I don't post a lot, but a read a lot. My WW makes some conflicting statements and I don't quite know what to make of it.

It's been a month since discovery. Family and friends are supportive. I don't believe she is still in contact with most recent OM or any of the rest of them for that matter. STD panel came back negative, by the way.

We've seen a counselor twice and WW has agreed to a third session coming up this week.

She says, "I don't want to be married to you. I can never forgive myself. I can never trust myself. I don't trust you."

Then in different conversations we talk about taking dancing lessons or how we're going to pay down our credit cards. We talk like the future isn't uncertain.

She says, "Don't you understand? I don't love you."

Later she says, "Every time I look at you I feel guilt. It just gets worse and worse."

She has expressed to me her frustration with not seeing more results after only 2 therapy sessions.

She presses me to put a finite time stamp on how long we should go to therapy before I realize that she isn't in love with me anymore. Then she says, "I don't want to dedicate the next year of my life to this just to find out that you're done. That you can never forgive me."

All this despite my reassurances that forgiveness and trust are there if we're willing to work to get them.

I say, "I love you." She says, "You're irrational."

I've read HNHN because it was the first one I could get. WW is reading it now. I'm currently reading LB and we have SAA and FILSIL waiting along with the workbook.

Of course, we have good days and we have bad days. We've gone out and had a lot of fun twice since discovery and we're going dancing tonight.

I'm stumped at how to interpret some of what she says. Our therapist put a lot of stress on honest communication at our last visit. WW will say in session that she really doesn't want to go, but then later agrees to another session.

Radical honesty isn't hard for me. I feel she has a hard time grasping it. I feel she scared to put effort into making our marriage what it should be because she feels that what she's done can't be forgiven and trust can't be restored.

Should I be trying to read more into what she's saying or should I take her words at face value?

I would be worried that she said to you that she could not trust herself. This to me implies that she cannot guarantee that she will not have sex with someone else and cheat on you again. There are consequences to her actions and it sounds like she does not wish to have any consequences. After all of this she tells you she cannot trust herself says a great deal and it is very very negative. By the way I do hope that you exposed this affair to the OM's wife or girlfriend. If you did not then you are sending a message to him that it is acceptable to screw your wife without worrying about the consequences to his actions. Expose is essential.

I think this is very typical of a WW in the fog. They all say the same thing. Ignore it, and continue with your Plan A.

Drexxell,

You asked
Well, first and foremost it is part of the fog, and it is guilt. And no you can make nothing of it, but you can respond to it. Permit me to offer you some ideas. In some circles it is called "fog babble" , someone like Believer can really help with ideas on this matter.

You said:


First, one month is very very early for her to be getting it together. IT is good that she is apparently having NC. However, she is going to have to face more than most WS's do. It is the reality of what she has done to her youngest son. She has had another man's baby. You don't state whether she KNEW this little boy was not yours, but you do now, and so does her family. She will never have any real idea what this has done to you, but she suspects you are hurt deeply. She knows she has potentially robbed her boy of the stability and home she should have provided for him with his father. Interestingly, the father would be you. If you leave you will have no reason to stay in his life. I think you will probably want to, but that would be contingent on HER decisions as much if not more as on yours.

She has a big problem here since this is affair #17 she is on now and two of the three children you are rearing are not yours biologically. Can she trust you to continue to be that father? No she cannot, not because of your actions but her own selfish actions preclude her ability to see that you would respond differntly from her. This will take a lot of counseling.


Is she seeing an IC for HER issues. No one has 17 affairs and not have big issues. This is NOT about you, it is clearly about HER. Whatever her issues are they need to be addressed.


Taking the last first. Of course she cannot trust you, you are not behaving as she would have if you had done this to her. You might want to ask her sometime what she would have done if YOU had 17 affairs, and a child by one of those women. Ask her to write down what she would have done to you financially, emotionally, physically. It might open her eyes abit. As for the not wanting to be married, of course this is true. It could not be any other way. Being married to you or ANYONE means she has to be responsible for her actions. It is the fantasy that she can run away from what she has done, to you, your kids, her kids, the marriage, and to herself. But, divorcing you will not change the parentage of the kids. It will not change that she is out having 17 affairs, except that they will not be called affair, right? Wrong, of course they will be because we know that a few of these OM were married.

