do this. I've set my boundries, and W knows them. Whether she respects them, well, that's up to her. But she definitely knows that:

1. I do NOT approve of her going up there.
2. I do NOT approve of OM being around my kids, and I will protect my family. Her response is that I'm screwing her over, but someday she will realize the is screwing herself. I am just protecting my family.
3. I do NOT approve of W talking to OM using *our* home, or internet connection. She says she will respect this. But I know not to believe anything I hear. The point is though, she knows I have asked her not to (I did not tell her though).
4. She knows I want to work on the marriage. She also knows (at least I told her), that I will be ok if she is no longer around. I love her dearly, but my life won't end if she continues this A, and never comes back.
5. I remain her friend, because I still try to meet her emotional needs when she lets me. This part I am still learning how to do.

Again, thank you all so much for the comments. I already really do appreciate all the help I've already received.

You are right. I might have been a bit passive/aggressive. But I read that if I don't know what to say, then don't say anything. Don't get me wrong, we interacted all the way home. Made jokes, she laughed etc. I just simply refrained from asking her what they did. Whis is what she wanted me to ask. Do you think it would have been a good idea to ask what they did? I simply didn't want to remind her of OM.

We also argued. This one was tough. I tried to leave the room before I said stupid things, but she followed me in the living room, accusing me of "running away", like I always do when she is trying to talk to me. Grr! This women is a tough cookie. But I love her, so I will keep trying. Things are going pretty good now, so my first goal, is no more arguments. No more doormat. Protect my kids/family/self. Deposit love into her love bank. Be a kind and gentle person.

As it stands now, she wants a divorce, but doesn't talk about it much. As far as I know, she's waiting till everything is figured out betweem her and OM, or maybe she still doesn't really know. I'm just taking each day one at a time from now on, and going to work on no more love busting, and working on myself, because I know I will be ok, no matter what.

I'll be honest....I think you stepped in a HUGE cowpat when you gave your wife permission to spend the weekend with another man. If I were you, the first thing I'd do is call the Harley's and see what can be done about that.


To not ask is kind of like ignoring the big white elephant in the room, right? If you want to know what she's got to say, then I think it's only honest to put that up on the table.

And I don't think that 'normalizing' her behavior with small-talk or jokes is going to ultimately address the problem.

Like I said earlier, I believe it was a mistake to give your permission for her to meet the OM. Having done it though, all you can do now is to admit that you were wrong to do so. If you have an idea of what Marriage ought to look like in your mind's eye, and if you've gone against what you think it should be, you've allowed your personal value-system to be compromised.

And when you compromise on what you truly believe in, I think it's important to share that admission.

I believe if it were me, I'd start with apologizing for my lapse in judgement. It's understandable, but still....it wasn't representative of who you are and what you're all about, right?

Then, I'd outline what it is that I do believe. For example, if you believe that married people should be faithful...share that thought with your wife. If you've got a beautiful vision of what you want your marital relationship to be, what you want your family life to be, then by all means...paint her a picture.

I know you're concerned about meeting ENs, but unless you're prepared to meet your wife's "need" to cheat, this is where you have to set some boundaries. You only meet ENs that don't compromise your family.

With boundaries come consequences. Action requires reaction. That's why you have to prepare ahead of time specifically what you're going to do when your boundaries are broken.

Like I told you, I can't tell you what to do...only what I would do if I were you.

Having made the mistake of being her "girlfriend", I would apologize and acknowledge my error. I'd share a verbal "picture" with her of my dream for the marriage and family. I'd give her my boundaries.

She's free to choose at that point. If she wants to leave, you can't stop her...but you don't have to help her either. And she's not free to take what she wants until it's settled by the court. IOW, your children stay in the marital home as well as the assets.

In the meantime....if it were me, I'd call the Harley's and I'd DEFINATELY see a lawyer.

