I don't think so at all - we talked a little last night and she said she understands how I feel and doesn't know what she would do if she were me -

said it wasn't about OM per se, but rather how OM made W feel - I believe that -

said she is on my side - meaning she is on "our" side - wants our M to work and wants us to work all this out - also said W doesn't really believe I told OMW out of spite - like W says -

I think it could be useful to talk to her - do you?

Be careful 19,

I had a friend that found out his wife was cheating on him with a married guy at work. He exposed to OMW shortly thereafter. Within a few days or weeks, OM's Wife and my friend slept together as a revenge action. The very next morning my friend's wife approached him to see if they could work it out. They never did nor even tried.

Additionally, on this forum, on a thread I told you to read earlier, Shaden was very aggressively approached by the OM's Wife. She wanted to inflict pain upon Mrs. Shaden by seducing her husband.

Not saying your wife's friend or OM's Wife are even remotely likely to attempt this, but it does happen and you are vulnerable right now. Keep your sensibilities. Your integrity is at stake. Wife's friend may even be trying to trap you if a divorce petition is being considered or is in the works. They could attempt you to be equally involved in an inappropriate relationship. Watch your step all around.

BTW, another reason she may be asking so much about OM's W and you is that she is waiting to see if the other shoe is going to drop. If OM is going to crack and give up their secret. More might of happened and she's simmering with fear and anticipation that their "secret" ONS or PA will be revealled. Hope not. But if it's the truth I do hope it does come out cause then the denials and lies can discontinue and recovery can begin (if you choose).

Mr. Wondering

It sounds like it may be useful then. I don't see any harm in listening to what she says. She may be able to give you useful insight.

I am not sure you should talk to her. I think she want's to pump you for info for your W. I would not trust anyone at this point. Especially a friend of W. I think it's asking for trouble 19.

She is not on anyone's side. Just nosey

I don't think it will hurt anything to hear what she says. She may be able to give him some insight into his W's thinking. If he feels her intentions are not good, he can discern that at the meeting. He already knows not to tell her anything he doesn't want his W to know.

I would like to meet with her - I consider her to be a friend of mine too - but clearly more with W.

I would like her insight into what W is thinking. Of course I am sure she will not tell me anything W doesn't want her to.

You know last night we ate dinner and then left and went to a bar. I rode with friend's H and W rode with friend. We got there first since they had to make a stop and I was actually hoping they wouldn't show up.

I don't even like to look at W right now - pisses me off just to see her - will that stop one day? Is that normal? I am trying real hard to be nice anyway (Plan A) but man it's hard.

Also, I know I need to stop the LB's. That is hard too.

And Mr. W, I will not be having an A - with OMW, W's friend or anyone else. Thanks for the warning.

It's wierd that W's friend wants to meet with you to talk. Why? what could she possibly say that will make you feel better about what W has done.

You said you don't want to keep asking your W about the A and to back off alittle, but, now you are wanting to ask her friends about it. What's the difference, it will get back to W anyway. Seems unproductive to meet with W's friend. You are alway analayzing this to death. What if friend tells you something you don't want to hear. You will end up analyzing that to death to.

I really would like to know what W is thinking. She's not going to tell me.

Beauty is right, I will analyze it to death - that's just me - I analyze everything to death.

I am hoping she will tell me W feels bad about it, guilty etc. W won't tell me that, but she might tell her friend who might tell me. Not sure what good it will do, but I would like to hear what she has to say.

19,

I wish you would change your mind. It just feels like your trying to get more dirt on your W. You already know she feels quilty and bad, how is she going to react if friend tells you something and you try to use it against her or confront her about it. It just seems like a bad idea. But if you already made up your mind then I can't do anything about that. Good luck on finding out what you want to hear.

beauty, this woman is a friend to his wife, not a dirt disher. He has never stated that his intention is "get more dirt," but if she has information then he is ENTITLED to it. The friend wants their marriage to work and believes she has some information that might help that. If she doesn't, then so what? He is not harmed by meeting with her. The meeting is not secret, so its not like he is hiding anything. She may be able to give him some insight into the situation that he wouldn't get from his W. And if not, there is nothing lost. I don't see a problem with it at all.

First, I've done better with LB's today - but it hasn't been easy. The problem is W will make crappy little comments that demand a response from me that would be a LB. So, I have to just keep my mouth shut.

Earlier today, W actually suggested out of the blue that the four of us get together (me, W, OMW and OM). I think she meant like have them over to dinner. I told her I didn't want to do that.

ML, I know you earlier said maybe we should meet - the 4 of us - I don't think you meant have them over though. You don't think that's a good idea, do you?

W doesn't understand NC.

19, yes, I was kidding about that. Did you tell her that she can never contact him EVER AGAIN? Also, she has hurt this woman enough. She should never darken her doorstep again.

Have you explained no contact to her and that this is a boundary that can't be crossed?

I have told her that - more than once. I have a problem saying it in a way that doesn't sound like an ultimatum - I know it's a "boundary" - but it's still an ultimatum sort of and that is clearly an LB to her (whether it really is or not).

I am having a hard time getting this point across to W. I think I may try to talk to OMW and see what she says. I think she agrees with me on NC based on other discussions, but I need to be sure and then tell W that. W consistently says she doesn't see the need for NC, thinks I am overdoing it etc.

How can I get this across without it being an ultimatum? I have a feeling that OM doesn't even want to talk to her again, but I can't really be sure.

How about if I ask her if she agrees with NC. If she doesn't I'll tell her I'm done and go ahead and file. That's how I feel right now anyway. Very sick of W.

Truly, it IS an ultimatum because it is deal breaker. So I would present it as such. [let's remember what a lovebuster is and this is NOT a lovebuster!] Your marriage has NO HOPE in surviving anyway unless she absolutely stops all contact.

I would explain to her that it is profoundly disrespectful of her to suggest any contact and that in order for your marriage to ever recover, all contact must end. This is a boundary of yours that simply cannot be direspected.

19, I am very worried that you are going to try and cut corners with nc and I promise you will live to regret it. You have already seen with your own eyes what happens when you don't adhere to nc; this little affair has dragged on and on all this time because contact has not ended. If you think it will be any different in the future, you have a big surprise coming, because you are facing a years long on-again, off-again affair. Just ask Aphelion or any of the others here who had to endure LONG TERM affairs because of it. This is one point you just cannot afford to cut corners on.

Lovebusters are:

Selfish Demands [in case you think this is it, look again. this says selfish demand.]
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts
Annoying Habits
Independent Behavior
Dishonesty

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

You have to tell her that she can not have any type of contact with OM or his W. It will never end as long as she can get her fix. The fog just thickens.

Please don't be so afraid of what she might do. You need to get this A stopped and the only way to do that is with NC ever. You have to put your foot down with this one. Your W is acting like they can just come over to have dinner no problem. How absurd! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Did you remind her of how much that would hurt you and the OMW? Did she really think they would come? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Ask her to listen to herself. FOG FOG FOG..

She would rather put you in pain to even suggest that, just to see OM again. You have been patient and on plan A long enough..If she won't write a NC letter then she does not want to give up OM. I think you need to go to plan B. She needs to know that you are not a doormat and you won't put up with this crap any longer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I'll add my two cents here.

You have to set your limits and stick to your guns. Honesty is not a love buster. Dishonesty is. There's lots of good advice in this thread. Nobody ever said recovering from an A is easy.

As far as the changes you've made in yourself, as long as WW can still get a "fix" from OM, it won't matter if you can do the housework and meet her ENs standing on your head. Definately use OMW as help to creat NC if you need to. Best wishes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Is this still a possibility?
If so, I say go for it.

If...........

You can stick to your mantra that your ultimate goal is restoration of the marriage AND building a better marriage that you know is likely if given the opportunity.

I.E., demonstrate Plan A to this friend.

Listen with intensity if she offers constructive criticism. Who knows?, you may get valuable insight into your wife's needs.

Don't argue and anytime she criticizes the exposure to OMW you say, "I understand your concern. Taking that step was a necessary one to end the inappropriate relationship."

And one more time - anytime your wife harps about the exposure - "I understand your concern." Nothing more. Don't try to justify the exposure to her - she won't get it.

JMHO

WAT

ML -


I agree it is a dealbreaker and I am not going to cut corners here. The issue is how to present it and reinforce in a way that doesn't sound like an ultimatum - if possible. If not, then I can just give her another ultimatum - as long as I actually plan to go through with it this time.

So, when you say deal breaker, what do you mean? What if she says she doesn't agree with NC? (she has not said this yet, by the way). Do I tell her to leave? (she'd probably refuse). Do I go see a lawyer? My point is that other than taking the final step, I am not sure what I can do. Unless I make her leave, Plan B is not really an option, is it?

As far as LB's, I read some more on it this weekend - my worst, by far (maybe only) is angry outbursts. She will say something that I can't take and I don't. I actually have done pretty well since Friday night - when I was full of AO's.