But, her feelings are normal, and the guilt will be the big hurdle.


There are time where she wants to believe that somehow this can magically be fixed and that she can have you as her husband. That the kids will be happy, she will be happy, and you will be happy. In these times the future is NOT uncertain. You are hearing part of her dream.


I think an answer that may make her stop and think is: "Yes, I do understand you don't love me. How could I miss that point given what you have done. However, I believe that you used to love me, I believe you could love me, and I want to give you that chance because it is best for you to address what has happened."


Look at her and say, "I imagine you do, and I imagine it will." And then ask "do you want the guilt to go away?"

If she asks how. Then answer "with what you need to do is change "guilt" into remorse." And explain that guilt is designed to stop people from doing something ahead of time or stop what they are doing. In this case guilt is a little late. Remorse on the other hand is an emotion that leads to actions. Remorse leads people to address the wrongs they have committed and try to make them right. Perhaps she should consider replacing her guilt with remorse.


One is not going to fix decades of issues in 2 sessions and one month of "recovery". It will take years whether you two remain married or not.


I would definitely validate her fear about you never forgiving you. What you can state is that you want to be able to forgive her, but there is more healing that must be done. It takes 2 years to recover from the average affair.

You might want to point out that if she gives it her all, and it does not work, she will have a better chance of "forgiving" herself, than she does now. She needs to hang in there for herself, not just you, or even the kids. She hasn't considered what losing her or you will do to the kids.


Someone that has had 17 affairs is unlikely to really understand forgiveness or trust very well. They cannot see themselves doing it if they were in your shoes. So don't worry about that. Do worry that she will not seek counseling to address her issues. 17 affairs means that for sure this is NOT about you, especially when she is away from you and the family.


Just smile and say "Yup, sure am."



Normal rollercoaster, and actually pretty good for only a month of NC and finding out what you have found out.


Would you want to go and face what she has done, with a third person? It proves your W is not nuts. She knows she needs this, but that does not mean it does not hurt. No matter how one slices it, a 20 min. ONS is not the same as 17 affairs and having another man's child. She knows that, and she really does not want to face it. Who would? Acknowledge that "this must be very hard on her."


Well, here is where you both need to sit down and really really think. Can she be forgiven, surely God will IF she repents her sins. Her parents can, because she is their daughter, and although I am sure they are very disappointed in her, if she is sincere and changes her behavior they will have no trouble forgiving her. The kids will IF she works on the marriage and gives it her best effort, because it means she does care about them and their happiness and safety by maintaining the family. You will NEVER forget what she has done, NEVER. I cannot emphasize that enough. What can happen, if she is willing to work with you and understand you, is that the feeling associated with those memories can and will fade, so that the hurt will go away.

You need to make sure she understands the difference between forgiveness and forgetting. You can forgive her in time with effort on both of your parts. She is right it won't be easy, but clearly you feel she brings value to your life or you won't be there now.


My take on this question is that you should NOT read more into what she is saying nor should you take it at face value. What you are hearing is a woman in considerable pain, struggling to face the consequences of the decisions she has made and fearing that they have ruined her life and that of her children and perhaps even you.

She is going to struggle alot, or she will give up, in which case the struggle will come later for her. You can only be who you are, and what you are. You can reassure her that you are doing your best, but you cannot make any promises beyond that. But, I think if you realize the awful position she has placed herself, it will help you to deal with her comments as the ebb and flow of this situation continue for awhile.

Hope something I have said is of help.

God Bless,

JL

This is kind of lengthy so I encourage you to go to the bathroom and get a drink before settling in.  First of all, thank you to everyone for a tremendous level of support.


I’m not sure that I’m not in a fog myself. Logical thinking corrupted by emotions. Am I really behaving like any other normal person would behave in this situation?


I expressed this to her and our therapist reinforced it in our last session by saying this would take a lot of work.


She suspected, but she wasn’t certain. She says the sperm donor was a 2 time event and that she told the OM during her pregnancy that there was a possibility that he was the father. She also told him again after the birth. I didn’t know about blood types and the like at the time.

When I exposed that part of this, I was careful to choose my words in saying that I did not take part in the conception of my son and genetics don’t make a daddy.


