I think you're actually doing most, if not all, of the parenting. Your WW doesn't have much time left over for them except when they contribute to her self image...swimming, riding, etc.

Frankly, I don't know how your attorney envisions the process of giving her money for the children. I thought you would have the children in your custody. I guess you're thinking of the time lapse between when your attorney files the legal action to get you back in the home and when it takes effect, right?

Well, anyway, no, I wouldn't work from receipts. I would give her an amount you think sufficient to feed the girls and take care of their other (basic) financial requirements (school, camp, whatever) for a week or whatever time frame you determine appropriate. (How long has it been since your wife had to work from a budget? Having to do so is pressure on her to come back to the marriage.) I'll bet it's been a long time.

Maybe you can adjust up or down based on feedback? Annotate each check you give her with "child support," or something to that effect? I still think you should run your question by your attorney. He'll probably have a good amount based on local conditions and experience with what court-ordered support is there.

She called me twice today... once while I was heading to the house while her and the girls were out - she asked if I could pick up some horse feed - which I did. I got to the house and cleaned up their breakfast mess and did a load of laundry. I am still doing Plan A stuff.

Then she just called to ask how to load pictures off a CD... her Best Friend took some headshots of her so she could submit for this radio job.... I heard the girl that is leaving the radio station and she was very emotional as she said it was a hard job and took away from her husband and gave her no time for her other interest and career in modeling and singing... WOW my wife thinks this job will be a stepping stone into modeling and actiong... I don't know how many people will apply but she has a chance.

My lawyer comes off vacation wednesday and I am going to try and get in as soon as possible.

First thing i am going to ask him is to call my wife and get her attorney's name and number - because she has one now so she says.

So I asked her to send me the picture that she chooses for her submittal.... lets see if she sends it

Yeah...again the pattern of talking to you about herself and things she needs/wants. Plan B will hit her like a ton of bricks. She has NO idea how much she depends upon you to meet all her ENs. What you heard about the job in radio being tough is similar to what my brother has told me after he worked in it for many years. The call from your attorney is going to make her sit up and take notice...I wonder what she'll do and say? I know she says she has a lawyer, but WS's have said that before. It'll be interesting.

What is ironic or sad or interesting is that I am logical thinker and always interested in human interaction and I have been catching myself looking at this situation in the third person. Almost like a chess play, if I do this would she do this.

So the letter is out there... she didn't answer the root questions last night would I be allowed back in or not... she was still up in arms about the 'threat"

So was about to send her an email seeing if she was going to answer the question but now I am going to wait until monday before asking her the question.

I was talking to someone about the sitch and specifically why I slept with someone and what was causing me needing to do it.... it is based on my EN not being met and my wife being selfish back then and makeing me feel that I needed to be entitled and I accept that I shouldn't have and should have been stronger, but she owns some of the problems in our marriage

Of course she owns part of the problems of the marriage. I'm surprised you doubted it. This pattern of behavior displayed by your wife is not a thing that was born overnight. It's grown up over the years. Today, she's not even aware of her sense of entitlement and the selfishness of her daily demands.

I'm not excusing what you did, btw. If I'd been around you back then, I'd have applied my size 11 combat boots where it would have done the most good. You were reacting to a deficiency in your marriage, but you made a horribly inappropriate choice in solving the problem.

You seem to understand how wrong it was to react that way though. Your wife does not. I strongly recommend you make some deep individual counseling/therapy for both of you as one of the conditions of reconciliation. That's in addition to the marital counseling you need to go to. You folks need to sit in the company of a wise ol' professional counselor who is oriented towards pro-marriage and who knows the problem of infidelity inside and out. You're going to have to shop around to find that guy, or gal. Start looking soon

You know what? I wouldn’t even call and ask her about the letter on Monday. Let the extended weekend pass. You put the onus on her to respond; keep it that way. If she won’t respond on her own volition, let the call from your attorney be her notification the problem isn’t going away. If she calls, sure, discuss it to death, but I'm not sure she will call.

I see signs your wife is something of a conflict avoider, though it might be something to do with the fog. No one likes intrusions into their Fantasyland. Aliens still in the fog ignore unfriendly things as long as they can. Anyway, I think she will avoid answering the questions in your letter until she absolutely has to do something. When she does, I think it’s going to be in a petulant, poorly considered manner because she won’t have used this weekend to actually sit down and consider what she should do. I suspect she will try to bargain with you again even though she should realize she has no position from which to make a bargain. I’m building a mind picture of your wife and that’s how I see her. What do you think so far about my picture of her?

