I'm not to say bc everyone is different but believe you should definitely confront but think it out first. I immediately went & yelled at my H who was still asleep in bed. That really helped our situation!!!!!!

The next time I found her number on his phone (a couple of months later after we had been romancing in Cabo), I waited and then asked him specifically if there had been any further contact. That is when he looked me straight in the eye and lied again. I still have problems with that one but since I found MB and began reading up on everyones situation and the ways of WWS (lies, lies, deceit, fog, etc)
I am understanding more & more. I am much more calm about it now but those early stages were pure he**. I didn't think I would ever live through it. Stay focused on the result and when/if you get sidetraked, quickly get your mind on something else quick. Make yourself, it will work. IMO with all you've written he loves you & doesn't want to lose you, he just hasn't figured it out yet. You have the ammo to stay a few steps ahead of his emotions.

You can do it.

Ok, MC did not go ANYTHING like what I had expected. So I need some bulls#!t detectors to tell me if I'm just getting sucked in by lies or what, here.

I expected H to get ticked about me snooping on his cell and asking about the phone call, and calling x-boss, etc. Nope. He was ok with ALL of that. He explained the call, and HAD IT RECORDED, let me listen to it, and showed me how to access the recordings of calls that come in and out of his phone!

He has ALREADY gone up his chain of command and told them what was going on, and that I had been really worried about the NC thing, but short of quitting, what could he do? They set it up so that any calls in or out of his phone that are to or from dispatch or any of her numbers or any unknown numbers will go through some kind of console and be recorded. He can't turn it on or off or delete any recordings, only his sgt. can. It was a pretty novel thing, and people got excited about the possibility of it, so the news went all the way up the tree to the captain and beyond. I asked why x-boss wouldn't have told me about it, and he said he didn't know. He said x-boss gave me really bad advice, and he really didn't want me back out of the house, he wants us to be together and work on things.

So my little exposure letters will be a little bit late, I think. After he told me all that and showed me all this documentation that he had (we logged in to his e-mail from the counselor's office), I told him about the letters. He was not mad about those, just said that he was so sorry that I thought I had to take it that far, and he wished I had talked to him first and that he could have shown me all of this earlier.

We talked about NC, and how much it bothered me that she was still "waiting in the wings". He said he can't even stomach the thought of her, that she knows he is absolutely done, and he doesn't want anything to do with her "but I can't exactly kill her." He said he doesn't see any other way around having "professional contact" but that he'd put all these extreme measures in place to prevent any problems.

I brought up the possibility of us moving, then, and he was actually very open to that idea. So we're going to start looking at places we'd want to move.

He wasn't defensive, didn't get mad, didn't try to blame me or give me a big guilt trip. I think he was being honest -- I mean, I got to listen to the call, and it was exactly what he had said (regarding one of H's co-workers and things from the previous shift).

He said that he was really sorry that the call had bothered me so much, that he wished I had come to HIM right away about it, instead of calling x-boss and getting myself so worked up and upset, etc.

We talked about the fact that I am not at all good at confrontation, and never have been. He said he'd much rather me start standing my ground more and challenging him more and confronting whenever I needed it. I've always had this fear of making him mad if I did that, so I always "picked my battles" very carefully (meaning that I almost always roll over and become a doormat). He said "so what if I do get mad? Are you afraid that I will do something? Hurt you? Why is it so bad to make me mad?" And I said I thought he'd LEAVE, and he said, no, he's here to stay. And he wants me to start standing up for myself.

I'm great at that at work, but never have been with him. I'm going to start working on that.

So ... emotion rollercoaster at the moment is much better ... but I've already proven that I'm pretty good at grasping at straws that aren't really there.

So what warning signs am I missing? Is he blowing smoke or do we really have a chance here?

Also wanted to update on a couple of other things that had been hanging out there, since you all have been so patient about reading all my ranting...

DD is out of school the rest of the week, so H's "alone time" is really turning out to be "daddy/daughter" time, and he's happy with that. They are going out in the desert and ATV'ing and shooting together.

Also, I got an appointment with SH on Friday morning. I think it was noodle who said I needed him to help me work the kinks out of my Plan A.

Ami, is it possible that your H is reading your posts here?

I don't think so, I only told him about this website today, and he's not a big computer fan, so I don't think he'd have found it on his own. Also, the first e-mails from his sgt. and cpl about the recording system were about two weeks old, from just after the MC session we had where he agreed to tell me about any contact he had with her.

It took a while to actually get set up, but there was a "go-live" e-mail in there from the phone tech guy on the 5th.

My H is not very tech savvy at all, I don't think he could have manufactured all of that. He had a hard time just figuring out how to log in to his e-mail from outside, and he did it right there and then, so it's not like he had a chance to go make changes first, and then bring home print-outs or anything.

