Have yall taken the emotional needs questionaires on this website? Are you reading the marriage building material here, 19? Do you know how to make her happy?

ML - Thanks. By "program", I assume you mean MB program (meeting EN's etc.)?

I don't really think our marriage was good before the EA. From my perspective, it was OK - not great, but OK. From W's perspective, I now know it was terrible (maybe that is fog partially, but probably true to a certain extent too).

I think it could be great too. The real problem is we both have concerns now - I am pissed about the EA, the lies etc. and wonder if it's really over this time etc. She wonders whether I am going to revert back to acting like I did before EA.

W keeps saying too that while she can forgive me, she may never be able to get over it. I'm sick of hearing that and that's one reason I add in: "OK, whatever" or "I may not be able to either" I refuse to let her have the upper hand in that regard - that what's meant by "tough love" above - I'm not going to grovel for anything (don't want to be a wimpy guy or have someone tell me I'm a wimpy guy, now,
do I? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I don't think either one of us plans to do anything soon - I think we defintely plan to work on it for at least a year.

We may be confused, but I think we also posture a lot - I know I do.

We have all the books and have read a lot from this site. We printed the questionaires a couple of months ago but never completed them.

We need to do those.

I do think I know how to make her happy to some extent - that is by not acting like I have for the past 15 years. I have been doing pretty well at that for about 3 mos. now. I guess I need to determine what her other top EN's are and try to meet them.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> okok, I hear ya! I just started reading the book Fall in Love, Stay in Love and am getting quite a bit out of this book. It goes deeper than His Needs, Her Needs how emotional needs faciliate the feeling of love. If I hadn't experienced it myself, I would NEVER believe it, though. Because this has happened in my marriage just from the little I learned around here about meeting needs. And my marriage was not good at all before my H's affair. So hang in there, 19, there really is hope.

ML - if you think I'm being wimpy again, feel free to tell me - I know you would anyway. Those comments defintely influenced me to tell OMW - and I think that was a good thing to do and I'll tell you again how much I appreciate it.

I have that book and have read parts of it - I'll get back on it - I know there is hope - I am just so *&^%$#@ pissed at her that I need to try to keep in mind what I really want long term.

thanks.

Hi 19. I read over your thread every so often to see how you are doing. I'm always wishing you well. I see you are doing good with those responses and hanging tough. Keep up the good work. Seems WW is also talking to you about how she feels. Kind of helps you still where she is mentally, if she may still be inthe fog. I was wondering about this comment that I read above:


I was wondering is that b/c of how W is responding or do you just feel discouraged about trying to stay in the M?


Is this an article? If so, where do you find it?

19, just for the record, I don't believe you are a wimp. A wimp would not have taken control of the situation as you have. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LLG - Thanks.

"Tough Love" is a Dobson book. It's been awhile, but the basic idea is you don't become a doormat - you don't beg, grovel, cling etc. You stay strong and hold your ground.



Both actually. Probably the former more than the latter.

Deep down, I want to stay in the M, but I am somewhat discouraged since I have recently discoverd that I have been lied to for another 2 months - there has been contact over the past 2 mos.

W's response has not been that bad (except for lies and contact) but she has pissed me off too many times with her comments like "I don't want to stay married if it doesn't change". For the first few weeks after dday, I responded with "we really need to work on this ...." - in other words, close to grovelling - not quite, but close.

At about 2.5 weeks after dday, and hearing that crap a lot, I got made and changed my response. So, I basically have responded by telling her "I feel the same way, if it doesn't change, I don't want it either...". That definitely got her attention. Not enough to stop contact, however.

This past weekend (when I told her I told OMW and I found out about the contact) I told her I wasn't sure about M at all and I'd let her know when I decided. Maybe not the best thing to say, but I said it (I had also, admittedly, had a few by the time I said that).

Thanks.

ML - I know you don't. I am really not a wimp, but I may have acted "wimpily" sometimes. It's hard to know what to do about some of this stuff and I tend to over-analyze anyway.

I hope you are right about my having taken control of the situation - I am not so sure at this point. I am defintely in more control, but I don't know about total control yet.

THsi was honset. Sounds like it got her attention.


Lol, had a little too much to drink, uh?. It sounds like you were somewhat honest. But you left off the part about how you do want the M but her comments are difficult, discouraging to hear.

Thanks for the Dobson book, title.

This was the PERFECT response, 19. Because you DON'T want it like it was before. You don't want a marriage where you feel detached and unhappy anymore than she does. You don't WANT a marriage that includes deceit and infidelity. So, I am very impressed with your response because it is meaningful and thoughtful.

Quote:
OK. W is starting whine more about my telling OMW - says "what good did you think that would do?" and "it was crappy for me to go do that..."

