WAT & Longhorn

I forgot to thank you for your never ending support and advice! It's caring people like you that make it possible for newbies to have hope to carry them through the darkest of days.

THANK YOU!!

I just need to vent a little as this day has turned to complete crap <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />! I laid down with my son last night and feel asleep for 30 minutes. When I woke WW had gone to bed before I could talked to her about a conversation we had at dinner so I emailed her the following:

[color:"red"]
WW,
As I was laying in bed with S4 tonight I was going over my day and your comment at dinner about how much work you had to do on your book replayed in my head. You said that you really need as much time working on the book as possible, including using babysitter, working evening, weekends and basically needing to lock yourself into your office for the next 2 months to get the book completed as you have dreamed. For the life of me I can’t remember how I responded to you…so I can only assume that if I responded, it most likely didn’t give you the reassurance that I’m behind you on this.

So please give me this moment to have a do-over!

WW I’m so proud of you and how you have in the face of impossible odds and shear determination carved out a dream of publishing your book and starting a new career. Your talent and passion has always absolutely amazed me and I know it’s truly rare. Please know that I’m here to support you in your new career as both a husband and a friend. I believe in you and your book(s) with all of my heart. Using the babysitter to find time to get all of this done has not been a successful solution and I can imagine has been frustrating at best. I don’t propose to know a solution to this but I do believe between the two of us we can figure something out that will allow you the time you need and deserve. I know in the coming weeks as the boy’s start their scheduled days it appears that time will open up but I’m concerned this may not give you the actual time you need. My work does allow me to take time off and I’m offering to do this so you can have real time without concern “is the babysitter is going to show” or “are the boys going to need me for some reason”. Of coarse I’m more than willing to take the boys evenings and weekends if that helps…but I can’t imagine that after a day with the boys then trying to do the creative work that you need to do is even possible.

Let’s talk about this. I’m so excited for you …Your book is going to be incredible!

I love you,

Qbert [/color]

She emails me the following response this morning:

[color:"red"]
Qbert,

Thank you. Your email gives me peace of mind. I know I can do the work. I live to do the work. But, keeping my anxiety in check is half the battle. A relaxed mind is a creative mind.

Thank you,

WW
[/color]
Great! I believe I have empathized with her concerns about needing time to get her work completed.

I get a call at 4:00pm today with her YELLING that her day has been he11, the house is a mess and she’s completely depressed and in a huge hole. I say I just got out of a meeting, that I will stop by work to pick up some things and head home a little early to relieve her.

I literally don’t take two steps in the door or say hi before she starts ripping into me. “YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE11 THIS DAY HAS BEEN. IF YOU COULD EMPATHIZE WITH WHAT I’M GOING THROUGH THEN I COULD TALK TO YOU. BUT YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO EMPATHIZE. I KNOW SOMEONE THAT COULD EMPATHIZE WITH ME AND TELL ME THE THINGS I NEED TO HEAR.”

I said in a calm voice that I’m willing to listen as it sounds like it has been a really rough day.

“I’VE BEEN AT HOME 24/7 THE LAST 8 YEARS AND NOW IS MY TIME. I GAVE UP MY CAREER AND THAT IS NOT HAPPENING AGAIN. THE BOYS ARE DRIVING ME NUTS AND I’M NOT DOING THIS AGAIN. I DO NOTHING BUT PICK UP THIS HOUSE AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW TEDIOUS THAT IS. CONSIDER THIS MY RESIGNATION, AS I’M WORKING FULL TIME UNTIL THIS BOOK IS OUT. IT’S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO FIND SOMEONE TO WATCH THE BOYS DURING THE DAYS FROM HERE ON OUT. IF YOU CAN’T FIND SOMEONE TO WATCH THE BOYS THEN YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THEM YOURSELF”.

She then proceeds to leave the house for a smoke.