So first thing.... last night she called me and asked me to look at her submission for the radio position, it was an email and included a picture that was taken by a friend yesterday... WOW she looked great, but her write up was really weak for a job that hundreds if not thousands will apply for - its a open call that they are doing for new on-air talent. I thought she would have written more and done it a bit better. I told her that the picture was great.... I had asked her earlier in the day if she would send me the picture she would be submitting. I was really suprised that she sent it and then when she called me up and asked my opinion of her submission

I see this her checking for land mines, she wasn't extremely warm but she wasn't cold. I think right now she is still on a different path than I am, but she wants us to be friends or whatever will make her feel okay.

However I am still plan A'ing and I am still needing to make tought decision about our finances and our daughter's.

Wife and the girls are heading to the lake today to go skiing with her best friends family. I had asked her last night if the girls could call me before they left to the lake, but she must have forgot <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I will call them shortly while they are on the way to the lake. Hope she has fun and does get a chance to relax, but with 3 girls on the water or near water - she might not have a good time.

She had the girls all day yesterday and when I called last night to talk to the girls I could tell that she had been doing some disciplining....

Several people that have known my wife for years have also said she is a conflict avoider, she is also a person that will make herself the victim. I even confronted her parents about victimizing her when she was younger and her mom told me the things she had said happened didn't, but some things in her past did. However she always made it sound worse and made herself more the victim. Even now she is the victim.

One way she reacted to the letter was by saying that I couldn't make her sound like she was the one having the affair.... okay but your the one leaving the marriage, the one impacting the children, the one not making decisions, the one that wants her cake and eat it too.

LH I agree with, "When she does, I think it’s going to be in a petulant, poorly considered manner.." Just as she says he has talked to a lawyer already and whenever I make her feel out of control, she reacts poorly either throughs in the towel or trys to push buttons to cause an escalation in the conflict.

Well I think your right, I will leave it alone until wednesday. I will get my lawyer to call her and i will get an appointment with him to see about custody - by the way I don't think she is a bad mother but I also don't think i am a bad father.

I am sending this letter to my wife just to put some adminstrative things out to her but I want to make sure there is no DJ or LB in there... please let me know

wife,

How was your guys day at the lake... Hope you guys had fun.

I miss the girls and was wondering if Tuesday you could bring them to apex so I could see them. I know you don't work that day but I am down to 100$ for gas and I can't get to work, out to clayton wed/thus with out that. I could take them to the park right down the road and hang out with them for a hour or so.

I don't want to step over any boundaries or make your feel like that you can't or don't do things, god that is not what I think of you, but we need to make appt for the girls in july for the doctor. D3 has her 5 year old check still needed and D2 has a 8 year old checkup do. So we could get all 3 of them in for a checkup.

Also, if you think the girls need to see the eye doctor, we can make appt at the walmart eye doc for all 3 of them. I can find out how much it would cost and see about getting it done.

I would like to take the girls for the 4th July weekend and probably take them to the beach either in wrightsville or up to atlantic beach by moorehead.

Well either write back or give me a call when you have a chance.

me

Of course she forgot. It wasn't something she could identify as having a beneficial effect for her. Same, uh…stuff, different day.


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Huh? Who does she think WAS involved with another man, and doing her darndest to get with a second one? Whew! The fog is strong in the alien today. She’s going to have a BIG shock when she comes up against the statutes regarding adultery if it goes that far, isn’t she? What you’re telling me is she didn’t learn a darned thing from the alienation of adultery letter from your lawyer to OM#1. If it had been me, I’d have suspected things might not be stacked in my favor in that direction.

BTW, how did OM#1 react to that, or do you know?


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I see no LB's or DJ's at all in the letter. It doesn't mean she'll react favorably, but there's nothing in the letter but ordinary housekeeping issues. I suspect the thing she’ll fasten on is your request for her to bring the kids to you though. Let’s see if the weekend has put her in a good enough frame of mind to agree to that.

Good luck. Do some fun things for yourself this weekend too, Viking.

The bring the kids here is what I think she might have an issue with, but she seems to be oscilating lately and she might feel that I am due for all the times I do things for her.... I have missed the kids today, not so much her which is actually good. I have been obessing over her and I am starting not too.... but the girls I have spent so much time with them that it feels strange not having them around.

So she has never slept with anyone in our marriage, so she feels superior to me in that aspect. but I agree with you that she has been out of the marriage for quite sometime.

