My wife had an EA with a close family friend, it lasted a few weeks till I found out and would of become more but never did. My wife is commited to working on us because of our 2 kids at least.. She says she E'ly divorced me last year and that she was E dead towards me but that she is not anymore, but now she is hurt and angry towards me over 6 years of neglect... So now she more or less wants me to act like I did before all this so she can have time to work on her... I was clingy and always wanted hugs and be near her but I realized that was for me and not helping her at all..
So I stopped showing her affection and giving her space.. I still do whatever needed around the house but I want to know what you all think I can do that will not push her away by me trying to hard... I brought flowers home for the table for easter so I think flowers again will be too much.. Any other idea's?? I have asked for dinner alone with her last week and she said this week, yesterday she said NO, maybe next week.. so us doing anything together seems out...

Any help will be great.. I thought I posted my entire story on here but I can not find it so I guess I did not hit POST or something...

I have been working on me, reading Romacing your Wife, spending hours on this site and talking to people who have been through the same.. I am comminted to making it work no matter what I have to go through, as long as in the end we am happy..

Nice move to GQII...you had two posters already...I hope they follow you over.

You said you hadn't exposed..."not really." Is that correct?

Have you been reading the Emotional Needs section? There are questionnaires...for now, you could fill one out for you and for her...later, after there is no contact firmly established and she wants to really work on your marriage, she can fill out her own. Knowing her needs (to the best of your ability) will give you the right language to show your love...one she can feel.

I wanted to tell you that the E'ly dead/divorced stuff is standard for spouses in affairs to say. Please read a lot of the posts here and be surprised and relieved to know there's almost a script...though no conspiracy.

Also know, you working on you FOR you is essential. I know you didn't want to be neglectful or disrespectful. I believe you loved and cherished your WW all along...and didn't know a better way. Read all you can here...I keep saying that, but I want to know your thoughts when you do.

Have you heard of pursuer/withdrawer? It is when in a relationship, there is one who wants a lot of attention and recognition, (pursuer) and another who fears being engulfed, smothered by attention and recognition (withdrawer). Pursuer's fear abandonment...they know it and feel it up front. Triggers them, you might say. Withdrawers fear intimacy...being known is like the equivalent of being exposed, and judged defective...hence, feeling taken over, when pursued.

They have a dance...tell me if this sounds familiar...pursuer feels neglected/abandoned...pursues...giving attention, care, consideration, accommodation and pleasing actions...withdrawer feels smothered/engulfed and withdraws, feeling intense attention, failing the other, forced in control of and a bit of eggshells to walk on...pursuer stops pursuing, hurt, rejected, feeling defective and failing...withdraws...withdrawer no longer feels instense anything...nothing...sees pursuer withdrawn, begins to fear, then pursues...they come to the middle a bit, it gets better...until it starts over again.

Want to know the kick to this cycle? Pursuer fears abandonment uppermost, and intimacy underneath; Withdrawer fears intimacy uppermost and abandonment underneath.

Only takes one to break the cycle by learning a new way to live...and NOT choosing to do so through fear.

Wayward Spouses (WS) also say they need space...to continue their A (affair)...know that your real wife, not WW (wayward wife) isn't committed to working on your marriage until she owns all her stuff...her choice to have an EA. As long as it is all your fault, she's still WW.

You have no control over changing your WW back into W. Never did, never will. However, you have your hands full with yourself, changing your beliefs...please begin with the knowledge that you cannot make another person happy, sad, angry, resentful, frustrated, etc. Those are their feelings and they are valid for them. As yours are for you. Emotions come from your beliefs...they are information about what you believe in relation to the reality you experience. They are not caused, controlled or cured by others.

Knowing this will inject respect into yourself and your life. You do not carry your WW's thoughts, feelings and beliefs as well as your own. You only carry your own. Read the Love Busters (whole book available) and get to know what you do to others and to yourself. Free yourself of your past patterns...not just by stopping them, but by knowing why and how you did them.

You can do this.

In your corner...

LA

P.S. I'm relying on others to tell you about the no contact letter, exposure, etc...rely her A is still going on until you have both.

Loving Anways, thanks, that was a great post..
I know the EA is over, the OM is a good friend of mine still and we have all sat around together, me, my wife, him and his wife.. He is 100% comminted to his wife and kids and wants to make that work.. He is also comminted to helping me and my W get through all our crap...
I did order Love Busters last week and have been working on me for 3 weeks now since it happened..