In the mean time I start cleaning up the pile of laundry detergent from the carpet that S4 has used as snow with his trains. I then notice that the S7 has let a Popsicle melt on top of the computer so I abandon the laundry detergent to start cleaning this mess up. I was fairly calm up to this point…but know I’m completely pissed off!

WW comes back from her smoke still mad and tells that since I offered taking time off work she wanted me to take this Friday and Monday off and leave for the weekend with the kids. I said because of scheduled appointments I could take tomorrow off but not Monday which she scoffed at! She then tells (i should say yells) me to get the kids out of the house and not return until it’s time for them to go to bed as she needs time alone.

Now normally this would have turned into a complete pissing match….but in the moment I decide this argument is not worth the back slide and all of the hard work I’ve done trying to deposit into WW love bank. So I got the kids out the door as fast as possible. We went to the grocery store to get food for a picnic and went to the park before coming home 3 hours later.

WW spent the time cleaning up the house and again stated that she is basically a maid and it’s a complete waste of her talents. She said that “I’m so mad right now but I don’t want to talk about it”.

She eventually did calm down and we agreed that I would rework my schedule in order stay home tomorrow with the boys so she can get a handle on her work. No thanks for reworking your schedule or sorry I was so sort with you today! Just ME ME ME it's all about ME!

The wounderful world of withdrawl! And to think I could have several more months of WW completely going off the deep end!

Thanks for letting me vent….I hope tomorrow is better.

Actually I know it will be better as I get to spend it with my boys and there is nothing better than that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> !

Wow, not having witnessed withdrawal myself, I guess that's what it could be.

A positive note? She obviously feels really comfortable with you to be able to project to you so, er, vigorously.

When's your next Steve session?

WAT

Hi Qbert. I have followed your thread but never posted. I think you're on the right path as far as the MB part.

I am going to suggest that you and WW find a better solution to your household problems. When I read what the house looked like when you came home I can FEEL your WW frustration.

You didn't detail what happened so the folloiwng is what I thought when I read what happeened:

My first question is WHO was looking after the kids while a) the laundry detergent was used as snow? b) the popsicle was left on the computer?

THe reason I ask is that for that to happen 2 things stand out. WHY would the boys think that either action was acceptable? Where are their boundaries and their rules? THe popsicle on a copmputer? BEsides the fact that it could kill the computer, there seems to be no respect for other ppls property. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I have 4 children. And on the few occasions that they were destructive and did something like that, I did not clean or fix their mess. THEY did it. It is THEIR consequences.

When your WW told you to take the kids out while she cleaned up was not a bad thing on one level. SHe was PO'd so she needed time to cool down. BUT I think that if instead you worked TOGETHER as a family including your children in the clean up might have been a better idea to try next time. Becasue while you were gone she STILL was the maid, right?

It is everyone's house. EVERYONE needs to pitch in. It doens't matter if the kids are 1 or 20. Otherwise you BOTH ARE maids. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

THe soltuion? Well a good babysitter would be a start. ANd they are scarce as hen's teeth. But interviewing and word of mouth by BOTH you and WW through POJA would be a good place to start in my humble opinion.

If you sit down with WW and come up with a PLAN it could help on a lot of levels. You will be working as partners AND as parents. Communication and empathy and supporting each other is a very positive step. Your email to her was a great example of that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

THe other thing that I would suggest is that hiring someone once a week or once a month to DO the housework would give you BOTH welcome relief. Even if it was a one time GIFT from you to her say on a Friday so that the house looks good for the weekend so you can ALL spend FAMILY time togther without stressing over the house might be good.

I know I would be ecstatic if I got home and found the house clean and sparkling.Even if it was a rare thing.

Qbert. This is not a judgment. Just an outsider's observation. Just somone who has been there done that. ANd hoping to offer suggestions to a possible solution.

Sounds like withdrawal to me, Q. In saying that, I'm presuming she's not acted like this in the past. Her demands for complete independence from all parental responsibilities are clearly over the top and I hope it's simple frustration resulting from the withdrawal added to a natural urge to finish the project. She's not single and she cannot act that way, dream book or no.