Of course it was crappy... she is now facing it and thinking about the consequences... Inside she feels ashamed of her actions... but then she thinks... but if you didn't tell OMW she only had to deal with you... now she lost face, there's more people knowing, and even kids will be affected by it, and she also wanders, how is it going to be from now on... church, school meetings... she can't forget what happened, she is afraid to be faced forever with her mistake.

She's being selfish but also confused I am sure, so at the same times she tries to validade in any way what she had done. I also believe she wants to call OMW to minimize the A, to know how are they doing, what did OM told his W, etc

She's also feeling rejected by OM... She can't believe she betrayed her values, betrayed you and comprimized her marriage and family for an ilusion. It's hard for her to overcome this and to face you now... She might even be realizing that all that blaming on you and your marriage before was not that real... if you are doing plan A you sure are bringing back the good memories and moments of your marriage.



19,

From our entirely different stories and from our very similar feelings I can only say that I am doing much better since I realized I wasn't really doing plan A, with the help of Tracionado and Orchid, in my thread I realized:

I was double acting, and it does not work... I was doing plan A but at the same time I wasn't.

As you might remember about my doubts on "why even try recovery" and letting angry and hate feelings take control, I was so unsure about my feelings for my H, that I become really unsure as to really wish/believe/want recovery, that I desperately needed to rationalize and think and rationalize again about any decision or action I took because (unknowingly) I wanted it to be the right decision to both options, recovery or divorce, and most of all protect myself.
Because deep inside I haven't really decided yet.

What they help me find out was that I can divorce at any time, but most important, is that I have to fully work on plan A, MB principals, and really give my H a chance.

As BS,s we desperately want WS to be in our place, feel the hurt we feel, but maybe we should also try to put ourselves in their place.

We are very hurt and we have to deal with many emotions, we have to face ourselves and accept "that in some way" we are betraying ourselves, accepting our spouses after what they did, sometimes we really feel tempted to just give up, take the easy road.

So I realized I had to TAKE the RISK, and lower my defensive armor. I don't fully trust my H, but I have to give him a chance and believe that I will some day.

In my situation, I never told my husband I was hating him, but he felt it, and couldn't bear looking at him and he started to be away from me because everytime he looked at me he felt guilty and didn't know what to do to easy my pain and worst he felt I was giving up on him.

At some point it was important he felt it even I havent told him, so he started to work harder to reassure me.

I think we both BS and WS, fear the failure of recovery, according to the situations, we fear we will never recover what we had, or that we will end up in the same not so satisfying M we had before after the dust settles down.

It was of course very important that my H admitted and told me that what he had done was wrong and that he was sorry for it. He asked me to help him out and I did.

It's important your wife ADMIT to you that what she had done was wrong.

At the same time show her you are confident you can work together to have a better M. Give her confidence and strength. Show her this is a awake up call to make you strong and have a better marriage. (this definetely made a diference for my husband)
I know it's not easy. it's probably the hard part. She has been telling herself all this time that you are the one at fault in your marriage, she justified her actions blaming you... now it's not easy for her to admit to you, she was wrong and how silly she was. But it sure will be harder if she looks at you and feel the "hate" in you.
Discussing how to deal in the future with OM and OMW, and present her solutions on how to deal with it, will be important for her to believe in the future, you can show her you are interested and considering her feelings thru your solutions, don't present them as solutions to stop them to see each other, but solutions so that both of you wont have to be faced with what happened and in constant reminder.

And just one more question: Have you two discussed the policy or Radical Honesty already?

All this takes time, and we are all different. This is what I have been thru. Maybe some of it can be present in your situation, maybe not, just another perspective.

I feel much better with myself now. I can start to feel some peace. A "storm" is coming, I don't know how this is going to end, for now I take it slowly.

I am sorry I am not such a good writer hope it makes sense.

LLG -

You're probably right, but I really don't feel like saying that right now - know what I mean?

ML - You are right, I don't want a marriage like that - not sure I want a marriage with W at all -

everything is my fault and she has never done anything wrong - know what I mean? I bet it's hard to be so *&^%$#@ perfect....

There are times when I really can't stand her - is that normal? (don't think I ever felt that strongly until this EA BS).

Yes, that is exactly how I felt after I discovered my H's affair. He disgusted me and I didn't want him to touch me. That is because my #1 EN is admiration and an affair is a HUGE lovebuster. This coupled with the fact that my feelings of love are very contingent on my feelings of RESPECT. It took me a long time to feel anything more than revulsion for him. But your feelings can come back if she begins meeting your needs and demonstrates honorable behavior again.

lost-willow - I think you are right about her facing reality now - she realizes someone else knows what she did - someone who has an interest in what she did - and you are right, now she has to deal with it forever -

I don't think I am doing Plan A well enough right now - but I have been, so maybe it is making a differnce



what do mean by "double acting"?