I love google desktop, i got into her machine and even though she had deleted a lot of emails over the past 8 months I at least was able to piece together some of her other converstaions.

Yeah i am going to go out tonight and watch Xman III and then probably find somewhere's to watch the hockey game tonight, even though I don't like hockey.... unfortunately all "our" friends are married and are with their families this weekend...

You know I think she might have issue with me having the girls the 4th but it would only be fair she had them this holdiay weekend and that is what I will point out to her.

While doing some research on custody and what I can expect I found this interesting portion of the marital laws..... So the wife says I adbonded her - because her friends have repeated laymens interpertation of the laws and what could happen in court... this is what my lawyer was probably talking about about taking a lot of steam out of her sail.....
The key thin is the 3 element of abandonment,

a) I had justification to leave my wife was having an EA
b) She asked me to leave
c) and I have all intentions to renew cohabitation

What I am thinking of doing is sending her an crafted email ask her if she asked me to leave in august and to leave in march was due to her needing space or to talk to these guys??

2. Abandonment

Abandonment occurs when a spouse brings cohabitation to an end without justification, without the consent of the other spouse, and without the intent of renewing cohabitation. All three of these elements must be proved by the spouse seeking to show the other spouse's abandonment. A spouse is justified in leaving the other spouse, however, when the withdrawing spouse cannot continue the marital relation with safety, health, and self-respect.

North Carolina cases also recognize constructive abandonment as marital fault as well. Constructive abandonment arises when the other spouse does not physically leave the home but, rather, commits affirmative acts of cruelty or neglect or other willful failure to fulfill the obligations of marriage.

The dependent spouse may be driven to leave the home, in fact, by such acts of cruelty or neglect. Notice that the dependent spouse who is forced to leave the home by the other spouse's misconduct not only does not abandon the injuring spouse but has, in fact, been constructively abandoned.

How does this sound for a crafted letter - I need her to acknowledge that she asked me to leave - thus giving me consent

wife,

You asked me to leave and separate back in august and then you asked me to leave and separate in march.

Did you do that to have space? Or did you want to try and start a new life?

Oh, she's bringing up ancient history huh? It figures. <sigh>

Are these newly recovered emails you’re talking about? I hope they give you an insight in how to negotiate things with her when she’s found out how bad it is out there for her in Plan B. I can’t get by what your mother told you about her penchant for portraying herself as a victim. Some of the events never happened and she exaggerated her victimization in many of those that remained, eh?

Pardner, when it comes to setting conditions for reconciliation, I seriously think you have to set a firm requirement for her to go to IC and cooperate with the IC fully. Over and above the problems with fidelity in your marriage, your wife has some real issues within herself that need identification and resolution.

She will have problems with the girls being with you on the 4th of July. I predict it. However, she won’t immediately express any misgivings with it…so long as you’re complimentary about the photo she’s using to apply for the radio job and don’t tell her how weak her resume is...and nothing else happens to irritate her. It’ll be something she reserves for a moment when she’s no longer getting that boost in her esteem from you. However, you may never need to address it. Hopefully, you’ll have custody by that time and you may even be in a dark Plan B.

Good luck with X-Men III. I haven’t done anything but see a couple of trailers for it. I’m going to settle for a couple of good John Wayne war movies on AMC or TNT. There’s more of a story to them anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LH I am watching wake island now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have a feeling that my wife will let me move back in as long as between now and then I don't irrate her, but I am not going to ask. but what I think I will do is get ahold of the lawyer on wednesday and just have him call her and have him layout....

I am your H lawyer
I need to know if your going to allow him to move back in?
Your H says you have retained a lawyer, would you please provide their name and number so I can update your case file.

I can wait this week but you know this still really sucks, because I am going to have to use bill money to pay for the lawyer, so I am damned if I do and I am damn if I don't.

But I feel if I get back into the house I can do a sold plan A and start moving forward. I don't know how solid my wife's position is, but I don't want to assume anything. I don't want assume an alien, I need to assume she is serious about divorce and act accordingly, but at the same time improving myself. I have been reading the seven secrets of marriage and again I see a lot of things that she brings to our marriage and she is not owning.... oh well will have to see if we get to a point where we can talk about IC.

We are supposedly still going to MC this week, which is a good sign.

I have a question because you guys are in a position that counter's mine. I am husband that wants custody or atleast 50/50 custody of my 3 girls (6/8/11) So I am fully engaged in their lives and when I realized that my wife was just going along with parenting, the only time they have breakfast before school is when I fix it and I fix eggs or pancakes. If they are hungary they usually fix themselves a bag of dry cereal to take in the car. So I work 60 hours a week and my wife works 20 hours a week and I come home / before we separated and would do things like vaccum or laundry or clean the toilets.