I'm going to try and recall exactly how the "Him meeting the kids" conflict went:

W: Well, he said he needs to meet the kids before he would ever move down here.
ME: Well, you know I'm not ok with that. I will do what I need to to to not allow that, as any man/women would do in this situation.
W: You are just trying to ruin my life. How could you dare take my kids away!
ME: I'm not taking your kids away, I'm protecting my family from someone who obviously doesn't have any family values (talking about OM).
ME: If OM want to see my children, we need to let the courts settle that.
W: Fine, then I'll file for D as soon as possible, so it's legal for him to see my children.
ME: You know how I feel about D, I want to work on this M.
W: Yeah right, wanting to take my kids really proves that.

This is my life right now. Total ******. My W is in some serious fog, and this is not who she was even 1 month ago.

jl,

You have to be a first class fool. I am sorry how she is treating you just incenses me, and how you respond makes me want to wring you neck.
You said you didn't do any LB's. In a way you are right, but in another way you are feeding her negative image of you. She is playing you sooo bad and you are going to lose it all. It really is ashame but in your endeavor you are going to lose your children, your marriage, you manhood, your money, your house...everything. You are sooooo afraid of losing her, you are willing to "give" her away. Does that make sense? I does not to me.

Permit me to excerpt a few quotes and I think you will see. Let's start with your last post


Your response to filing for the D threat so you will allow OM near the kids is "You know how I feel about the D, I want to work on the M." Hello, this fight is about OM seeing your kids NOT YOUR STUPID MARRIAGE. She just baited and switched on you, because she KNOWS you will throw the kids under the bus rather than have her file. You just PAID for her to go have sex with OM rather than file for divorce, or stand your ground. WHAT IS IT THAT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU? Once you figure that out, rank the order. I will tell you that your children should be #1 through #10 in this. And her behavior shows that she does NOT care about them. Your responses show you are dumb enough to give them away. Straighten up jl, get your priorities right, and right now your W, and the marriage is down the line from your children. In case you have not figured out men and women that don't protect their kids irriatate me a bit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Now let's go back to your update.

You said
So let's see you don't want to know anything about what happened. Great when she hauls you to court you will be defenseless. Further, you don't know how to respond to her do you?


Great so far except that perhaps you could have been more insightful with your rebutal "she wouldn't call me under the same circumstances" is lame. You did not call her because you did not WANT to right? Tell her that. End of story. If you really want to do it explain to her, that you have little respect for her behavior and found no reason to be bothered with someone acting as she was doing.

[quote[She then asked why I wasn't asking questions about what they did. I was floored. I told her, I don't care what they did, and don't want to know. I said I did not approve of the circus show that just happened, and would probably regret what I just allowed to happen for the rest of my life. I would NEVER do that again. She also said she was planning on trying to work on our M when she got home, but since I didn't seem to care, she changed her mind (umm yeah)[/quote]

Ok, you did well here, however you should have challenged the bold faced lie about working on the marriage. You know it was a lie, smile, kindly express to her, that you know she is lying and trying to manipulate you and then leave. If she challenges this statement, simply smile and remind her of some of her other lies about OM. Then leave. NO LB's, just a smile, the truth and out. Don't back down and do the "whatever" stuff. You don't know it but she is looking to see if you have ANY backbone. If she doesn't detect any, she is going to run right over you and you will end up as I described earlier. What you don't seem to understand is that plan A is about many things, but don't defending your boundaries is NOT one of them, not being truthful about your feelings about her behavior is another. Don't LB, but be firm, be focussed, and be on target. She is giving you many targets as she tries to manipulate you and clearly she is very very successful with tactics I learned to deal with before I hit middle school. Yup, I had sisters. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Nice words, but clearly they had no impact. Do you know why? Because everytime she rolls out divorce, you fold. She rolls it out when she is talking about the kids, any point she wants to win, she rolls out the divorce and you fold and let her run over your boundaries. She knows you are soo afraid of losing her and the divorce that you will fold. This has to change jl.


Do you not see that she wants her cake and eat it tooo. Don't you see that if you stay on your hind legs she will yell, she will threaten, she will make lots of noise, but she will also pay attention. It will not cure what ails this marriage but you will start to get your message across.