Our realtionship was different then you described, she actually told me I needed to just think of her without being told too and show her that I care and such..I would for a week and stop, no idea why, I am guessing my love tank was empty and she needed me to do something because hers was too, but I tried and got nothing in return so I stopped..If I continued I am sure it would of been better, but I did not.. Last year she told me that if Idid not change I would loose her, I think at that point all we had in common was a TV and 2 kids so I really did not care.. But now I see what there is to loose and what she asked for is what any wife deserves...

I hate to be cynical, but once they had an emotional affair, they cannot ever be friends again. As long as they still are friends, even with you included, there is no way your wife will get back her feelings for you.

I don't know your whole story and can't really give advice without knowing the whole situation. I can only assume that if YOU are willing to have a continued relationship with the OM, then I don't know the whole story. I may not be in a position to give advice, but I would like to know more so can maybe shed some light. I am a FWS and I know what it takes to end an A and what a BS needs to look out for. Please tell me more...

OK, my story...

Been married 8 years, dated 2 before that, have 2 kids, a 3.5YO D and 3 Month old S. OM is pastor at our church, but more a family friend then a pastor to us..
Last year, W said we needed MC or she was going to leave me, I told her OK and she sent me a website but she never called.. I have not had me EN meet in a long time so I was kinda did not care.. She kept telling me to do something for her and to show her I care without being told too.. My biggest need is SF and hers is intimacy which she never got so I never got my SF...
So, her EM were not being meet, and she was talking and IM'ing the OM, who is married with 3 kids.. They got close and realized that there were both in the came boat, neiter spouse was meeting there EM.. Also, my wife is nursing our 3MO so she is up till 1:30AM for the last feeding.. so they started emailing and IMing from when I went to bed till 2 or 3, I started to figure something was up becuase she was always talking to him on IM and would shrink down the IM when I came by.. So I suspected something..
So on a Friday 3 weeks ago I was sure, my wife was actually moving furture away from me and wanted nothing to do with me.. SO Friday I installed Computer tracking software, recorded emails and chats.. So first chat I got I knew something was going on, there were lots of putting me down and some sexual references about things they wanted to do.. That was Friday, Sat I was a wreck but made it through the day, my plan was to wait till Monday and see a lawyer to file whatever I needed to so I could sell the house and try to get custody of my Daughter... Sat night they talked again and it killed me but I was able to fall asleep, Friday I actually had to go to church and listen to the OM on stage and asking me to pray with him, I was really feeling sick then, I made it through church, then there were plans for OM's family to come over to watch Nascar, this was after we all did something Friday and Sat, now they were over Sunday..
Having OM in my house knowing what was going on was really really hard, the things that went through my head... So, OM and family left, wife told me I did not have to wait up with her( her signal that she wanted me to go to bed to talk to OM).. So I came in my office to read there converisions... She told him that she was laying on the couch he was laying on watching TV so she could feel close to him... I decided then that I should just grab my daughter and go, go stay in a hotel.. But I knew if I took her it would be bad when we had our day in court so I did not, I decided to just go to be and make it through the night, with my wife having an online Affair downstairs.... Of course I could not sleep and then I hear something, I look down and the phone says LINE IN USE...NOW they are talking on the phone at 2AM.. I am sooo over it now, I get up and flush the toliet and the Line in use disapears so she heard me and hung up, so I sit there and decide to just leave, pack up a overnight bag and walk out the door.. So then something came over me to just go talk to her.. So I went downstairs and confronted her and asked if she wanted a divorce and hook up with the OM, she said she did not know and needed to talk to him to decide... I told her I was going to fight for my kids, that she was going to have to get a job, put the 3MO in daycare, move into a crack appartment and the OM was going to have to find something to do because after I told the church what was going on, I am sure he was not going to be working there anymore.. She says there plan was to keep a EA for 18 years till all the kids were out of the house and then leave there Spouses, I am pretty sure there was no PA but that I knew it would of happened very soon