Now I am a service oriented person I like doing things for people so that is how I was trying to show that I cared..

So our girls are in private school that we both agree on but we are moving to another school - again we agree - now we have been talking about me taking the girls and picking them from school each day - its on my way to and from work and she is taking a new "her dream job" but it goes from 3:30 to 8PM almost every night. She also will work 1 weekend a month...

So my question is if your H was a caring father and would do good things for you kids even if you were separated/divorcing what would you think of that?

I have issues with some of her actions and how she does mothering for herself and will let the kids operate on their own for a lot of the time.

I talked to the wife this morning and it was small talk but then I allowed myself to get pulled into a R talk, it went down hill from there. She pulled out all the things I have done in the past 11 years but I didn't go down that path.

I focused on listening, repeating and understanding.

I told her that I wanted her to tell me when she thought I was being disrepectful or judgemental

We got a bit hot so I ended the call with a bow out..

I did send her this txt page a bit later..."Please believe me that I don't want to fight or upset you anymore. I am lost and operating on instinct and trying to take what your saying to me about what I have done in the past and improve myself. If there were 5 things you would like me change what would they be, this is for me to know? Honesty? conversation? respect? affection? acknowledgement?"

I don't know if it was appropriate or not

Viking, I don't think it's going to get you anywhere engaging her with texts like that, or arguing with her about all the problems in the marriage back to day one. While they are sincere efforts on your part to get a dialogue going, is not going to work because in her rewrite of history, you are nothing but the devil incarnate. Dialogue depends upon both parties coming to the table in good faith and with a willingness to work toward a solution. She’s not there yet. These issues are things to discuss in marital counseling at some point in the future.

Instead of letting small talk devolve into arguments that lead nowhere, use reverse babble to deflect her anger and avoid your own heated replies. I’m sure you’ve run across the concept in your time here but here’s a link to a thread about it anyway.

Orchid's Reverse Babble Thread


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Okay, so the rest of the week is going to go something like:

1. You’re waiting to see if she responds to your request to come home favorably
2. If she doesn’t, you’re calling your attorney to initiate legal action
3. ?

You’ve been vacillating a little on what you’re going to do when you get back in the home. Specifically, I don’t have a good handle on whether you’re going to attempt more Plan A or whether you’re going to go to Plan B at that point or what. Are you going to hold up on Plan B until she reacts to you being back in the home?

I’m sure you’ve told us all of that, but maybe it would be a good thing to set it all out again. I know it helps me get things clear in my mind.

Enjoy your Memorial Day, pardner.

So I think I got a slap in the face with her still believing that I interferred with just a friendship, when the friend even agress it was not appropriate....

I have my Plan B letter ready to go and if she does decide not to allow me to come back to the house, I will launch the Plan B letter today and contact the lawyer wednesday.

I just not seeing any movement in her attitude that she has no responsibility in our marriage or what she is doing now. I am not even thinking of the past I am thinking in the last 6 months

Okay, I just posted on your other thread. I think I see now you went through a low point a few hours ago. You’ve been getting excellent advice from Melody and MrsWondering. They’ve been out here for a long time and have a lot of insight into the problems you’re facing. My questions on the other thread still remain though.

Is there a possibility you can get a magistrate to provide an order for you to return to the home and then you do a little more Plan A…or do you see that as being to stressful and too painful? Can you lay out all the pros and cons as you see them? Sometimes that helps organize one’s thoughts.

Hang in there, Viking. Melody, MrsWondering, all the rest, and I are here to help you through this and you WILL get through it.

Thanks yeah today has been a bit rough but hashing it out her instead of with her is making things much better.

Its not the pain or stress its the FOG its the utter FOG that I have to deal with it

Okay, not a problem. The frustration of having to deal with someone who WILL not use logic is tremendous. But, it's the alien talking, not your wife. Remember the fish head thing you had going for you a while back? Bring it back, pardner. If you expect only gibberish, and who can expect anything but gibberish from aliens with the head of a fish on their shoulders, then you can relax.

There’s no way they can reason logically, right? So don’t expect them to. Ease up and just go with the flow. Did you read Orchid’s “Reverse Babble” thread I showed you? There’s the way to go. When the alien has control and starts babbling out of the fog at you, babble right back at it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />