This was stuck onto the bottom of my response to noodle, but it was meant for everyone who has taken the time to read all my long rants and explanations and justifications and excuses and everything else, and posted advice, anyway.

Can't tell you all how much I appreciate this board and all of your help!!

I would say [from my very limited perspective mind you] that what lacks in your Plan A ..is what is good for Ami.

Meeting ENs is great.
What about establishing [or discovering] personal boundaries?

What about keeping Ami healthy?

Your perspective seems [understandably] very hyperfocussed. Like you are looking for the key to the lock.

These issues are long ...sometimes lifelong issues in both partners..and they will not be resolved quickly. There is no right formula that you can utilize which will make things fall into place so that you can have your life back again.

Which is why I suggest a gameplan [..and I do think that a phone session with the master strategist would be worth every penny..because not only does he know from experience how to answer your questions wisely and with regard for your personal situation..he also knows which questions to ASK in order to gain insight into your situation, while we do our best here on the message boards..we are all shooting from the hip..answering with very little info...] specifically regarding the A..and then also..to take some time and invest in yourself..become a whole person independently of the marriage situation..you need to be prepared to be your own best friend for a while..and you can't do that if you are worn to rags.

Hey!

I had an idea..

Look up FIMs posts [faithinme]

I've lost track of her..don't know if she is still around..but she pulled off one of the best plan As I have ever seen. [OK..her plan Bs tended to hit the ground like a hefty bag full of soup..but in no way diminish her outstanding plan A ..also look up Bob Pures posts..LOTS and LOTS of great stuff in there..another excellent plan Aer]

That should give you a really good idea abour process and the ability to peek into the abyss so to speak..see how things worked..how people felt about what they were doing at the time..I think you'll find a lot of similarities with your own fears and such.

NO. Because just having it "widely known" means nothing except that it is being "widely" gossiped about. Gossip can be swept under the rug. The point is not to get the news out, but to expose to key people in the chain of command who have the most influence over these two.

Spreading gossip is not the point and will get you NOWHERE. NO ONE is going to act on some gossip they heard.

You also probably have enormous power over the OW that you don't know you possess. If she is employed by an outside company, they will not be happy to hear complaints about her MORAL TURPITUDE. I think a well timed letter to her HR depart might be very helpful.


That job is standing between you and your marriage. Of course, if he lost the job, it would be because of HIS ACTIONS, not yours. His company has a RIGHT to fire anyone they choose. And your H knew the risks when he chose to have a workplace affair.

He does not. He is running interference for your H.

Agree with ML..

Gossip is not the sort of exposure you are looking for.

Exposure that brings real life consequences is.

A consequence at work? Her work?

A consequence with family? His family?

With friends? At church if you attend?

There are places and people and relationships in his life that are meaninfull to him..that impact him..these are the target exposures.

Not sure where you are located, but some Law Enforcement Agencies look down upon extra marital affairs very badly. It has something to do with the integrity of the officer. In fact, one Sherriffs office in Fl will suspend officers if they are caught having an affair.

Unfortunately, I don't think this agency cares very much about infidelity.

There was another married guy at H's work who had a one-night-stand at a party last year with someone from the same agency, who was also married. Several months later, the girl said it was not consensual. That guy was investigated. The rape charges were proven to be unfounded (because she had told several peopole how wonderful that night had been and how she was hoping to start a relationship with him, and only changed her mind after her husband found out).

That guy ended up getting two days off for being as drunk as he was that night -- unbecoming off-duty-conduct. His wife was very pregnant at the time, but they did not care about the affair part of it. The girl was still with the agency for a long time afterwards, too. No consequences to her for having an affair, either.

Because of the potential criminal element of that case, everyone from the very top all the way down knew fully about the situation. But neither were so much as reprimanded for the A.

I think I will have to work pretty hard to get up the chain of command enough to make any difference. But that's exactly what I need to do, right?

I;m working on a letter right now. I will post it before I send it for suggestions. Any ideas on how to not come across as just vindictive and hateful?

Thanks.

I will start on that right now! Can you post links,or is there a way to search for their posts?

Thanks! I can use all the help and examples I can get.

Let them know what is going on. Tell them that you love your husband and desire to stay married. Ask them to help in any way they can.

So can anyone tell me what to do right this minute?
Stay here or go?

H is sleeping, has been all afternoon (he worked all night last night, then chaperoned our DD's school field trip until about 2:30, so he's overdue for sleep.)

Kids are tucked in bed and asleep ...

I was pretty clear about what to do this morning after I talked to x-boss -- go to friends house again tonight, make H do the work and choose and pick me.

But I think I'm hearing stay with Plan A from here, so that means stay here tonight?

Ugh!! I don't know why I can't make even the simplest decisions. I feel so stupid. For ALL of this.

Unless you are ready to further separate [ie plan B] stay in the house.

Hs boss is full of self serving ..well..you know what I think he's full of.

