Despite all the encouragement I get from everyone here (all the recent success stories we hear about and just the good ole support) as well as the statistics I read from all the "experts" (in the 15 books I've read so far on infidelity), my spirits have dampened to the point where I feel like throwing in the towel.<P>W's attorney sent me a letter stating that W still wants divorce. There was a month long lull which I (wrongly) interpreted as perhaps W was reconsidering. This was not so. Attorney requested 401(k) statments, mortgage records and pension plan records. Apparently, ripping out my heart and stepping on it was not enough for my W...the crowning touch will be to ruin me financially as well. In MN, there is NOTHING I can do to stop it.<P>This afternoon, I was optimistic as a result of your many encouraging posts. It seems that whenever I even start to feel OK, something comes along to kick me back down into the pit.<P>I think I may be at my breaking point. As much as I want my W back, I don't see it happening. I must face reality and deal with it. I hate living like this...it's been 4 months and I'm so lonely and devastated while W is living the life of Riley. People say that what goes around comes around...I just don't see it. I don't see her crashing and burning. I will be out of the picture before that happens. If so, I will move on, I won't look back. Too much damage will have been done by that time. I feel my love fading fast, why doesn't the pain abate as well?<P>I don't think I'll feel better in the morning. During the entire 4 months of hell I've been in, I have NEVER seen ANY indications that this will end. Please don't think I'm comparing situations with anyone here on the forum or anything but the fact that my W betrayed, abandoned AND is in the process of divorcing me I feel my case is on the extreme end. It is too much for me to bear. I always thought I was a strong person...no...this has certainly kicked my [censored].<P>I don't know what to do. I don't know how long I will feel this way. Will I be bitter toward women in the future? Will I allow a woman to get close to me? How much longer will I have to endure this excruciating loneliness? I really hurt tonight. I used to love weekends, now I hate them with a passion.<P>God forgive me for my sins and protect me from the hurt I feel. I know God is with me...why can't I feel Him?

Oh, Shattered,<P>My heart aches for you. I am so sorry. I wish I knew what to say. Have you had any contact with her? Are you Plan Bing? I gave my h the plan B letter tonight and he throw is on the floor. He read it later, but it is so hard. It hurts so deep that the one YOU love, loves anyother.<BR>Don't give up. Like you said, God is on your side. Whatever happens in your marriage, God will not leave you.<BR>I was sharing my situation with a guy I work with (very Christian man) and he told me to read about Job. He said that it is a very inspirational book of the bible. I don't know how familiar you are with the bible, but I intend to read it this weekend.<BR>I know how you feel. I have been digging out papers all week. W2, paystubs, tax returns, IRAs (my h told his atty that I WOULD BE HAPPY TO TAKE CARE OF THE PAPERWORK-AAAARRRRRGGGG!!!!!) I told my h that I really think this should be his job, since he is the one so adement on this divorce.<BR>LaLa land may seem like the life of Riley to you, but I believe that God is working behind the scenes. Things may appear to be paradise, but I really doubt they are. Don't let your imagination run away. You are probably making this relationship a lot better in your mind than it really is. I keep thinking back to when life was really good w/ h. And you know what? It was nice, but it certainly wasn't paradise. It may have been for a brief time, before we began to relax and become comfortable with each other. <BR>This kind of passion burns quickly. It's like lighting newpapers. It is VERY hot for a while, but you end up with ashes.<BR>Mayb you should send her a Plan B letter. I don't think it will hurt anything-she appears not to be contacting you anyway, and it will give you the chance to tell her how you still feel.<BR>Just know I'm here for you. You can e-mail me if you'd like. CC7315@yahoo.com<P>Try and relax (i know it's hell) but the sooner you ( and I!!) can take care of ourselves the stronger we will be when your world crumbles.<P>Cheryl

shattered 1,<P>I've been following your posts. I know you are a believer. <P>What does falling off mean? Does it mean no contact, starting to date, what?<P>I think there is no way around what you are feeling, except to dig down within yourself and know that God is there with you, and lean on him.<P>Have you ever read the analogy story "On Hinds Feet"? Its a story about how God uses certain things in our lives to "promote" us to the top of the mountain. Very moving, very spiritual.<P>I live in MN too. Not a community property state, but a marital property state. <P>You please take care. Saying prayers for you, that you will once again, soon, feel God in your life, holding you up with his right hand.<P>God Bless You with his Peace and Love.<BR>M4B