What is so incredibly critical about the two-month deadline anyway? If she takes four months and takes care of the kids too, then the book turns into a pumpkin?

I think you must keep on keeping on for a while, Q. If this is withdrawal, it should begin to ebb soon. Dr. Harley writes the most intense period is the first three weeks and tapers off from there, though it can last for months. If this particular difficulty lasts for much longer, it may be a behavioral problem you need to bring up in MC.

Hang in there, Q. If you can hold on to your temper and show great patience, it will pay big dividends further down the line.

FA-A,

I’ll answer a couple of your question before I start agreeing with you.



WW was at home and most likely was lying down (depressed/tired) or in the back yard smoking (relief from depression and withdrawal).

That being said we are dealing with some special issues since our S7 is autistic. This is neither an excuse for WW not watching the kids nor an excuse for destructive behavior from our children. It’s just a fact that we are dealing with a non-typically developing child for whom many typical parenting techniques don’t work. This is why I don’t expected the house to be clean and tidy when I get home from work and understand the frustration of WW not being able to keep up the house during the day. It also means we can’t use the typical high school babysitter to watch the boys as they are not equipped to deal with S7 needs and behaviors.

Ok now for the part where I start agreeing with you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!

I agree that together WW and I need to re-look at our parenting skills in regards to respect for property and having consequences for destructive actions. We do have different opinions on ramifications for our kid’s actions. Being the disciplinarian in the family, in this instance I would like to take away the computer and the trains for a period of time to teach children there are consequences for there actions. WW says that works great for me because I can set these new rules (or in this case take away there most precise toy), trot off to work and not have to deal with the whining all day as she is home with them during the week. We absolutely need to come to a NEW way of addressing consequences as what we have done in the past has not worked. I’m going talk with WW this weekend and see if together we can come up with a new plan of action.

We did have someone in to clean a couple of times a month, but WW said it was more trouble than it’s worth as she felt the house had to be clean before the house cleaner got there and it was not worth it for her. I’ll bring up this idea again.

The bottom line is together need to figure out a new solution because this is not working.

Thanks for the outside observation It has been helpful and has given me a push to sit down and talk with WW to come up with some new ideas.

WHew! I am glad you took what I said in the spirit it was given. It is my analytical and well um... BLUNT way of talking. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Call me Sour Male's counterpart. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Lemonman is my hero in that department. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I DO understand about a special needs child. My SS was abused and his unatural mother drank and did drugs while pregnant with him and he has ADHD and likely FAE as well <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

So, I understand the sheer frustration and even more the bone deep fear that goes along with dealing with that on a day to day basis.

TO bring something else up from personal experience, I went through a similar experience as far as the anger and the tiredness. It was undiagnosed for YEARS but it turned out to be clinical depression .

And I HEAR what you WW is saying. And I think there are things that you might consider. I get the feeling that WW is a bit controlling and a perfectionist.

When I say that I mean that she must be in control and feels her self-esteem is trampled on if SHE doens't do it ALL> Yet of course that is an impossile row to hoe on your own. ANd it is a VERY instinctive and life long habit. It is VERY hard to break. I am the poster child of that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I hear a lot of "YABUTS" as in yabut I have to clean first. Yabut it isn't as good as I do. Yabut is a word I coined for the EXCUsES to NOT change. BEcsaue to change is a risk and requires a recognition that control is not that great a thing at all times. And that is a very scary thing.

SO perhaps an apoointment with a physician and perhaps Anti Depressants AND IC at least for her for now. MC does no good until the remorse and the commitment to rebuild is there.

I enthusiastically recommend POJA. Please read up on the concept along with negotiation tactics and ground rules.

Qbert I do NOT post often and only when I feel that I can contribute or cut through the BS. I will keep an eye out but tell me to butt out any time you think I am off the wall.