There is nothing weak about laying claim to your own home and your own marriage.

If you are in plan A..then you already know that you should stay.

Are you in plan A or not..and are you going to call SH to get a REAL PLAN?

oops..accidentally hit post when I wasn't ready..

ahem, where was I..

oh yes..coming over to perform duties and care for the children..then retreating ..makes you kind of convenient don't you think?

Plan A is not about being a convenient babysitter and maid service.

Plan A is also about H coming home to his WIFE who is now doing her best to fill that EN bank in any way he will let her even though he is also having an affair with a different woman.

ALLOW THAT DISCOMFORT TO EXIST even though you will be just as uncomfortable.

Thanks, noodle.

I will stay tonight. I have to get under some control right now because I don't want to be bawling and whimpering and begging if he wakes up, which he probably will soon.

I just sent an e-mail to try to get an apt. Hopefully they can schedule those quickly. I don't know how much more of this I can take.

We have a MC apt. on Wednesday. Do I confront him about this call? Do I just quit looking for calls and whatever other evidence comes up?

I just talked to a friend of mine, who grew up with me and lived with us, so she's like a sister. She works with H. She also said that going up the chain of command isn't likely to harm either of their jobs, but she didn't tell me NOT to, either. She said he'd probably get a verbal reprimand, and it would be about using company equipment (cell phone) and time to carry out personal activities. And she said that the OW isn't likely to be affected at all, unless they can prove that she used company equipment and time, too. I'm still working on the letter, but am having less confidence in what good it will do. It's going to the very biggest guy, and every senior person in his command chain, plus IA and HR, with copies to her supervisors and HR. If that doesn't get anywhere, I'll pull out the big guns and gather the evidence I have to start writing letters to all of the other law enforcement agencies, too.

I'm a little worried about just looking like a vindictive STBX trying to get back at him, but I'm a lot MORE worried about allowing this A to continue, so that wins.

I also tried to call that other wife tonight, but never could get ahold of her. And this isn't something you leave on an answering machine. I'll try again tomorrow.

Thanks for your help. glad you were up late and hanging around here!! I don't know what I'd do without the help from this board.

Thanks.

Well, survived last night, with the help of a sleeping pill, and the fact that H didn't wake up until early this morning.

Haven't had any real conversations with him yet, other than usual pleasantries and schedules, etc. He says he needs some "him" time, is thinking about taking a couple of days off so he can take off by himself and get his head straight.

Am I supposed to just keep Plan A-ing right through something like that? Just accept that he really will be alone and not with her? Or do I snoop and try to figure out what's going on?

Thanks.

What is he going to do on those days off? I would most definitely snoop because needing "space" is code for "need space to carry on my affair." Is he asking that you leave for those 2 days?

Ami,

The translation of "I need space" in the alien dictionary is this: "I need privacy to continue my affair". You need to confront him about what you know....that is Plan A TOO!!! Plan A is not about being "nice"...it's about being calm and willing to work on the marriage....very different from being "nice."

He isn't asking me to leave those two days, I think he plans on just going out in the desert and 4-wheeling or shooting or something. That's his usual recreation. He has appointments scatered through both of those days, so he can't go too far.

Is there really no chance it's legitimate that he really does just need to be able to breathe and think a little bit on his own, without everyone in his face and giving him advice, to make the decision about what he wants? You both said that "I need space" is code for wanting time for the affair ... I'm sure you're right. I just buy into the excuses so readily. My friend that I called last night said that he had said the same thing to her, that he just needed some time alone to get his head together and (his words) clear out all the fog. It's very possible that he assumes she is repeating back to me everything he says to her, so he could be just feeding her that line hoping it will get back to me to reinforce his excuses to me.

So ... do I ask him questions about where he's going to be, when, with who, etc.? And do I ask him to somehow prove to me that she won't be with him? I can't trust him to just say that she won't, so how would I know for sure? It seems like telling him he "CAN'T" go would be a selfish demand, controlling, etc.

And as far as confronting him about the call, calmly and in a productive way ... how does that happen? "I was looking through your cell phone and saw this...?" I think that would provoke a pretty hostile conversation. "It really hurts me that you've still been talking to OW..."? Not even give him a chance to deny it?

Thanks again for all your help. I don't think there's enough thanks in the entire world.

I gotcha! That means he is going to go get laid somewhere else while you watch his kids.

A person doens't need to leave to go "think." "Thinking" can be done anywhere. When a WS says this, they are actually going off to get laid.

Let him know you what you know, that you don't buy his "thinking" scheme and won't be available to babysit while he goes off to get laid.

p.s. if he needs a private place to go "think" direct him to the bathroom or the garage. But tell him you are not a fool and don't buy that he needs to go to the desert to "think." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

and if he wants to clear his head, it would help if he pulled it out of his [censored]. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

HA!!!! That's one of his favorite sayings, it's very amusing to think of it being turned aroudn on on him!

Thanks, that made me laugh right out loud!!