Shattered1:<P>I'm sorry for this turn in events. It does hurt when our expectations get ahead of reality. One of the tricks to this game is to expect as little as possible, then you don't fall as hard. I can tell you from experience, though, that your current "down-ness" is very likely to pass in a few days.<P>One of the hard things for me to come to realize is that we really have very few alternatives, as long as we still love our spouses. I kept thinking that things would be easier if "the decision" was made. When I went to Plan B, I thought "great, I took an action. Something will change." When I returned to Plan A after 5 months I thought "OK, now I'm doing something active. Something will change." Then, when I forced an our relationship conversation with my husband I thought "good. A decision will be made tonight". NONE OF THESE THINGS HELPED ME.<P>See, here's the rub. No matter what action is taken, what words are spoken, or what is decided (for the moment), I still love the guy (and you still love your wife). The decision doesn't stop that. You can't "end this and go on with your life" just based on some words or some action she or you take.<P>They're going to do what they're going to do when they want to do it (what a sentence, but you get my point). You can only take care of yourself and that is what you must do. Try to detach somewhat from your wife's drama and create a lifestory of your own (no other relationships though). You can do it and it will make you feel better about this time period. You'll be able to hold on longer. And when you stop loving your wife (if this goes on that long), you'll want to end things yourself without feeling major pain.<P>Go back to the books (I've read many of mine 3+ times). 6 - 12 months from exposure for affair to end 75% of the time. Almost all infidels come back if you wait long enough. Your case IS NOT different. Read the stories, they all sound similar.<P>Best of luck and keep the faith.

Shattered,<BR>Hang in there man ! I went thru the same exact thing! I spent 3 months trying to raise my kids by myself. I couldn't watch TV for 4 months. MEanwhile the wife was going to the movies and concerts with the om. I really got to hate weekends. I had so much resentment built up that when I did talk to her it was major love busters.<BR>The key for me I feel was deciding that she wanted the divorce, so I was going to prepare myself for life without her. I started going to a surviving a divorce workshop, kept going to counseling to work on my problems so in the event of a new relationship, it would have a better chance.<BR>I decided to to basically give up on my w except for trying to get her to take some responsibility to see the kids. she only saw them when om was at work, she never made any attempts to take them when he was around.<BR>I was all set for divorce, my counselor said I was in good shape, and I was in better shape than a majority of the people in my divorce workshop.<BR>I had been praying for my situation and my wife, not that she would change and come back but that she would she what she had done and look for forgiveness from the Lord.<BR>You can only imagine my suprise when she called me last Sun and told me om had dumped her.<BR>It hasn't been any easier as I don't trust her. She sampled the single life, will she want that now. She didn't come back begging for forgiveness, she has appologized, but is not as beaten down as I thought. That scares me too. I'm still not certain I ready for her to move back in just yet, and neither is she. I plan to take it a day at a time.<BR>You must do the same! You must take care of you. Find an old hobby or sport that you gave up and start it up again or find something new and fun to do. It does you no good to be beating yourself up over your w. There is nothing you can do to change her. It just takes for the affair to run its course. I don't know if the om in your case has a boss, how about a letter to him telling him about his subordinate. Most people advise against taking action like that but if your w wnats out she will be going anyhow.<BR>Also get yourself a lawyer to protect yourself financially. Check divorce.net for laws in your state.<BR>Just hang in there and post here when you are angry or resentful. <BR>Keep praying, God can work miracles. I'll be praying for you too!<BR>Bob

shattered, I second all the thoughts about hanging in there and feeling your pain. This down phase will also pass...it has happened to me also...and we are the timing brothers remember. Our wives started their affairs (emotional/then physical) in late June. Just yesterday I went to see my lawyer about possible sole custody case for me. She said wife has not proven to be unfit in the eyes of the court even by her moral decisions or lousy actions. She is still active in daughter's life and up until now affair had been primary caregiver (she works PT). Plus if I wanted to file she would contest and we are talking $60g. That really floored my thoughts. I really want to have my daughter more than half time and also to keep her away from the affair situation and the [censored]/wankboy (thank K, for that one). So now even though I had been preparing myself like RWD for the moving on, bettering myself, live without her stage, I think I will Plan A til the end of Nov at least. That will be 5 mths. After that plan B will be easier for us because the pain will become duller if we do not have to deal with betrayer wife. I also do believe we have to give this 6 mth magic mark a chance. BTW, I also think we think their affair relationship is super for them and probably in reality is less than for them. I even read somewhere, just maybe in our cases it's true, in most affairs women get involved in,they do it more for the emotional attachment/feelings and not because of great physical sex or acrobatic sex all the time. I think I have even given those images more credit than they may actually be. Remember temporary insanity is reality in these cases....Hang in there.