In the state that my son was born in, the biological father does not have parental rights if he has no relationship with the mother. My name is on the birth certificate. My son carries my name as I carry my fathers name. I think this is hard for WW to accept. I’m not worried about my sons genetics effecting any court proceedings.

WW and I have a major unresolved issue regarding this. I believe that eventually, my son will find out (like when he takes biology and they do blood typing. I did this in 5th grade.) I believe we should tell him before his biology teacher tells him. WW is adamantly against telling him at all.


When we see the therapist this week, this is one of the issues we plan to discuss. WW and I think IC is important for both of us and we want the same therapies we’re using now to do it.


I actually have asked this question, but not to the detail in which you suggest. She claims she would have left instantly. I say claims because she would not have left without the children. So, if the shoe were on the other foot, we’d have to examine her response as the stay at home step parent or the employed biological parent.


Substitute a couple of words and this is my response ver batum. The frequency in which she makes that statement is diminishing.


Her parents went through 1 ½ years of counseling 15 or so years ago for issues that I’m not privy to, but they were issues that did not involve infidelity. I think she’s looking at that and dreading dragging out what she’s feeling for an indefinite period of time.


I believe I have successfully validated that fear. I explained to her that I can’t forgive her if she doesn’t give me the opportunity to do so. I will try explaining it your way the next time it comes up.


As for the first part of this statement, I have expressed this many times. Regardless of what happens to us, we can’t be healthy individuals if we don’t deal with the issues at hand. As a matter of fact, the way she committed to the next session was by telling me she didn’t know how to deal with what was happening. After I explained that therapy was important to me, I asked her if she’d be willing to go with me to learn how to deal with it.

As far as not seeing how it could effect the kids, I’m not sure if she does or not. The fog could be keeping her from remembering that our 14 year old had to see a child psychologist for a couple of years for anger issues stemming from her divorce from her first husband.


As she and I were going through HNHN, we highlighted passages that were important to us and I asked her to tell me which emotional needs I was not meeting. She said there wasn’t a one and that I was a awesome husband and a good man. I’m not sure I believe that because I have made positive changes and she has noticed.

For example, as insane as this sounds, I quit smoking 2 days after discovery. It was a source of contention and a definite LB and I was flat out selfish about it. We both drank socially prior to discovery. She decided she would quit that and I said I would do it with her. She got defensive about that, saying she didn’t want or ask me to, until I explained that I knew she didn’t ask me to and I was doing it to be respectful and considerate. If someone is trying to stop doing something, especially your spouse, you shouldn’t do it in front of them, or behind them for that matter.


Again, very similar response. My favorite is when I say “I love you” and she says, “You’re crazy.” I always reply with, “Crazy about you.” It makes her laugh. Just to be clear, though, I don’t bombard her with ‘I love you’s. I tell her in the morning before we get out of bed when we hug and I tell her at night when we hug before we go to sleep. Sometimes I tell her during the day, but I’m trying not to smother her with it.


I have said that. I’ve also stated that my encouragement and support is available to her and I committed to seeing things through on my end.


Other than the 14yo, the kids don’t know yet. We told the 14yo because the decision for me to adopt him is ultimately his and he needs to be able to make an informed decision. HOWEVER... he only knows that we’re having difficulty and that we’re getting professional help. He knows no details and since WW and I didn’t point a finger at one of us and say this person is to blame for what’s happened, he’s trying to blame himself.

We assured him that this was not his fault. We were crystal clear on that. His first response was, “It’s happening all over again. What’s wrong with me?” I check in with him on an emotional level every day to see how he’s doing. If he keeps saying things like that, which he hasn’t, I’ll make sure the therapist sees him too for IC.


What do I do when I have moments where it seems like the pain and hurt are uncontrollable. How do I keep from absolutely losing it? So far these have only happened in moments of extreme stress, i.e. on Saturday, the mechanic failed to repair my vehicle properly for the 3rd time and I was 100 miles from his shop and had to wait 3 hours for his tow truck.


The happiest moments of my life are with her. Unfortunately, so are the saddest. Even with the revelation of 17 affairs and 10 years of deceit, she didn’t make a large enough Love Bank withdrawal to make me hate her. Don’t get me wrong, though. The withdrawal was pretty much all of her life’s savings.

Our last session with the therapist stripped us down to the raw basics. Our therapist is good. She (the therapist) got me to vent anger that I had been bottling and got me to do it in an atmosphere where there was zero tolerance for selfish demands, disrespectful judgments and angry outbursts.