Yeah right, she tried the kids card. Then she tried the crying card, then she went back to old reliable the "D" card, with a dash of OM thrown in just to piss you off. What do you think she is trying to accomplish here jl? Think about this. Collect your data, take care of the kids, see an attorney to learn what strategies are available to you, and get yourself informed and ready.

You would take her to a place where she could have a loaded gun???? Are you nuts? So now we are going after the cake again. She is easing off just a bit, you are happy, life is good, and meanwhile OM is still in her life. She has it down pretty well. What you are coming up on my friend is PLAN B. Read up on it and start to prepare, and that is also why you need to talk to a lawyer. If you leave the house it might be abandonment. Your state my have legal separation, that will protect you, it may allow you to move her out, especially if she visits him again, you might go for temporary custody. You need your options and avenues laid out, but get ready for PLAN B to wait out the end of the A IF you think it will end, most do.


Tape the calls. Go to radio shack and get a recorder to tape their calls. Get a key logger and track where she goes on the computer and what she says. You need the info. Oh! and about being friends, well why don't you settle for "friendly", she is NOT your friend, and if you think so you are going to get knifed in the back. Until OM is gone she will not be your friend.

Just a final comment. You also said
Is she a lawyer? I don't think so, go see one this week, and find out what your options are for keeping OM out of your house and away from your children. She is using the anger card again to get what she wants, and then it is all about YOU ruining her happiness. Oh! man. I guess your children's happiness is of no moment, and neither is yours.

Finally find out where OM works, if he is married, and be ready to disclose this affair at his work. Get the phone and computer evidence and you can legally do this, again, speak with your lawyer.

jl, all is not lost. Your W is playing you, but the reason she is is because she is NOT SURE about you and what you stand for. If she becomes SURE she can get away with anything then you are going to get your nose rubbed in it big time. If she becomes SURE she might not like your response, you will see her attitude change. You forget it is your job to be happy in the marriage, but the marriage is also her responsibility, and I wonder if her family will appreciate her destroying it.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Again, thanks for the response. Read it, a lot to absorb. In the mean time, let me clue you all in as to what's been happening.

Yesterday went much better. Got into work late, and went straight to lunch with the guys. W called, and wondered why it was taking to long to get to work (she can see me idle on instant messenger). She then says she was worried about me. Anyhow, we hung up, and when I got back to my desk, W asked me if I was mad at her. Heh, even though I am mad, hurt, whatever, I didn't know how to respond. I simply said, "Would there be a reason for me to be mad?". And W replied, "Well, you've been giving one line responses to what I say". And I'm like, oh well I don't mean anything by it, just here at work. I don't really know what she was tlaking about one line resonses, because we hadn't even talked much that day yet.

Anyhow, as the day goes on, she msg's me and asks if we can go shopping together that day, and maybe grab a bite to eat. I said that sounds fine. And we did. We went out that night, had a great time with the kids, and sat close to each other, and it felt good. No arguments the entire day. Some small talk about OM for a few minutes at some point, but I didn't get mad, or try to change the subject this time, just let him fizzle out, and talk us, and have fun again.

I have a feeling, she is wondering if I'm still there, even though she probably wants to be with OM. I have no idea why, but I'm being cautious.

I am still in the mode of standing by my boundries. At this point, she hasn't crossed any in a few days, and I hope I'm prepared when she does. Like for example, next time we have conversation about OM meeting my kids. Some legal advice told me this would be very bad for her. I would never want to hurt her, but I need to protect my kids. I also need to be prepared for the next time W talks D, or talks about OM moving down etc. None of that has been happening though lately.

For now, just keeping cool, being me, not being a doormat, but meeting her EN's when she lets me. Trying to deposit as many love units as possible.

Also, the A has been exposed to her parents, and the people we play the game with. It doesn't seem to have helped much, but it hasn't hurt yet either.

One thing. Is it smart to plan A (meet EN's that W will let me, etc), while OM is still in the picture? From what I've read, this sounds like the right thing to do. Then plan B if this goes on too long?

jl,

Yes, plan A with OM in the picture. What has been shown to be very ineffective is MC while the A is going on. The WS just lies and/or defends and notthing gets accomplished.