So, she says she needs to call him and talk to him, I tell her OK, come up to my computer and the OM sees my IM show up so sends me a message like, hey you up??
I tell him he should answer his phone, that MY WIFE is about to call you.. and exit out of IM.. 2 minutes later the home phone rings and they talk, she tells me she is leaving to talk to him, first thought that goes through my mind, see you I will not be here when you get back, but she says they are just going to talk on the phone... she leaves, comes back in about 1 hour and goes to sleep on the couch.
Next morning, Monday, wife went to the YMCA, OM calls the house, I did not answer, then he calls my cell and I did not answer, then W calls and tells me to talk to him please.. She wants to see him to talk to him but he will not see her till he talks to me... So I call him, he says he has to see me to talk to me, I tell him to come to my office to talk...
I get there and we go into my office, he tells me that he is sooo sorry and that him and his wife does not show him any EN and they started talking and it went to far.. He knew it was wrong but he was dead E'ly for so long and that he longed for someone to talk to and found it in my wife.. He told me that his family was most important and if his wife would keep him, he would not leave( at least till the kids are gone I bet).. So he told me that he would do whatever I wanted, quit his job, move back to Al whatever.. I told him that I wanted to fix my marriage and that my wife was deciding between me and him and he won, he said that did not matter because he was not leaving his W... I have since learned or was told that she did not want to leave me, just needed to figure everything out...

So, they talk and W tells me she needs time to decide what she wants to do but that she will commit 6 months to us before either of us leave... She went away to the beach for 3 days to be alone, with the kids and her mother, so it was me that was alone...
OM has helped me allot, his only goal is to make all 4 of us happy and I believe 100% that anytime he talks to my wife it is Pro me and her... I told them I could not handle them IMing each other so they have not, just talked on email and phone.. I was able to read there emails for a little while and saw they were with him helping her and telling her to work on US.. But wife confronted me about her computer and she changed her password and removed the software so I do not know what they talk about now.. But I talk to the OM 3 times a day now, and as wierd as it sounds, I do not think I would of made it through this sane if it was not for him.. God works in wierd ways sometimes and I am postive that if this would not of happened as it did, we would end up in a D.. I never had the desire to work on US and even MC I do not think I would of really tried, but now I am 100% comminted to us but she still is not there, she still does not want any affection from me or give any to me, she wants it like it was before, no intamcy, no attention nothing, and I want sooo much to just be happy and work on us, but she says she needs time and I told her she could have 6 months....

I did confront the OM the other day and said: I know you are trying to help with my M, but do you have a plan, spoken or unspoken with my wife to at any point in the future to leave your W for mine... He promised on everything he believes that he is comminted to his wife and no one else and I believe him...

so that is where we are at, OM is fixing his M, slowly, mine is in this bad bad limbo that is tearing my heart out every time I tell my wife I love her and get nothing in return, or send her a 1 line email telling her I am thankful she wants to work on us and get nothing in return... I know that if it is something she does not want that it will push her away and I have stopped asking for hugs or kisses, but still things are the same....

WOW- your pastor? I know they are human, too.

Ok, first off No Contact must be established. That is no contact for him and her at all forever. That means you better start looking for a new church.

You must call his wife and tell her exactly what you have told us. You can send her here and we'll help her as well.

You must tell your governing board at your church- deacons, elders, etc. This is called exposure and it must be done.

I'm very sorry you are here. The church I grew up in was split over something very similar to this. The pastor left and moved on. The woman, with her husband by her side, stood up in church and apologized to the congregation.

Your WW and this OM are not capable of the truth at this moment. You can not trust what they tell you. For your marriage to survive, (1)the A must truly be destroyed- exposing to his wife and the church will help and (2) No contact for life must be in place.

I was afraid that was what I was going to be told.. His wife does know, but the church does not. Is there no way for the 4 of us to be friends and work out our problems together, I understand it is a wierd situtation but I do 100% trust the OM, he is not lying, I think my wife still talking to him is slowing her coming back to me though....But I know what was there is over, but again there are emotional ties that she has with him that she does not or has not worked on with me yet

I am not sure my wife is willing to give up his and his wife's friendship for me and our kids.... well she will get the kids, I am not sure if she is willing to give up OM and his family for me...

Can it be a temporary thing?? no contact till we are good and slowly become friends with there family??

NO! NO! NO!

YOU MUST NOT TRUST HIM!!

THERE IS NO WAY TO STAY FRIENDS!

I don't usually yell, but seriously, man you must hear that.