I also will let another vet that has a child with autism know about this thread and have a look at this thread too, okay? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

FA-A,

I'll answer this post another time as I just got stabbed again in the heart <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

I checked WW purse tonight and found a new phone card that was purchased today but wasn’t used. I confronted WW and she admitted that she bought it to call OM. She said she has not been contacted with him since last week when she told him that they would never speak again.

I asked her why she was going to call OM. Was she intending on starting their relationship back up? She said to wish him happy birthday, but then decided not to do it after she bought the card. I thanked her for not calling him and expressed that I wish she could talk to me about the pain/withdrawal she is going through. She said that she needs to talk to her IC about this and doesn’t feel comfortable talking to me.

I asked again for a NC letter that would give me the commitment that she was ready to truly try to save this M. No response.

I then asked her does she want to work on trying to save our M? She said that because of our sons and investing 17 years into our marriage she wants to see if it can work. She said that her hesitation is that she doesn’t believe that there is anything left between the two of us to salvage a marriage with.

I told her that I do believe our marriage can recover, but it’s not going to happen if she has contact with OM and we need to get into MC. She said at this time she needs to work on herself with her IC since she has only had one session and then we can talk MC.

I have to go to bed as I can’t deal with this right now.

This is going to be a great fathers day weekend <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

(((Qbert))))

SHe did not use the card? So ask for it as a sign of faith. HUgs t you. It IS a roller coaster. Take care. And I do wish you a GREAT father's day. It is aobut YOUR relationship with YOUR kids.

You did good.

Take a breath and step away for a second.

Hang in there.

Qbert,

While your wife is acting our more out of frustration from withdrawel and an overwhelming feeling of not knowing where she is at in life post an affair...the stress of raising an autistic child doubles it. If he has a bad day - she has a REALLY bad day which REALLY adds to her already BAD DAYS. I have a DS4 who is autistic.

Side line, I am not sure what the qualifications are in the united states, but here in Canada, an autistic diagnosis qualifies for a wee bit of respite - have you looked into what breaks your wife can have away from her autistic son?

Hang in there and be strong - her tantrums will come and go over the next few months. More than likely - she was feeling guilty today for her actions over the past bit, her DS7 was being harder than usual....and it was too much to shoulder. When we can't shoulder things we throw blame and justifications as they do make us feel better cause we don't have to look at ourselves - looking at yourself hurts - blame makes you feel better temporarily.

Autistic children can be normal one day - and the next day not understand the word NO, that they understood the day before...one day understand danger, the next day have no clue what danger is...for a mom around him most of the time, it's VERY overwhelming...see what kind of support you guys can get in regards to him....if you dig deep into the system - you can find it!

Hang in there - you did everything right...she is pushing you...life would be easier if you reacted to her and acted just like she thought you were....continue to be that rock...and she will continue to climb out of her hole.

Qbert,

I understand the emotions you are dealing with... feeling like you were "stabbed in the heart". The only way I was able to get past my worst times was to read as much as I could from people like Dorry who could share how it felt being a FWS. To understand the emotions, confusion, loss, depression, etc. that your W is going through really helps to find a little compassion and patience. It doesnt' take away your own hurt, but gives you some strength to hold on and deal with it.

If you were a friend to an alcoholic, who was just off the bottle for week, and that friend went and purchased a bottle because he was having a rough day, how would you react? Now , if that friend purchased the bottle, but just sat it on the coffee table and didn't open it or drink it... wanted it, but chose not to... taking every last ounce of strength to not open it, and embarrased that you found him with it... how would you react. You might praise him for the strength to not open it and drink it... and reinforce that tomorrow will be easier.

I would imagine this is similar to your W buying the phone card. She didn't use it... rejoice... look for the good in this. This is the worst days for you as you deal with the terrible emotions you are suffering... but remembering this is hard for the FWS as well makes it easier to handle. Yes, she got herself into this situation... but probably did not set out for all this pain and hurt. I would imagine her confusion, shame, depression, anger (at herself and the world), tiredness, sadness, fog, etc. has her in a terrible place right now. You need to be her savior and rock.

