Certainly, but I will also continue to post advice where I see that I may be of help. I think Habiba needs to discontinue her A, but I am seen not to "tow" the line just because I don't berate and call her names. sorry, not leaving her alone in that

sfjaj, fix YOURSELF and then maybe you can help others....

ML, we agree! you do the same

AAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!! Here's what this looks like to me...

sfjaj, GET OUT OF THIS!!! Cause that IS where you still are...remember, Failure On Getting it? Please just stop...

Mrs. W

mrs. wondering, I will NOT stop offering help to habiba. ignore me if you don't like what I have to say

-emphasis mine

Interesting phrasing...

Mrs. W

actually, most of you are the close-minded ones

Ok, but will you do the same regarding ML?

Mrs. W

If ML ignores me...I won't NOT respond to her. She is the one who has problems with me. Take the matter up with her too

Habiba, my apologies, this thread degenerated due to the bitterness of others...when you can post again, I will be happy to help you and talk with you

No, I will not ignore you. Why would I? I fully intend to challenge every post you make that gives BAD ADVICE to ensure that newcomers do not get misled by you when they come here. You can count on it.

Fix yourself, sfjaj, and then you can fix others.....

ML, oh good. I welcome the challenge of helping WS so that bitter BS such as yourself do not deter them from receiving help. You obviously need help also. IC helps a great deal

Habiba, best advice...talk to me and some others...use your ignore button for ML. She is still not past bitterness on her journey

wow....


sfjaj,
I wonder if you spent as much time absorbing information from this site and trying to understand what it is telling you... and that people are trying to help you, rather than spending that time 'defending' your position of 'play nice', if you would be better off and more intelligent on what needs to be done to fix you?

Here are a few facts.

You can only control you. You can not control anyone else. You will have to accept that or face a life of being defensive and angry.

If you are truly here for help, find those gems that help you. Filter out the 'meanness' of ML's posts and really dig for what she is telling you. I assure you, what she is telling you is backed up and in some cases, verbatim, from the basic concepts.

Also, doesn't it make sense to you( since you are obviously intelligent and able to communicate ) that if you learned to play football last week, that doesn't make you head coach material this week? Do you understand the analogy? I am sure you do. But, do you 'see' the analogy.

I'm a FWS, so include that in your scrutiny of my words. I hope you are able to open your eyes very soon.... because until you do... its lots of painful thrashing against what you will end up seeing as right later anyway.

pat

Pat, you have good points...I agree with much of what you say. I just don't tolerate drivel from those who are clearly hostile. Your post was thoughtful. Thank you

Great post, Pat. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I posted this on another thread and still see the Bitter BS used here.

sfjaj,
I just want you to know that as a bs evertime you say bitter BS it makes me want to vomit. Am I bitter? I'm sure I was - I think ever BS has a right to be bitter and to hear your self rightous replies is just too much. You don't want to listen to what these wonderful people have to offer unless it is what you want to hear. I just don't get it.

After my ex's affair I had no self esteem at all - none - zip - zero - he had tons - why wouldn't he - he got someone else besides his wife to fall in love with him. I still find myself doubting things. I have a wonderful relationship now - but there will always be that little nagging doubt - will he cheat??? And I don't know of may betrayed spouses that doesn't happen too. Do WS have to worry about that?

It just seems like you have other FWW's telling you very helpful things - telling you to heal - then you will see what they are talking about. I don't see many responses to them - but for some reason everything ML says to you is wrong and you have something negative to say.

Please don't call BS bitter - most of them are here to save their marriage and to make better ones. The affair was not their choice - please remember that.

I disagree with the drivel remark.

Let see if I can put this into context.

Do you have children? Maybe a daughter?

Imagine if you will, your daughter... roughly 16 or so, going to school at the local HS. She has been acting odd for the past year or so, but you have thought she must be going through a teenager phase. Gothic clothes, rebellious friends, maybe drugs and you caught her... that kind of stuff.

Today she comes home and for some reason or another, asks to talk to you. You say sure, in your normal upbeat tone... and she commences to tell you that for the last year and a half, she has been raped and sodomized by a teacher at school. She's timid and crying when she tells you and you are simply in shock. You also sense that she is angry at you for not knowing and being there to protect her. This horrible conversation is burned into your mind forever and makes you sick... and will for the rest of your life. You do what any parent would do and kick into chaos mode with calls to police, the school... investigations follow... so on so forth. The teacher goes to jail... the secret is out. The whole town is enraged.

Now... some time later, for your own personal support, you find a forum that discusses this issue, how to deal with it, ways to help yourself, and by doing that, helping others around you. You already have a personal stake in the situation because of the trauma of it...

.. and then a new person shows up on the forum.

This person tells a story of how they are currently a teacher and are have an explicit relationship with a student. They talk of love and such. They confess the lack of reciprocity on the part of the student and it leads you to believe this situation might infact look just like the one you dealt with... right in your own home.

Think you might have a personal flare up over it? Do you think you would even post to this person in the name of helping them? They came to a support site, so they must be looking for support... but after a few weeks there, they are issuing advice to other new posters. How would you handle this situation?

Would you post to this person? Would you try to help them? And if you did, do you think maybe some of your inner-most emotions would come out?

Usually the best way to understand someone is to really put yourself in their shoes and walk a little bit. I have to tell you the truth... I have imagined.... only imagined... what it would be like for a BS and I have difficulty in comprehending the severity of the pain and betrayal. In my imagination, the pain is so horrid and putrid, you're just numb from it. Catatonic. Then the numb wears off and I can't even describe it. I only imagined this. Imagined. that means nothing to really dealing with it.

I guess the entire point I am getting at is understanding. People are not being mean to you. You look like someone they once knew... or maybe still know... and they want you to stop looking that way right quick.

frankly, that a BS even posts to a WS is sometimes a real miracle to me.

Yes Pat that was, indeed, a stellar post...

sfjaj...How is posting advice to others helping YOU with YOUR situation? How is it helping to right YOUR wrongs? How is YOUR marriage improving because of this type of involvement here? How are YOU changing? How is any of this helping YOUR husband with his pain? Pain that YOU caused, based solely on YOUR SELFISH CHOICE to have an A...doesn't matter what the condition of the marriage was before...the A was still YOUR SELFISH CHOICE...Your husband had NO say in that CHOICE, YOU did NOT consult him...What is YOUR payoff in going head to head with others here?

I already know the answers to those questions...the real question is, do YOU?

Mrs. W

Well, this statement is very hostile. Most of your statements have been. Does that mean most of your statements have been drivel?

Seriously, look up on this thread and on others where you have posted. Can you see a pattern here? I havent seen one post admonishing ML, but many asking you to reassess what you are saying and doing.

Dorry said it well. She came here and met with resistence from me, ML and others due to her fogged out state. she originally thought I was insensitive. She knows better now...right Dorry?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We have been here quite awhile helping people. We have had people come on here and say things that are not MB and not helpful to the process. Sometimes because they were fogged out, sometimes because they didnt know any better...and sometimes because they were just disruptive. And EVERY TIME, all of us will defend this web site and defend MB principles for they have worked countless times. We will not allow anyone to enable or to give advice that is counter to what this site is about.

You are of course, free to post here and give advice. ML and others are also free to defend the MB site and its principles when you stray from that.

As Dorry has said (and Mrs. W and others), they have been thru the WS bit and are now well beyond that. The most common statement by FWSs on here is how much of an idiot they now think they were. The fog does that to WSs.

You are free to give advice. But if you enable, or go counter to MB principles, count on ML and many others to post and refute your statements.

I believe the advice given to you on working on you would be wise right now. Maybe sit back and ask yoruself why all of the veterans here have not seen things the way you are saying. Maybe if you can understand why you are standing alone here right now, then maybe you can get to that place where you can be truly helpful and useful.

In His arms.