W has said she doesn't believe in radical honesty - says some things are better left unsaid - may need to look into it more.

W will probably never admit what she did to my satisfaction. I just have to get over that part. W never (very rarely) admits she is wrong about anything, so I can't imagine she'll ever admit it in this situtation.

I am glad to hear you are feeling some peace - I think I feel more peace sometimes too, but I am not sure it is real.

ML - That is good to hear from someone who has been there - how long do you think it takes? Don't mean exactly, obviously, but 6 mos.? 2 years? longer?

19, we went through various phases of recovery, but I would say that our marriage was pretty good at the 2 yr mark. It is was OK at the 18 month mark. I would say that is about average, but it is very contingent on the effort that both partners put into the marriage.

The biggest impediment I see in recovery is withholding facts about the affair from the BS. The ones who are honest always recover faster. The ones who withhold really struggle because trust is not restored.

ML - I don't think she is witholding facts, but I do think she is getting madder by the minute about my telling OMW (literally). Looks like her anger about exposure is coming out - it was just delayed.

Just got off the phone with her and she was pissed. Thinks I did it just out of spite. She is on her way to see her IC and I am sure she will get all wound up there.

I keep telling her I did it to end the EA - because our M cannot work if EA is not ended. She says it never was an EA, she had already decided herself to stop calling him and this would have had no influence on that decision. I respond that I think she's wrong about that, if nothing else, OM would probably not talk to you anymore after OMW knew ....

She also keeps on saying that EA was really nothing, they were just talking on the phone and were just friends - blah blah blah - .

This is going to be a great day, I can tell. I have a feeling she is going to suggest separation. IC is hung up on W's anger - anger towards me - now IC will see W as even angrier and she could suggest separation as a way to get over the anger - I think they have talked about it before ...

I have already told W I won't agree to separation.

How long do you think it will take W to get over the anger about my telling OMW?

Today is day 365 for us. 1 year of since D-day and I'd say we are fully recovered. We discuss things openly and have established an intimacy level far superior to anything we ever had before.

Usually the longer the affair the longer the recovery so, ON AVERAGE, yours should NOT take that long assuming you remain willing and she really commits to trying.

As far as "double-acting", I can't speak for the poster above but I'd say she means, acting with empathy for your wife AND at the same time not having empathy for your wife. Your actions and reactions are all mixed up becuase you are angry, sad, desparate, dejected, mad, empathetic, bitter, entitled, hopeful and vindictive ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

You are right, I don't think your Plan A is all there yet, but you are "processing" and moving towards it.

IMO, the basis of all good relationships and marriages is friendship. Through friendship you and your wife can develope intimacy. I've read somewhere that people often choose a marital partner that does the same "intimacy dance" with them. They comfortably move closer and separate in allignment with their own intimacy comfort zone. They crave more when you withdraw and withdraw when you crave more. I strongly perceive some intimacy walls coming from your wife...it's logical really...you are REALLY moving towards her so she steps back and proudly/defiantly remains withdrawn. You want to NOW discuss radical honesty in your marriage and she poo-poos it (did I just say poo-poo, man I need some sleep).

Anyway, what to do. Do some introspection about your own personal intimacy barriers and discuss them with your wife...but discuss with her as your closest friend and confidant. On the reverse side, really try to get to know your wife as deeply and closely as possible. I mean, if your relatioship might end don't you want to get in their and KNOW what's going on in that cute little noggin' of hers? Listen, listen some more, ask questions but DON'T try to "fix" anything/everything or try to educate her yourself. Allow her the safety and comfort to open up to you and SAY ANYTHING...she is your best friend afterall.

Sure right NOW, you will likely get fog babble...SO WHAT, ignore it and keep listening. She's your best friend but you are not her best friend RIGHT NOW. Divert her away from negatives if you can and avoid putting yourself down. Just tend to agree and move on. Remember, her emotional affair was MUCH more about HER, than you...so get in their deep and WATCH as SHE processes things and hopefully moves into and through Recovery. In the end, this is not a battle of "right" and "wrong"...it is a battle for your marriage and family. She may just surprise you in anywhere from 6 months to a year and fully admit she was wrong and feel so grateful to have your marriage back and intact. She will look you in the eyes and THANK YOU for standing by her when she was behaving so aweful.

Recovery is a process, not an event. Time does heal. You can not hurry it. It just takes PATIENCE and PERSEVERANCE (and some thick skin as well).

Good luck, Mr. Wondering