If you react negative to her about the phone card, the next time she will hide it more thoroughly... and maybe use it. She is looking for a life raft... the safest and least painful raft she can find. If you lash out... you are not safe to her. If you react positively, she MAY trust you next time to talk about how she is feeling... although this will probably take a lot more than just one good reaction... so it is a tough haul for you. But in the end it will be worth it. The strength of character that you can build through this will put a huge silver lining on the worst days of your life.

It sucks that you have to be the life raft when you need one yourself with all the hurt you are facing. But being the life raft for your W can also save you. Find a positive way to feel your pain and let it out... don't just hide it away or it will resurface when things are going better. But don't use your pain against her.

Give her space, love, patience, understanding and compassion. A rock doesn't hold onto her... it gives a strong, safe place for her to hold onto... she may flounder around in the water for awhile before she holds on, and she may let go occassionally as she fights and heals... but in the end, that is what you want... neither one of you should be holding onto the other... just holding each other.

Shaden

FA-A

Thank you so much for your posts yesterday, they did have an effect on me. I really think this is a time that WW and I need to re-evaluate our parenting skills.

I spoke a little with WW today and tried to get her feeling about re-looking at how we discipline our boys and what we really expect of them. She was a little receptive but no big discussion came out of this as we are both I think are reeling from what happened last night.

BTW she threw the phone card away last night without me asking…I just found it in the garbage before I went to bed.

Thanks again for you support and advice! It really did help!

FA-A,



You got this right when you desribe my WW.

Hopefully her IC that she just started seeing will help her with some of these issues.

As far as the meds go for depression I maybe IC will get through to her that this may be necessary.

Thanks again,

dorry,

There is no doubt dealing with a child with ASD is something that as a parent you are dealing with every waking moment. Even if your child is having one of those “I’m typical” days you are anticipating for the other shoe to drop! I think this can really only be understood by parents dealing with a child with ASD.

WW has done an incredible job with our son and I know this has taken a toll on her as an individual and our marriage. We need to find a way to better balance this need to take care of our child while putting our marriage first. Sadly this has not been the case up to this point.

[/quote]
Side line, I am not sure what the qualifications are in the united states, but here in Canada, an autistic diagnosis qualifies for a wee bit of respite - have you looked into what breaks your wife can have away from her autistic son?[/quote]

Most of those programs have been dropped because of budget cuts. It’s really not so much the money as it is just finding someone qualified to deal with the ASD issues. This next week we are starting a summer program 2 days a week with support staff available for S7. In July and part of Aug he’ll go to full time summer school 3 days a week (mostly ASD children to work on social interaction).

Hopefully this will take some of the stress of WW. It was unfortunate that first week of NC also was the first week of no school with both kids at home full time…not an easy task even for someone not going through withdrawals.

Thanks for the encouragement, I’ll do my best to hang in there until true recovery can begin.

Shaden,

Thanks for your post. I’m doing a lot better today after a good night’s sleep and another day spent with my boys. Actually not a great night’s sleep as S4 crawled into bed with me and then proceeded to wet the bed. Oh well at least someone wanted to snuggle with me even if the result was I got peed on <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />!

Thanks for the analogy in regards to the phone card. It does put things into perspective. Looking back I’m kind of proud how I handled last night as I didn’t tee off on her, which is really what I felt like doing at the time. Keeping a calm head is generally my nature anyway but it did take something extra not to explode last night.

[/quote]
Give her space, love, patience, understanding and compassion. A rock doesn't hold onto her... it gives a strong, safe place for her to hold onto... she may flounder around in the water for awhile before she holds on, and she may let go occassionally as she fights and heals... but in the end, that is what you want... neither one of you should be holding onto the other... just holding each other.[/quote]

Thank you for this thought….this is what I’m going to fall asleep tonight thinking about.