I suppose anything is possible, though.... maybe I need to change my name and take details out of my posts? Not that it would help much now if he's already been reading.

I really don't think that he has been, though. He seemed really genuinely surprised when I brought everything up -- he thought things had been going great.

ML....you are such a sweet Texas tigress....protecting cubs. I can see the little cogs of your brain going round and round. (beware! If something sounds too good to be true....it usually is!) Ami....be careful....Mel has good instincts....but if all this is true, and right now, it's looking pretty good....it's really very good news and very encouraging. I send my hopes and prayers your way!!

starfish, you are reading my mind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ami, did you actually SEE the emails telling his supervisors about his affair? And why did he not tell you this before?

So now you have nothing to worry about you, do you? Since supposedly they already know about the affair, this will be no surprise! Nothing lost!

Secondly, he still has to leave this job. So don't settle for "professional" contact. Contact is contact. That would be like giving an alcoholic drinks, calling them "professional" and then wondering why the alkie never recovered! As my friend, frozen, would say: DER!!! [aka DUH!]

He will never withdraw from her as long as there is ANY CONTACT.

Other than that, just keep your eyes peeled. None of this smells right to me.

And why did he tell you before he needed to go to the desert to "think?" Today the story is that it is a father-daughter deal?? Might I suggest that you go with him?

LOL....nah....great minds think alike chere!! This is just wrapped up so sweetly with a big red bow and everything.....brings to mind the Trojan Horse!! hahahahahha

Tread lightly Ami....like you....I WANT to believe this. In and of itself, that's enough to raise my radar. Be careful not to accept everything a WS says at face value and to examine your own need to believe what you want to believe.

Now....I'm not trying to rain on your parade....because like I said....if this is true....WOW....but I am asking you to be wary and protective.

(((((((((((((((Ami)))))))))))))))

Ami, truer words were never spoken! TALK IS CHEAP with a WS. You cannot believe anything he TELLS YOU, rather you must rely on his actions and what you INDEPENDENTLY VERIFY. BELIEVE NOTHING WITHOUT ABSOLUTE PROOF!

Yeah..

I'm gonna admit that my bullsh*t-O-meter has been going off as well.

Most of these things sound very promising.

Verify independently.

In fact..just go ahead and be straightforward about it.

He is sorry that you didn't come to him first?

Tell him that you are sorry that he has put you in a position of not being able to trust him.

Tell him that for a period of time..until trust has been rebuilt..he should EXPECT that he will not be trusted..that your first choice would be for HIM to carry the ball and bring the information in it's complete state to YOU..but failing that..you will have to seek independent verification for his claims on your own.

If HE had come to YOU and said..OW contacted me..here is the time and contents of that contact..there would be a LOT less room for speculation.

If he HAD made arrangements with his superior officers..why not tell you about it?

The assertions that he is making..are not congruent with his behavior and previous assertions as recently as a few days ago..that doesn't make them false..it just makes them questionable.

You SO MUCH want to believe what he tells you when it sounds good..nothing wrong with that..just remember that this makes you VERY easy to deceive.

He is still notbeing completely transparent..not putting forth info until pressed..his reactions are ....iffy.

Eyes open, ears shut.

BTW..

In the military..adultery is a CRIME. Seriously.

It sounds as though your H is military..disregard if not.

Soooo..I'm suprised that no one has informed you of your rights as far as taking legal action.

Sounds fishy.

It does seem awfully convenient, which is why I was asking for some smoke detection.

There were not e-mails telling about the affair, he said he did that in person. The e-mails were about setting up the recording system. They do not specifically say "affair", but several mentioned OW by name, and there was an official one to both of them, with the Captain coppied, notifying them that conversations, text messages and e-mails between them will be recorded and reviewed by both her supervisor and his sgt. for any "inappropriate or unprofessional content." One e-mail from the cpl. (the lowest level above H) said something to the effect of "still can't see how you could mess around with (OW)...", and there was another one from the sgt. that talked about how H had really screwed up, but the sgt. liked having the excuse to play with the phone technology.

So I was pretty bought in to them really knowing what was going on. Either way, they will still get the letters. I probably should not have told him about the letters, but after he told me all of this, and showed me everything, I was pretty convinced.

He was surprised when I asked why he hadn't told me all of this before, he said "I told you I had an accountability system set up." Yeah, some more detail would have been nice!

He did still want to go out in the desert to "think", but we had both forgotten about DD's school schedule (she's out for the rest of the week). I asked if he was going to find a sitter, and he said no, that he would just take her with him. He didn't seem like it was a problem for him at all.