Plan A is about setting boundaries, protecting your children, showing that there is HOPE for the marriage, and planting seeds which may not show up until you are deep into Plan B. I would strongly urge you again to go see a lawyer, and figure what can and cannot be done about encouraging her to leave the house, or in the worst case you leaving the house during plan B. IN some states it is a legal separation in others it is something else. You need to really really know what the laws are and how judges see things.

The goal here is to win. Hopefully win your marriage back, but failing that to win what is fair to you. You will win if you learn and grow. She is trying to figure out how to continue to manipulate you. You know her tools set now: crying, anger, threats, misstating your comments, and let's not forget lying. Know those tools well, and learn how to blunt them.

God Bless,

JL

Updates:

This last weekend was rough, but we got through it. I found out Friday that W was still talking to OM, and I confronted W. Big mistrake I know. I'm still figuring out how to deal with this kind of infomation. I told W I would no longer tolerate her talking to him under our roof. And I reminded W that OM will not see our kids while we were married. Some major LB's going on here, and I know that. LIke I said, still learning how to deal with this kind of info.

Needless to say, W got kinda mad, so I left to cool off. W came to look for me, because she wanted the car I was in (hmm). I was on the phone at work, she was wondering who I was talking to, and demanded I giver her the phone. I think W was jealous that I might be talking to a girl (I was talking to my best friend). Anyhow, long story short, I went home because W wanted to talk.

Things took kind of a turn. W said while I was gone, she told OM to no longer talk to her, because he was screwing up her life, because I was going to take the kids if she keeps talking to him. Then W says something like "This could never work out between us because you've been bashing me around your friends". Then some things were said, then she said something like "One thing makes me want to go with OM, another makes me want to be alone, and then I kinda think I want to work on us.". I was really excited to hear that last part, but I didn't show any emotions. I just reminded her how I felt, that I am still into working on the M.

Well, since that day, we have been getting along very good. Went shopping, bought clothes, had dinner, kinda got close here and there. And for a few days or so, she wore her wedding ring (she hasn't been wearing it). But she removed it again, I dunno what that means though. I think W is still seriously confused, and I kinda feel bad for her, but sad, hurt, and mad all at the same time.

There has been periods where W wants to be close to me, then she pulls away. Also, one thing that she has said recently in the last few days is, "Why should I stay for the next few months to work on things?". I didn't know quite how to respond, so I said something like, "You don't have to, but I would love to show you why in the next few months".

Anyhow, still taking one day at a time. LB's are becoming fewer and fewer as I learn how to react to different situations. Also, I'm finally getting to the point, where I think I would be ok if W left. Maybe I'm on some sort of high, but I'm not as panicy at the thought of W not being there. I love her dearly, and would do anything to keep this M, but I also know that there is only so much I can do, and if W decides to really leave, I need to be prepared for that.

Again, thanks for all the feedback.

Also, quick question. How should I react when I find out W is still in contact with OM? Plan A harder? Confront? Kinda confused on that issue...

It sounds to me like you are doing fine. It is not an LB to ask your wife not to talk to the OM from your home. Women want a man they can respect, not someone they can run over.

IF contact remains and you start to feel yourself losing love for her, then it is time for plan B. Read up on it and prepare, it may well take plan B to get through to her.

God Bless,

JL

JL, you know as well as I do that she WILL continue contacting the OM. She might vary the frequency or try to do it under the radar, but she has NOT committed to the marriage or to ending the affair.

So your advice for jlost to prepare to go to "Plan B" is right on target. The only problem I see with that is that he has been doing a rather poor "Plan A" up to this point (although he's been getting better), so as hard as it is emotionally to continue in Plan A for a while, that is what I would suggest so that his wife gets a chance to see the changes he has made in himself that will be the "new him" regardless of whether or not she remains his wife.


jlost, your wife is attempting to "negotiate" Fence Sitting with you. She KNOWS how weak you are and afraid to lose HER, so she uses that fear against you. Let's get one thing straight right now, she is in the marriage for HER OWN PURPOSES, not for you and not for love. She has made it perfectly clear, that AT THIS POINT in her life and her "thinking," the ONLY reason she is still with you is HER fear of losing the children, not because she loves you. She made it quite clear that everything revolves around HER feelings and HER wants, not yours. Do I need to go back and quote the things she has said to you, especially concerning her "happiness" and the OM?

Somewhere along the line of growning up, you confused "love" with surrendering your cojones. It's time you "got them back" and took on the role of Husband and Father. Your wife is obviously very "strong willed" and likes to "wear the pants" in your marriage. And you've allowed it. That's NOT what God intended in a marriage and just like anything that is "out of kilter," problems WILL enter such a marriage. It is time you prepare yourself to take a stand. I say that because it is highly likely that you are going to have to enforce CONSEQUENCES of a Boundary violation.

You asked: "How should I react when I find out W is still in contact with OM? Plan A harder? Confront? Kinda confused on that issue...

Let's "set the record straight," okay? Other than God, there is NO room for ANY 3rd person in a marriage. That's not too confusing, is it?

If one of you Boundaries is "NO CONTACT" with the enemy of your marriage who is trying to destroy your marriage and harm not only you but your children as well, WHAT is your predetermined consequences IF she violates that Boundary?

Has she committed to the marriage, to joint Marital Counseling, to writing a "No Contact" letter, etc.?

It does not appear that she has agreed to any of that. And DO NOT take her "word" for having told the OM to not contact her. She might have, but that's NOT commitment talking, just her evaluation of how to "manipulate" you and get to not watch what she IS doing.

So, the first step is that you have to strengthen your backbone. IT IS GOING TO HURT. There is no getting around that, but it a necessary component of getting the cancer out of your 'marital body.' You must accept that "no pain, no gain" is real in this reality of Adultery and Recovery of a marriage that has been attacked from without and from within. YOU have to STAND. YOU, as unfair as it is, as it seems, as it feels from time to time, MUST take the lead and set the limits to what YOU will allow and accept from ANYONE who would be your wife.

So, if there is contact, what WILL you do? That is why JL was telling you to prepare for Plan B. Contact WILL happen. I KNOW. I've been there, most of us Betrayed Spouses have been there. The WS will tell you anything to "get you off the scent," but the ADDICTIVE power of the adulterous affair is strong and the pull to "get another fix of 'good vibrations'" will overpower her momentary choice to want No Contact.

Therefore, you need to understand that you are in a KNIFE FIGHT with the OM right now. It is ugly, it is up close and personal, it cuts, it hurts, it's brutal, and there is no fighting with one hand tied behind your back. YOUR children, to say nothing of your marriage are at stake.

So let me ask you question to ponder. Are you willing to "Stand your ground in defending her" even from herself?

Your marital vows, your role as a husband, your love (assuming it's real and not just 'something you say to get what you want') are what YOU stand on. The airliners have been hijacked and flown into the building that houses you, your children, and your marriage. How WOULD someone else respond to that terrorist attack and how would you think YOU should respond? Can you "negotiate" with terrorists who "think" completely differently than you and think they are "entitled" to something that is YOURS simply because they "want it?"

"What God has joined together, let NOT man separate." The operative word for YOU is "let." You have been "letting" this happen. It's time to stop "letting" it happen and "take control of your marriage" as the spiritual head and leader of your marriage.

Remember, too, that I did NOT say that this was going to be "easy." It will entail some of the toughest things you have have had to endure or do. But it IS necessary unless you want to surrender without a fight.

God bless.

Ok, so I need some advice. Things have been going good for the most part. W says feel free to tap her machine, she is no longer talking to OM, etc. W still is confused as to what to do still. She says she keeps going back and forth, whether she should stay or leave...

So here is the deal though. We have been getting along. We went to lunch yesterday before I went to work, and W said she enjoyed things like that. Did stuff last weekend, had fun, and plan on doing more stuff this weekend together.

But this morning, things took a slight turn for the worse. I informed W that I would be home late, because I was going to go out with the guys, because this was one of the guys last day at work. W didn't seem real happy about this. I could tell it made her mad, but I didn't press on the subject.