Shattered1,<P>Yeah, I KNOW what it‘s like. You feel so low, you’d have to stand on stilts to touch the white line on the road! Been there, done that.<P>Everyone says it gets better with time. It does, I promise. I’m there. Sure it still hurts, but I’m not drowning myself in tears everyday, I don’t even feel bad most of the time. Think about it. What is the best thing you can do for yourself & the situation right now? Don’t fall apart & don’t give up. I work with a guy. Found out his wife was having an affair. We talked quite a bit. She denied it & still does. About four weeks after he found out, she filed for divorce. They went through a very rough four months. She called the cops on him 4 times and he had to leave the house for three days each time. They had each spent about $3500 on lawyers. They were supposed to go to mediation a few weeks ago & she called off the divorce. Go figure. Totally blew this guys mind.<P>My point is, when you think it can’t get any worse, it will. When you think it‘ll never get any better, it will. Gotta hang on to yourself an don’t lose sight of the goal. Easy to get distracted and sidetracked.<P>The last week I have been feeling quite good actually. If you are not on anti-deps, I would highly recommend talking to your Dr.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR>

Don't get me wrong when I say this but I really love you guys. I just woke up (5:30 AM) and logged on to see who was here. To my pleasant surprise, all my buddies checked in to lend me support! I am so touched I have tears in my eyes. I feel so helpless...even though I don't wish this feeling on anyone; it's comforting to know that what I’m feeling is normal and that there are others who feel the same.<P>Thank you so much for your very kind and supportive messages. You really don't know how much reading them meant to me. Last night was probably one of the worst nights I've had to date. Ranked 2nd only to discovery night 4 months ago.<P>You'd think that things would get better and I'd start to feel more normal. Sure, I'm not nearly as weepy as before, but the visceral pain remains as intense as when she dropped the bomb. Chris - thanks for the anti-dep advice. I've been on 100 mg/day of Zoloft for about 2 months. I find that it very effectively takes me out of the "suicide zone". However, it certainly is no happy pill (not that I was expecting it to be).<P>I want so desperately to learn how to be happy with myself once again. I've always been a self-sufficient person, but within my marriage I suppose I became too dependent on my W's presence. We did everything together. She was my entire world. I now realize how unhealthy that was. If this is withdrawal, it sure is a living hell...<P>You all have been so great in your support. No matter what happens in my situation, I will always remember just how kind and giving you all are. RWD - I am really praying for you today. I hope that last night went well. Chris, izzy and I are watching you very carefully. Do you mind if we live vicariously through you for a while? Even though your W may bolt again at any moment, the fact that she is there is a huge milestone. I think any of us whose spouse has left would give their left (insert appropriate vital body part here) to be where you are now. I will pray for everyone on this forum, but especially you RWD since you seem to be at a turning point.<P>God bless you all.

Shattered,<P>I haven't posted to you in awhile, but I have been thinking about and praying for you and your situation. I just wanted to let you know how sorry I am that you have to experince this pain. I know I caused my h. so much profond pain by what I did and sometimes I think it was more my incrediable selfish behavior and the things I said more than the actaul act of betrayal that hurt him most.<P>I regret all of it today more than I can ever express. My h. is a good and thoughful man, just like you sound to be. I really believe that one day your wife is going to realize what she has lost. In away, I have lost my h. (with his betrayal) and I blame much of that on what I did. What goes around does come around. I wish I could take it all back. I lost the most precious thing I ever had..us..us as we used to be when nothing sttod between us..when we couldn't ever imagine hurting each other. I had the heart of the man of my dreams and I did the most stupidist thing imaginable. I still don't know why. I know part of my cruelty was the fact that I hated myself and thought I deserved to be hated and if I could make him hate me, it would be easier for him. Big mistake. I don't know if this is part of your w think or not.<P>I guess what I'm trying to say is you sound like a very devoted, loving h. who made your wife your world. Its every woman's dream. I don't know why your wife is doing this to you but I think someday she is going to regret with all her heart letting a man like you get away. Hang in there. I realize my words probably do nothing to sooth the agony you are feeling but I just wanted let you know that I feel bad for you and am praying for you.