Ok, evermind- stay friends- in a matter of weeks, it will no longer be just an ea- they'll progress into a full fledged physical affair- is that what you want???

Listen, this man was placed by God in a position of authority. He not only betrayed his wife, he betrayed those people and God.

Let me ask you this, do you honestly, honestly want to stay friends with a man who would do this?

What happens next time you and your spouse have some problems and she starts talking to your beloved pastor again?

I hate to sound mean, but get your head out of your rear and fight for your marriage- there is no friendship that is as important as your marriage relationship.

Get Spector Pro spyware on-line. It is not detectable (runs in Stealth mode if you install it this way). Anti-spyware software cannot find it. Then, you will have information you need.

that is what i had on her computer, but i told her and removed it

don't tell her and put it back

Sheese, not again!

[cynicism]What part of "Thou shalt not..." didn't he understand?[/cynicism]

Exactly what kind of church is this?


And you would be a fool.

You have two choices to make right now before ANY recovery of your marriage can even START>

Choice 1 (the right choice): Expose the affair to the church at large. This ought to enable the process for dealing with the hypocrite OM. Hopefully he'll be disciplined/removed so that he doesn't fleece this flock any further.

Choice 2: Run, don't walk, away from this church and thus, away from OM. Protect your family. You HAVE TO BE TOTALLY SEPARATED from this scumbag.

The four adults actually sat around and discussed the affair? Boy, this Pastor must be a real manipulator. Hello? Of course the OM wants to end it and keep it quiet! Why do you think?

Also, why do you believe this was only an EA? Because your wife and OM said so?

Don't be a fool, man. Do not be a fool.

Even if we give the OM/pastor the benefit of the doubt, he cannot help save your marriage. He is the one that crossed boundaries and is a threat to your marriage.

Also, as long as your wife and he have contact, neither will get feelings back for their spouses. No contact is essential.

In my church, repenting means turning away from the sin, cutting it out of your life. Your pastor should know that.

It is as if someone ran over you with a truck on purpose, and now you are asking them to help you. Stop it. Go get some counseling. I think the shock of this, and the fact that he was a trusted friend and pastor is clouding your judgement.

Ask the pastor how bitter are the words...

What God has joined together..
Let no man put asunder...

each Saturday....

ask them how they taste....

then ask how goes his sleep at night...

ARK

Duglas - This OM has all the incentive in the world to do what he is doing - if not, he loses your W AND his job - you should not believe a word he says.

Listen to all these posters - they know a ton more than I do, but even I can tell you that you are CRAZY to believe a word this "pastor" says.

Personally, I believe there is a special place in he11 for people like him - I may go to he11 myself, so I hate to say things like that, but I believe it.

You need to do what all these people say if you want to save your M. This guy is full of it.

Wow... rememeber I was just asking how to make my wife come around, but now I am guessing that I have to remove her from the situtation and away from the OM so she can stop having feelings for him and redevelop feelings for me...
It is hard to believe her options are work things out with me, or loose our house, stop nursing because he will have to put our S in daycare because she will have to get a job and move into an apartment..and have to split the kids.. I own my own business so she does all the books and works from home, so she has a job and gets a paycheck so to the courts she is not a stay at home mom so she will have to get anohter job because I do not want her doing my books and knowing what I have going on...
The really bad thing is I own a $1 Million IT company soley and a 1/4 of a $1.5M chemical company and we own 4 properties and 5 paid for cars.. It will be a long and expensive divorse...

Have you printed out your evidence and shown his W? You do not know what he is telling her about the relationship, unless you speak directly to her. Get her help to monitor them and prevent the A-partners from seeing/communicating with each other. Tell her about the spyware too. And, get that spyware back on the computer and set up voice-recorders on the phones.

Start attacking the A, or you will lose your family. This man is not to be trusted (neither is your WW either).

No contact--for life...if you want to save your M.

duggie - you have no reason to talk of divorce right now. None.

You also have no reason to talk of recovery - until you take the only steps available to you to end the affair and separate the affairees.

What steps are those?

Refer to the two choices I laid out above.

Launch the nuke on this affair > expose Elmer Gantry for what he is > a wolf in Pastor's clothing.

Prediction: your wife is not the first. She may not be the current "only." Blow the lid on OM's charade and you may be doing others a HUGE favor as well.

WAT