She forced us to look at one of the consequences of WW leaving the marriage. If WW decides to leave, that is her decision, but I simply can not walk away from my kids. Ultimately, there will be a mighty war concerning the children.

While reading LB on page 181-182, Dr. Harley talks about avoidance-avoidance conflicts. I feel this is where WW is right now. If she stays in the marriage, she has to deal with the pain of what has happened, going through recovery, trying to restore romantic love etc. If she leaves the marriage, she has to deal with the pain of me being downright ugly about me keeping our children. (As you can tell, our marriage is kind of backwards. We both have nurturing motherly instincts and losing our kids is simply not an option.)

I picture WW as having a scale in her mind where she’s adding beans to each side, weighing the emotional pain that each decision carries. I don’t feel as though she’s added the beans to the leaving side of the scale for the emotional pain she’ll have to endure for both dealing with what has happened and the prospect of losing her kids. Especially if the 14yo decides in favor of the adoption. I have expressed to WW my belief that we have to deal with this emotional trauma. Whether we do it together or apart is really up to her at this point.

Now that I have vented what was left of my frustration for the negative aspects, I feel I should mention what I think we’re doing right.

We’re not at 15 hours of undivided attention per week yet, but we’re getting there.

We’re having a blast being awesome recreational companions. Dancing last night didn’t turn out as planned. Who knew country western dance clubs weren’t open on Sundays where we live. I managed to recover and found us a smaller country place that was doing karaoke. I offered my suggestion, she agreed (especially because she loves to hear me sing. I almost made a career out of it, but decided I didn’t want to be away from my family like that.) which brings me to...

We’ve been implementing the Policy of Mutual Agreement. We make a list each night of what are reasonable expectations of things I should accomplish the following day while she’s at work. If we’re both not enthusiastic about one of the items, it gets scratched off and replaced and put on the next days list. As I do the item, I check it off. If I don’t complete it, I note why or how much of it I did. Which brings me to...

Radical honesty... I account for my day, and she pretty much accounts for hers, as much as she can with her job. It’s one of those “If I tell you I have to shoot you” jobs. I know I can call her at any time. Not only that, we agreed not to “sit” on things that we didn’t like. I say, “When you leave your clothes in the floor after you take them off, it makes me feel as though you don’t appreciate the time and effort I put into cleaning the house.” Initially, she was defensive, but the next time I looked, there were no clothes in the floor. I told her thank you, she smiled and said “You’re welcome.”

She says, “I don’t like when you hang up my jackets and zip them up. It takes me longer to get dressed.” I said, “OK” and quit zipping them.

So now we’re not letting silly stuff fester and we’re stopping other silly stuff from happening. I used to ask, “What would you like for dinner?” She’d reply with, “I don’t know”, “I don’t care”, or “Whatever.” Ultimately, this would lead to frustration and a rather dumb argument. Now, we sit down and plan out a menu and we get the kids input as well. If one of us isn’t enthusiastic about a food, then we don’t eat it. Basically, we’re including each other in as many decisions as we possibly can.

We’re getting better at meeting emotional needs and we just agreed to a test to try to avoid arguing and conflicts. If one of us feels threatened or provoked by the way a conversation is going, either one of us can call for a time out and we return to the conversation later.

She says she doesn’t want to be in this relationship anymore, but I’m seeing something completely different in many of her actions. I hugged her from behind this morning before she left for work and she grabbed my hands and pulled my arms around her.

Ok, I think I’ve spent enough time posting. I have a list waiting. Thanks again for being so supportive. 

Drexxell,

I think you have things headed in the right direction. There were a few points I wanted to comment on. In all it seems to me that you don't need a translator. You have this pretty well figured out.

You mentioned about telling your son of his origins.
I am sure she is right now. She is not even really committed to the marriage so she feels she can skate on this one. I side with you on this issue. However, I think given what is going on now this is not the time to discuss it. Oddly your oldest decision about adoption may carry a lot of weight with her and will offer you a very nice way of explaining things to your youngest. I guess if it were me, I believe this is a topic that should be addressed later. But, I do believe your son should know sooner than later.

There was a poster here several years ago, who found out her father was not her biofather when she was in her 30's. It hurt her terribly that this had been kept from her, and the person she was maddest at was her mother. She had children of her own by this time. Her relationship with her father actually intensified but she was still messed up and in some form of counseling for a few years.

If done right kids can adjust because they are given time to adjust before all of this becomes really really important, such as having children of their own.

You then said
This just breaks me heart. And you know "us" guys don't have hearts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Seriously, you two might really want to think about discussing with your counselor a strategy to let your oldest know what is going on at an "appropriate" level, so that he can realize this is NOT about him. He will likely be very mad at his mother for what she has done, but he will heal from that. He might not heal if your marriage breaks up with him knowing nothing. I will not occur to him that you two keeping secret from him the real issues is NOT about him. Man this is tough. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You then asked
Speak with your counselor about this would be my suggestion. However, there is nothing wrong with acknowledging how deeply hurt you are especially to yourself. There is no way you won't have the triggers, and there is no way you will get through this without a few breakdowns. This is especially true while your W is still waffling about whether she wants to stay or run. You will hang in there I am sure, but internally the pain will be great. These feels fade I have been assured by those that have been in recovery for years. I think yours will as well.

It seems as if you have found a good counselor. I doubt she/he will be your IC counselor as well. At least for both of you. I have heard that they prefer to keep that separate.

You close with
I am sure she is very confused. She is deathly afraid of leaving, and yet what she has to face is soooo overwhelming. Her level of betrayal of you is enormous. But, to add to the complexity, you are responding in a way that she cannot understand or fathom. Would you want to be in her shoes? I sure would not.

But, there is something you really should bring up with your counselor at some point and that is the issue of respect. I am thinking of her respect for you. You two made a joint decision for you to be the stay at home parent. That's fine, but it is very very hard for people to remove all vestiges of societal bias with regard to how things should be. I worry that your W does not respect or appreciate what this takes for you to do. You are somewhat isolated as few men do what you do. You are the one that has to go to functions and explain "what you do."

Believe me this is not a put down. But, I fear that she does not respect what this has taken for you to do. Lack of respect is often on the steps to not valuing a marriage. I am not saying run out and get a job, but I am saying a serious discussion with the counselor present seems to be warrented at some point.

Just a few thoughts. You seem to be doing remarkably well. Hang on and kept your safety belt on the rollercoaster has many more ups and downs yet on this ride.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks again for your thoughts. Anyone else reading, feel free to add your input.

I just want to say that at this particular moment, I'm feeling rather elated. So far, I would have to classify this as one of the "good" days. She calls on her way home from work every day to let me know she's leaving so I can have dinner ready when she gets home. At the end of every call I tell her I love her. Today, she said it back.

Now then. I didn't make a fuss about it. Just conversation as normal. Maybe she meant to say it, maybe she didn't. I just closed the conversation and did a little dance after I hung up the phone.

As it relates to my son, the 6yo... On a basic level, WW agrees that telling him before he finds out from another source would definately be the better option of discovery for him. I believe it would be well worth having a counselor present when we do, though.

And for the 14yo, I certainly want to talk with the counselor about how he feels about what's happening and get her opinion about how much he should know. I don't think telling him about all of the affairs involved and about his brother is the right course, but I still don't think he has enough information to make an informed decision about the adoption.

While he may get beyond blaming himself, he's going to want to blame one of us and if he can't, he'll end up hating us both. I know he's angry because he slipped at dinner the other night and made a comment designed to hurt both WW and I. I just leaned over and put my arm around him and encouraged him to choose words that were not hurtful and to be more sensitive about the situation.

I will add, though, that he has made every effort to be incredibly sensitive about taking care of his household chores. And his homework! By no means am I suggesting an affair to get your teen to do his/her homework. Well, I must go prepare dinner.

One day at a time is all we're given.

Hello again everyone, and welcome to my roller coaster. You must be this tall to ride...

Last night went fine. She walks in the door to the smell of pan seared chicken and dinner almost done. We eat with the kids, then out for some light shopping. WW even commented that she had a really good time dancing the previous night and it "almost felt like normal".

This morning was different. She was showering and getting ready for work so I made the bed and made coffee then sat down with SAA to read a few pages while she finished up. She comes out of the bathroom, sees what I'm reading and lets out this huge, exasporated sigh. I look up from the book and ask what's troubling her and she says, "I feel like you're worshiping this guy (Dr. Harley)."

"Why does it upset you that I'm reading Dr. Harley's books?"

There was no response for a few minutes. I continued to wait to see if she was formulating a reply. (patience in sometimes rather difficult) Eventually I asked if she had heard my question. I thought it better to ask that than to assume she had and ask if she was going to answer me.

She said she had heard it but didn't think it was a valid question because she thought it was baited so she wasn't going to answer it. I apologized and told her I didn't mean to offer a baited question. I let her know that if she had told me how she felt about the question when I asked it, I would have rephrased it. And I did. I said, "If something is bothering you about me reading Dr. Harley's books, would you please tell me what it is?".

Then came the, "You've never even talked to this guy." and "You don't know his credentials, only what he's said." and "He's just an author trying to sell books." and also "I'm feeling pressured to read 6 or 4 books a week. In order for me to catch up with you, I would have to read that many."

I had solid factual replies to each statement and put them in a way that was informative and respectful, but that still didn't resolve what was troubling her. Eventually, we got to the root of what was going on. I had ordered books by the same author and didn't appear to be getting other opinions on the matter.

I have only completed 2 of Dr. Harley's books, so her claim of reading so many books a week is exagerated. Other than that, she's a faster reader than I am and reads 2 to 4 romance novels a week.

"Ok, sweetheart. Do you have a book or author in mind that you would like me to read?"

"I don't know."

Bottom line turned out being, she had bought a book for me to read a few years ago but I never read it. Now it all started making sense.

I explained that when I spoke with her about ordering Dr. Harley's books, we were in agreement about it and we both committed to reading them. When she bought this book a few years ago, she did it on her own without asking me if I wanted to read it. At the time, I really had no motivation to read it and honestly had forgotten it was in the bookshelf.

So I asked what I could do to make her feel not so bothered about me reading Dr. Harley's books. She said if I read the book she bought me she would feel better. So, I asked her if she could remember the name of the book and where it was.

I have the book with me now. I haven't read it yet so I'll refrain from mentioning the name or the author until I have formulated an opinion. I will say, however, that the spine of the book isn't cracked and the book is still in new condition. Tells me she hasn't read it either. I don't think it's so much that she wants me to read this specific book as perhaps she didn't feel enough involvement in selecting the books that we ordered.

So, is all this babble? An intentional regression from the good feelings of the last two days? Or is she genuinely upset that I didn't read her book?

Ah Drexxell,

There is an old saying <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Read the book and then leave it out and around as you read Harley's books. What she has not figured out yet, is that you reading these books is for YOU. You seem to agree with Harley's approach to things and therefore you are more likely to follow the approach. She may need to find her OWN approach to rebuilding a marriage.

I can assure you there are many fine books out there, but few as pragmatic as Harley's in my mind. But, one thing most all of these books have in common is an attempt to help YOU and your marriage. So let her choose her own books. The message will be the same just the procedures will differ.

God Bless,

JL

I don't have any problem at all reading whatever book she thinks will help. If there is even one thing of value in the pages it is a worthy read. It turns out she did read it several years ago, although I don't recall seeing her with this book. She says it might be worth re-reading.

I've never been violent and confrontation doesn't do anything for me. WW isn't violent either, but she could confront a brick wall about why it wasn't a cobblestone walk way instead.

I was really kind of curious about her reaction though because the last two days had been pretty good and we didn't go to bed last night on a sour note. Maybe she was just cranky. She's never been a morning person.

We've been e-mailing back and forth most of the afternoon though planning out our evening. Looks like fun time is going to be video games. LOL We enjoy it so what the heck?!

I'm glad I cam come on here and post. I get a lot of strength from this board. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thanks

Ok, so my next question. We have this counseling session coming up in a couple of days. The counselor has said that WW and I have to be completely honest with one another about how we feel about our R and if we are willing to work at it. WW is going to bring up her feelings that she doesn't want to be in R and doesn't love me and then bring up my reactions to her feelings with the counselor.

Basically, my reactions are, I don't believe what WW is telling me. I can accept that she's not in love with me. I mean, that's obvious considering what's going on. What's also obvious is that she hasn't left and she's not trying to kick me out, we've created a more unified front with our kids than we've ever had before and we're having a good time spending time together.

I guess I'm just scared of what the counselor might say. She's already said she doesn't want to give hope for one spouse where there is none, thus why she wants total honesty from us to each other. I'm scared that we get into the counselor's office and WW says she wants out of R and wants a D etc and the counselor backs her up. I don't want to psych myself out over this, but I want to be prepared too. Advice?

Drexxell,

Tell the counselor the truth about your feelings for your W, your hopes for the future and your willingness to address whatever issues are there. I think you stating "the obvious" that you feel she really doesn't want to leave because she has not, will bring up your W's defenses. Don't give her a target.

Let her come to the realization emotionally that her actions are showing. She is NOT sure she wants to leave, but if you rub her nose in it, she just might force it out of spite.

Just my opinion, I hope others respond. You could talk with the counselor ahead of time, but again don't put the counselor or you W in a corner. People need to feel they have options.

Sorry I could not be of more help.

God Bless,

JL

JL,


Point made and well taken. My objective is not to LB, especially in the counselors office. But this counselor is good and maybe she's got something up her sleeve that I don't see yet.

Our first visit with the counselor, she was asking WW and I questions... the kind of questions that push buttons, you know... questions that got WW and I defending one another against the questions. The counselor seemed pleased at the end of the session and told us, "I can see a real friendship there. I heard you defend her when I asked a, b, c, and I heard you defend him when I asked x, y, z."

WW and I kinda looked at each other like "Ummm, what just happened?" It was an eye opener for sure.

I would love to hear others comments on this as well.

So, we get to the counselor last night. Awesome session, BTW. We get into things and WW doesn't bring up any of the stuff I was so afraid of. The counselor said we weren't the same couple that came into her office 3 weeks ago.

I think I have several sources to thank for that. Praying, for me, has helped. Having a great counselor helps. Devouring books has helped. Being on this board has helped too. I'll give the majority of the credit to WW and I though. I believe that's where it belongs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm calling later today to set up IC for me. WW has to get her own referal thing for insurance so that's on her to do. I've decided it's going to be a good day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

>I've decided it's going to be a good day.

Then you're more than halfway there to HAVING a good day!

I hope your day is rockin'!

- Kimmy

I don't get around to checking MB on the weekends cause I'm spending most of my time with WW. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

All in all, the week had more positive notes than negative ones. The drive to get the car on Saturday was uneventful. WW and I were supposed to go dancing after I got back Sat night. I dunno what it was, but I was tired with a headache, had driven for 15 hours and emotionally unprepared for any serious R talk.

It turned into a big blow up that lasted about an hour and a half. Situation resolved with new and renewed committments to one another. No sneak attacks, no ambushes, make sure the other is emotionally prepared for conversation prior to getting into it. Not going to dredge into all the details, but we agreed that the end result was one step back and two steps forward. We also agreed to strive to omit the one step back in the future.

WW says to me afterward, "We can't get through this without the occasional arguement." Is that a committment to getting through this without actually saying "I commit to getting through this."?

We ended up going out Sunday night, which is darn near impossible in SC. This is the Bible belt, you know. We had an absolute blast even though we got all dolled up to go out, get to the bar and find out they're closing early to repair the floors! Ugh!

It was still fun. We danced, she stepped on my feet, we laughed. Kinda like 12 years ago. Then, as I was driving us home, she reached out and held my hand. Small steps. Small small steps. A long way to go yet!

I see a definate hope. We had our MC session on Thursday. It went rather well. The counselor asked if we wanted to schedule for the next week and before I could respond, WW was agreeing to another session. I hope I'm not getting all pumped up just to get deflated later on.

Thank you all for your support so far. I look forward to drawing more from your experiences later. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think all this sounds very positive especially the "get through this" and her reaching for your hand. Just keep on keeping on!

DS14 just got home from school. He walks in the office, sits down in the chair next to me and says, "I've decided. I want to be adopted."

<doing happy dance> Oh, it's a good day. Good day indeed. Even hearing him explain it in 14yo jargonese made sense. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wow, it's great to hear about the happy dance. Congrats!

Drexxell,

That is great news. You should feel very proud, and I think you son is pretty happy to have reached this decision as well.

He has had a tough time with all of this, and you being willing to step up and be his OFFICIAL Dad, is pretty cool.

God Bless,

JL