Good, let him wonder where you are and what fun stuff you may be up to. It will eat him up.

CC, you sound better than a few days ago when your WH broke your Plan B. What wiil you be doing to ensure he doesn't try the same thing this weekend?

Since he was away this week he is going to take the kids out to dinner Sat night. I will have the kids call and find out exactly when he is coming down, I have plans to go out with a gf while he has them. I will have the kids call me when they are back home and he is gone.

I need advice...I know the weekend is slow but I'm hoping somebody can help me.

WH agrees to my plan B conditions!!
He was suppose to come and see the kids at 3 PM today....instead he shows up at noon!@#^%* He starts working on things like the mower and etc...being very nice and talkative...uuugghhh!

I figured plan B was already broken for the day so I asked if he read the letter I gave him. He said that he did. I asked if he understood he said he did. Then apologized for coming without calling. That he would leave if I wanted him to. I told him that I could not be "friends" with him that I had too much feeling for him.

We talked for about 2 hrs. He asked me for a key to the new lock I said NO. He said he missed talking to me and picked uup the phone a hundred times but didn't call out of respect for my wishes. He said he misses me and wants to spend time with me. I told him that was NOT POSSIBLE if he were still in contact w/ OW. He said he has not seen or spoken to her in months but she occassionally IM's him. I told him that was not acceptable. He communicates w/ me or w/ her on this point there was NO negotiation. HE AGREED.

I told him that this was not a ticket home that was still way down the road. He said he just wishes this would all go away and we could start over. I told him that I could not/ would not ignore what has happened that we need to work through it. I told him if he agreed to my conditions in the letter that could start a conversation.The first step.

Did I do the right thing??? Whats next??

Oh ChaCha, I so hope he is being sincere. I don't have any advice to give but I'm sure someone will be along soon. Goodluck and I can't wait to hear how it goes.

See if he will write a no contact letter. If he says it is pointless, let him know that it is something you need to feel safe.

Then tell him that you CAN start all over, but it will be a much better marriage. He needs to know that this won't be thrown in his face forever. On the other hand, you will need to thoroughly discuss the affair and reasons for it.

I have my fingers crossed for you. I hope he agrees to the NC letter.

Let us know!

It was naughty of him coming over w/out calling though. He pulled you out of Plan B again.

Kim

I agree with Believer. If he doesn't write the NC Letter..go dark again...

Also, though, its Ok to let him know that you can start all over again.

In fact, that's what you will have to do during Recovery...the marriage that you once had no longer exists..both you and him are different people now...

Thanks guys! I hope this is sincere...I'm cautious. I don't want to move too fast. I made it very clear I was not ready for him to come home...he agreed. I was thinking I should just lay low and see what he does. I do not want to appear eager.

I believe a NC letter is ESSENTIAL. How soon do I ask for it? He refused it the last time around. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Oh I forgot...he kissed me and it seemed VERY sincere.

I had a dream about the NC thing last night.

In the dream I wouldn't go out with him until he established No Contact w/ OW. He said that she was IM'ing him but he didn't respond. I said that wasn't good enough. Next day he said when she IM'ed responded....stop contacting me. She continued. I said it still wasn't good enough. Next day he told me he left a message on her cell phone to stop contacting him and that just doubled her efforts. He wanted to just ignore her and maybe she would stop. I said thats not good enough.
The next day he asked for my help. I suggested he write the no contact letter and we send a copy to her and OWH. We did. She still continued to contact him. Then I told him to forward any communication from her, he did...I responded w/ a letter that basically called her a stalker and a pathetic loser and proceeded to forward it to her and everyone else in my address book.

Then there was somehting about St. Patty's Day and my DS13 was driving while WH sat in the back w/green beer.

Still looking for advice on how to proceed.

Sorry, Cha-Cha. I hope I am wrong..but think you have goofed. This seems to have been a MAJOR BREAK in PLAN B which just might have served to enable the affair.

So, in my opinion, if you just LAY LOW, you will be either laying there for awhile OR you're looking at another long round of cake-eating..with him saying, "I'm ending it..give me time, etc. BEEN THERE DONE THAT...

He has to experience your TOUGHNESS about this. You have to gain his RESPECT. He has to BELIEVE that you are dead serious about moving on without him unless he ends his affair FOR LIFE.

So I would suggest another NO CONTACT LETTER TODAY. Telling him that you made a mistake..that you will have no more contact with him UNTIL he agrees to WRITE A NO CONTACT LETTER...

Then, he actually SHOULD come back home because he will need your assistance in maintaining NO CONTACT from her..That is the process of recovery...spending lots and lots of time with your FWH...