Long story short, she eventually called me at lunch today, and said "It's funny how you want to work on this marriage, yet you had the perfect oppurtunity to ask me to go with you, and you didn't ask. That is sad.". Well, what do I do in this situtation? I then said, you are free to come, but she said she shouldn't have to "beg". So this really ticks me off. So I'm supposed to be working my [censored] off to get her back, yet she cheated on me? I want to tell her, "Look, you cheated on me, and you still haven't commited to working on the marriage. I don't know what I should or shouldn't do at this point. You know I love you, but I don't want to push the subject until you are commited to work on the marriage." Or does anyone have any better ideas? Should I have invited her in the first place? I figured it would be good to make her wonder what I'm doing, and not always have a leash on me. But once again, it's backfired on me. Or maybe it's working, and this is the reasponse I should be looking for? It means she still cares what I'm doing? I'm really confused.

Well, I may have screwed up, I may not have. As always, most of the time W and I have been getting along really well. Helping her with baths, taking photos over the weekend, doing fun things together.

Then something crappy will happen. Well, this time I found out she was lieing again. Not about talking to OM, but she lied about something and I found out. Well, long story short, she throws out the D card again, and I fired back, saying "Fine, I'll file first, I'm sick of you threatening me with filing".

She was kinda taken back, and said, "So you are going to give up like that huh?". I said "Well, I'm sick of the lies. I need to hear the truth from now on.". So she started IM'ing me, and I just said to her I didn't want to talk about it right now. She called my desk, and said she WANTED to talk about it. Well she starts telling me how could I do this when we've been getting along to well, etc. She said she's always loved me, and that e've been kinda dating recently, and its been fun, but I ruined it by finding out she lied, and bringing it up.

So now she said she is going to move out, but doesn't know where she will get the money. Well, going by her actions, she seemed pretty scared that I fired the D talk back. First time I've done that. Was that a good idea? Or did I scew up? I will tell you though, it was nice to see that emotional response she gave, like she wasn't prepared to hear me say that.

What would you suggest now? We had plans this weekend, and now that is ruined. Should I follow through with the D? Even though I don't want it? I think something needs to shock her system, and nothing at this point is working, because neither of us have a place to go, nor the money to separate. Or should I just not talk about it anymore, and let her file if she wants, and kida just let her deal and think about what she would be doing?

It seems like as each week that goes by, we usually have a setback, but when we are happy, we are more happy than the last week. So we are slowly moving forward, W just hasn't commited to the M. She says she could leave at any point, but her actions don't say that. I think she needs to hit rock bottom, but being in the comfy house won't allow that... Any suggestions? I know I probably need to start plan B, but it's hard to separate right now. I wish I could plan B with W still in the house...

Ok, W has somewhat commited to all of this. She has not said "I am commited to the marriage", but she said she will try and work things out. She is being more affectionate to me. She also said she is ok with joint counseling (even using the Harley's), and she is ok with sending a NC letter.

As far as I can tell, she is not contecting OM. The only form of contact was IM, and she agreed to block OM on IM. BUT... I have no proof at this point. I am going by her word.

Now, HERE IS WHERE I NEED HELP! Please, someone respond, and give me some advice on the next step. W is saying she wants to move out, or have me move out, to take things slower. So we can date, and start over. She said the last time we got back together, we took it too fast.

Umm, this kinda seems like a load of BS to me, but I'm pretty jaded at this point. Everytime she has wanted to get some space, it has been to spend more time with OM. So... Should I just believe her, and help her move out? Should I avoid at all cost moving out myself? Or should I just avoid the whole thing? She has said things like this before, and she was just blowing hot air. Moving out would be very difficult for either one of us financially, as I am the only bread winner in the family, and mortage is expensive as it is...

Should I use this chance to plan B? Or should I convince her that both of us staying under one roof is the best way to reconcile, and continue with plan A? She has said she notices lots of changes in me, for the good. She said she is scared if she stays in the house, we will go back to "normal", which she does not want. She likes the excitement, and fun things we've been doing.