As I read back through all of that, it sure sounds like a lot of really convenient excuses. You're right, it does smell fishy, but I want so badly to buy into it all. He was so damn sincere at the MC appointment, always looking me in the eyes, holding my hand, not defensive, willing to move to get out of this job and town where she is...

I really WANT to buy into it, I think I will need lots of smoke detectors to help me keep my eyes open for a while....

Why didn't he tell you sooner?

What else do you need from him to feel more secure? Need to see his phone bill and calls made and received? What else?

He's not military, he's in law enforcement.
And up until now, his particular agency hasn't shown much interest in addressing adultery issues. I think the only reason there has been any action this time might be because the employee asked for it, and not the employee's spouse.

But you're right, I'm in an easily decievable state right now....

Ami, the "going to the desert to think" thing is bogus. I would figure out a way to find out what he is really doing. This is all way too pat. I smell a rat.

And how can he "think" in the desert if he has his daughter with him? Why can't he go "think" in the bathroom or the garage? Does his mind not work in your house? What does he need to "think" about?

Thanks, Mel.

This is the one thing that really isn't seeming at all fishy or "convenient" to me, and does seem very much in-character with my H. Especially now with DD in tow, I think this is the one thing that I can really buy into. It's very characteristic of him, even way, way before the A, even before we were married. He hates being cooped up in the house, and regularly takes the ATV's (and usually all of us, or a couple of the guys, or whatever) out to play in the desert. It's a normal release for him.

And DD is 10, and VERY talkative. She tells everyone about every minute of her life, in great detail. If there was anything going on out in the desert other than just 4-wheeling and shooting, or if they see anyone out there or he talks to anyone on the phone ... I have no doubt that I will get a full report of the day's activity. :-) That kid has no idea how to keep a secret.

Let's put it this way.

The lack of transparency..the habit of excluding you from the process of protecting yourself and your marriage together..makes his approach a no go..but it doesn't necessarily make it ill intended.

I just have a squicky feeling about this..especially as this OW is indeed the village bicycle..obviously the work environment is fertile ground for affair behavior.

It helps in a short term sort of way that he has set up some accountability..but it STILL DOES NOT make NC the impassable chasm it is meant to be.

It is very promising that he seems willing to move..don't toss the baby with the bath water..if he is moving in a positive direction..wonderfull, it's good news..just maintain your judgement and enforce healthy boundaries. Don't be suprised by the backswing.

The two of you need a PLAN for recovery.

Talk to SH about it when you have your appt. He can assist in setting things up better than anyone here. He can help you get really specific and get you both on the same page.

I can understand going out to have fun, but that is not what he said, Ami!

He said he was going to the desert to "think!" That is CODE for going off to have some fun with my OP!

What is he going to do with a 10 yr old in the desert while he is "thinking?" Is there a reason he wouldn't take you?

Well, heard from H's work last week. It's confirmed that he had exposed there already, that all the recording stuff, etc. is already in place, and that nothing was going to happen to his job or to hers.

In fact, he is in line for a promotion, and this is hodling no weight in the decision. The promotion is expected to be signed off on by the captain this week.

H is not (or at least says he's not) mad about the letters. He feels like the recording system, and having told everyone, and everything else he has done is in line with taking "extraordinary precautions" to avoid any contact with OW. The promotion will change his shift a little bit, so the times that they are both working will be minimal. There will still be one or two days a week, for about 2 hours at a time that she will be his dispatcher -- which means she'll give him calls over the radio, that every other emergency person within 500 miles can also hear. There won't be a time that he actually has to go to dispatch, and if there are ever calls that have to be handled by phone with dispatch while she's working (sometimes they don't like to air some information over the radio), then there are three other people on his crew who are assigned to make the calls for him. Plus all of his calls to and from dispatch are recorded.

H thinks that this is enough, that it's extraordinary precautions and that it's essentially the same as NC. I'm easily sucked in to his argument, it does seem like extraordinary precautions, and getting sent to an address by a disembodied, faceless voice on a radio doesn't seem too threatening to me. Am I downplaying that threat? I wonder about how vigilant everyone will be after a while, though. Will the supervisors still be checking the recordings in three months? Will the accountability buddies still be making all of his calls for him to dispatch? How long will these extraordinary precautions stay in place? And will just hearing her voice on the radio be enough to send him back into Withdrawl from her over and over again for forever?

We're still considering a move, have updated his resume and put out feelers to friends of his in three different agencies. It takes a very long time to change jobs in his field. But he's still willing to look at it.


In the meantime, we took a family vacation this weekend and had SO much fun. Had all kinds of problems with the hotels and getting lost and other typical ridiculous stuff, but still had a GREAT time and laughed and played and really connected well as a family. It was nice. Hated to come back home and go back to work today!