The NC LETTER was supposed have come FIRST..before the kissing..before even thinking that he may be serious. That's why I think that this was a major goof..too much meeting of his needs..relieving him of his pain...the WS needs to come home at his bottom..SUFFERING...

Otherwise you are putting up with his cake-eating...and a high likelihood of a FALSE RECOVERY...

You want him to be repentant and hurt..feeling emotionally wounded...

When he is serious, needing relief from his emotional pain, he will be more than willing to do ALL that you want...

For the NEW PLAN B..DARK..DARK...DARK...

mimi,
I think you may be right. This is why I ask for help. I made it VERY CLEAR no contact was a deal breaker.

Here is where I need clarification. I thought it should be his job to come up w/ a plan for that. That forcing him to write the letter was not a good thing. I stated my boundary he has to figure out how to comply with it. That after he agreed to terms of plan B we start negotiations for his return home. I thought I should wait for consistant actions to earn his way home. He came home way too soon last time...I don't want to make that mistake again.

Maybe if I understood the way the squence of events should happen. I know mileage may differ but basically....

Dysfunction in M, MLC etc>>>Affair he!!>>>Plan A>>>Exposure>>>more plan A>>>WS leaves>>>strong PlanA>>>Plan B & Plan B letter w/ conditions for communication>>>WS agrees>>?? WS does NC letter>?>WS proposes a plan for recovery>>? BS agrees or counter proposes>>?start to spend time together for LB+>>?start MC>>?WS consistant actions earns ticket home>>>recovery begins.

As I said before this is uncharted territory for me. I want to do this the "right" way. I don't want a yo-yo life for the kids w/ WS in and out. That was why I thought I should wait for his actions to speak.

I really appreciat your time and advice!

Plan B letter condition should have been agreement to do a NC Letter. Do not break Plan B, meaning STAY DARK until this is done or he is clearly willing to do so..make a declaration in writing to the OW that he will cease contact with her for life.

No..nowhere is it stated to wait for consistent actions for him to return home. The Harleys make it very clear that Recovery requires EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS against contact, best done with the assistance of the BS....even recommending that the couple go on a vacation together in early recovery...

I think it's best for you to SPELL OUT to him LOUD AND CLEAR...the need for him not to contact you anymore until he has a NC LETTER in hand or agrees to sit down and write one with you.

After the letter is sent and he agrees to the EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS then he can come home.

I copied and pasted this information on Leslie's thread. We have followed it to a T during this Recovery.

ChaCha

MiMi, Longhorn and so many others have give me such great advice. By following their suggestions, I was told to "expose" which I did and it got the desired results. H has written the NC letter, I mailed it, as far as I can tell so far he has NOT seen the OW again. I haven't been able yet to find out if they are still in contact via e-mail or IM's yet though. H has moved home even though still in a fog. However he has taken several baby steps in our marriage. We are in MC.

Last night I was in a strange mood and asked H if he thought we would make it. He said Yes.

Anyway, just wanted to say keep listening and following what they suggest. Sometimes I found I had to question what they said but when I did so, my questions were answered. Often times I felt like I was being slapped on the hand by them when actually they should have been knocking me upside the head.

Hang in there ChaCha.

cc,

Plan B means meeting NONE of WS ENs...NONE. Please stay dark until your WH shows he is committed to NC with OW and giving your M 100% effort.

Do you remember what happened to Shattered when her WH made a half hearted attempt to reconcile.

Your WH will have more respect for you if you show him you are serious by sticking to a very dark Plan B. If he knows he can break you down by throwing crumbs your way he will continue this pattern as long as he can.

Listen to mimi...she has been through all this before.

I'm praying for you CC. I have a feeling the MB trend is turning towards reconciliations like I posted on MWIL thread. I want you to make it three after dazed and MWIL.

mimi,
Thank you for hanging in here with me...I am listening and learning. I think I will also contact SH again its been about 6 months since I last spoke w/ him.

There has been no contact w/ WH today. I will continue as I have been but hopefully DARKER. I did leave him w/ a clear message of NC...though I did not ask him for the NC letter. I did tell him yesterday that he has spent the last 2 years telling me he didn't have feelings for me...that he was going to have to show me he is serious. Establishing NC w/OW was non-negotiable...it was the first step.

The 1st week of July my kids are scheduled to go stay w/ younger BIL and his family. Leaving July 4th for WH and I to spend together if things work out that way. The next week I am on vacation. So the 1st 2 weeks in July we have potential to spend a lot of time together.

Leslie thanks for your support I started reading your thread this morning after mimi mentioned it.

HTW its great to hear from you. I guess its... that I've done w/o any effort from WH in so long that when he shows some I'm a sucker for it. For him to admit that he misses me, misses being home, wants to build a future and is willing to stop contact w/ OW and work on our M...its what I've been wanting to hear for sooo long. But I know they are only words. I know the thing he probably misses most is control.

The more I think about it you are right yesterday's visit was pure manipulation. From telling me he would pick the kids up at one time and show up 3 hrs early to tossing crumbs of agreeing to NC. It was a power play for control. Which I fell for....again.

Hopefully those following me in plan B can learn from my mistakes.

I have learned that:
plan B is making him uncomfortable and he doesn't like it.
When I don't have contact with him I am more confident and at peace.
I do still love him (I had started to doubt that).
I am stronger than I give myself credit for.
WH knows me well and how to appeal to my weaknesses.

He called and talked to the kids tonight, I went outside and visited w/ a neighbor. So no contact today w/ him today.
I guess I'm just gonna have to do it one day at a time...one hour at a time. I'm thinking I should just go dark. Last year I told him about the NC letter. I restated my boundary for NC w/ OW. He is a smart man I think he will figure it out.

I'm going to bed and re-read SAA.
Don't give up on me guys...I need you.

Hi Cha-Cha -

I like your list of what you have learned so far from Plan B. Seems like I keep falling for the same trickery myself.

You hang in there ---- I'll try to do likewise.

Kim

Last year?

That's a LONG TIME ago for a WS...

I think you need to spell this out again if it's been that long.

Did you do a recent PLAN B LETTER?

If not, you do need to do a new one. He needs to be able to read your conditions in BLACK AND WHITE and to be able to refer back to what is written. My H would quote back the letter that I wrote to him when he was working on coming back to me.


Of course, you need to STAY DARK..DARK...DARK..with all lights out!!!

Your H will definitely miss you...

What happened last night was also about CAKE-EATING...getting his needs met by you...

REMEMBER: THE TASTE OF CAKE (you) ENABLES AND PROLONGS HIS AFFAIR!!!

ChaCha,

It is hard, noones going to give up on you. I know I probably don't have any right to give advice b/c I am a plan B virgin but just keep your goal in mind. Don't let him back in even a teensy tiny bit until he has that NC letter in hand or he is ready to sit down that minute and write it with you. I think when he is sincere you will know, there will be no doubts, no questions. You will know b/c he will make sure you know. He will give you more than a crumb.

I made it clear to my WH that he is not to contact me unless he is ready to move home and have no contact with OW. So unless he shows up at the door with his bags packed or forwards me a copy of his notice on his apt. then I have no need to even discuss anything with him.

Set your boundaries in your mind and don't let go of them. Everytime you do you are letting your WH know that he does not have to do any work.

Imagine him having a good laugh to himself everytime he manipulates you into breaking your plan B. Keep this image in your head when he tries to manipulate you again.

Ok...1 last post then I'm going to bed....REALLY!

Mimi...He left briefly March 2005 about a month after d-day, he wanted to come home the next day before I ever got to plan B. I told him at that time I needed NC w/ OW and I wanted him to write a NC letter, at first he agreed. He promised the moon and the stars, he cried and begged and seemed remorseful. I let him come home...soon his tune changed. No regrets....refused to do NC letter because he thought it was "a silly piece of paper."

Now I think if I had stuck to my guns then we would be a year into recovery now....but I didn't....I was so sure he meant it. So anyway here we are. This is the plan B letter I gave him 5/25/06. It does not specifically ask for a NC letter....stupid omission.

M,
These are dark and confusing times we are going through. We are on a path that I never imagined we would take. Over the years our paths have strayed. I look back at where we came from and I can see some of the signs we missed along the way.

I am so sorry that I took your love for granted. I didn't take the time to show you how much I appreciated you. I wish I had really listened to what you were trying to tell me and that I made myself understood. We didn't make our marriage a priority, which allowed you to bond to OW.

Now we need to choose a new direction, which is why we decided to separate, to take the time and think about what we really want. The path I choose is one of forgiveness , love, compassion, discovery and laughter. I would like you to join me on this path. I’m sure we will have challenges along the way but, I believe with our combined strengths we can reach new heights.

To join me there can be no contact of any kind with OW...ever .I need you to commit to make me, our marriage and our family a priority. Until that time I cannot have contact with you.

You can email me w/ financial concerns and scheduling time w/ the kids. You and the kids can communicate freely. I have attached a copy of our separation agreement and the budget. Any other issues you can contact me through Sandy.

I know that you do not intend to hurt me but our interactions do just that. My feelings for you run deep, I want you to be my husband anything less then that tears a piece of my heart. This separation is protecting my love for you in hope that you will choose the same path to continue our journey together.

Please respect my wishes and know that I want only good things for us .

I love you.
K

I really am going to bed now. Sleep well all you are in my prayers. Thanks again for all your support and guidance.