Shattered1,<P>Gee really feel for you...I know what that feels like too...but I am here so it did pass....and yours will too...there is not much one can do in that situation...she is beyond your control...<P>You are not responsible for her actions...but you are responsible for your pain in reacting to it.....so knowing only you can do something about that pain is good in a way because then you have the power over it..not anyone else...and certainly not her or her actions....!<P>This realization was a breakthrough for me and trying to deal with my hurt...and the only way I thought to help me thru it was to go to counselling and intensive therapy...it worked for me....<P>This forum is a godsend and the people here are just the best...I survived without knowing it even existed..so you have a great chance...!!!! <P>Some relationships were never meant to continue and some were never meant to end...whatever the result it does teach one to have faith in ones own God for he teaches us in many different ways..... pain and love are his very effective tools of experience to bring us to build a love of self....faith in him and ourselves and a forgiveness that brings with it peace and wisdom....and a trust of him and ourselves that brings us confidence and acceptance....<P>Keep going friend...your expressions here relieve some of the pent up painful emotion that we carry in times of stress.....and who knows what is in the future....strange things happen when we give then time to develop...<P>Keep your chin up and give to yourself...do something just for you ....and fill your mind with as much nice stuff as you can...I know this is difficult but to succeed just a little here is to pass a little time not in as much pain and is a little closer to being without it altogether...<P>Many blessings...<P>cossie...<P>------------------<BR>To know who you are is to see who I am....<P>

Shattered misery loves company.<P>My relationship witj my wife is exactly the same except that she has not left home yet.<P>I know we need to get stronger and every time we think we have made some progress something else hits us where it hurts. I have resigned myself to the expectation of divorce. I still love my wife but it is fading. <P>Like you based on all the statistics etc,. this affair will crash and burn but I don't see why. The OM wife hates him even before this happened and will divorce. There is no straw to grasp at other than statistics for me.<P>At 6 am this morning my wife packed for a trip to Quebec with him. I managed to handle it OK until the cabby innocently said "Is ther another pickup?" I asked her if this was being discrete to which she replied "It's not a secret." I just hit myself on the side of the head with a brick and went back to bed.<P>For me I need for her to go and live with him to maybe get a dose of reality for us all. In a long winded way I don't know how I will feel if it crashes. I only hope I think enough of her at that time to help her. I want to get on with life. I am not looking for new relationships, but I am looking to regain my feeling of self-worth.<P>

Shattered, I'm so sorry. Sometimes thigns just feel like we can't hold on anymore.It's only natural, all the pain we're going trough has its effects.<BR>I don't really have anything to add to all the other answers you got, but I just wanted to tell you that's even though it feels like an eternity it's still early and many things can change.<BR>Like distressed pointed out, it really helps if we adapt a" of hope for the best but prepare for the worse" attitude, it helps when things don't go that well.<BR>DO take care, and stay with us. We're here.<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

hurtingwife/cossie/awoken - <P>Thanks for your kind words.<P>hurtingwife - I read your profile...wow. You are one of those few who understands the pain from both sides. Tell me, which pain is worse overall - the betrayer's or the betrayed? I guess we have to define pain in terms of intensity and duration (what can I say...I'm an engineer).<P>My guess is that certainly the betrayed's duration is longer since the betrayer had, at least for a while, that euphoric feeling. Intensity of pain I couldn't even ventture a guess. I suppose every situation and individual is different.<P>You are so kind to characterize me as "devoted" and that this devotion is "every woman's dream". Thank you. Devotion is also every man's dream in a woman they love too! I know it is tru for me. Trust me hurtingwife, I haven't been completely innocent throughout our marriage, but honor, committment, trust and truthfulness are tops on my list. My W knew exactly where to stick the knife in...<P>I envy your relationship because both of you had the strength and desire to overcome your respective tragedies. I really don't think my W will come around. She's extremely impulsive...you know the type...ready, FIRE, aim.<P>cossie - thanks for responding individually to me in your e-mail. Your response was exactly what I was looking for. You too know what it's like from "both sides". For you, which was the worst pain?<P>I am trying to work through my pain. I do go to counseling and lean heavily on family (hers and mine), friends and most importantly God. My faith is very strong. Even though I haven't yet felt a significant sign from God to help me get through this pain, I know He is there for me. I will never lose faith, even though my desired outcome is probably different from His will. His promise to me is that through this hardship will come something even better for me.<P>awoken - dude, I feel for you. I sometimes wonder if having W home while she's screwing OM would be better or worse for my emotional well-being than knowing she is living with him. Even though I miss her badly, I have to keep in mind that the person she is now is NOT the person I fell in love with and married nearly 6 years ago. If she was home(like your W is), I think I would be going insane.<P>I think we're a lot alike awoken. The feeling you wrote in your last paragraph are mine exactly. I heard that if they live together, then reality sets in faster and the end occurs faster. I waffle whether I will be there if/when she crashes too. One thing is for sure...if the divorce becomes final, I will not look back. I, too, need to get on with my life. I'm extremely lonely. A divorce would free me to begin dating women that haven't hurt me in this most despicable way. There would be no withdrawal to go through, no rejection (well maybe if they don't like me), and no barriers to trust to overcome. I'm beginning to actually look forward to that.

Shattered,<P>When I was the betrayer, I remember feeling horrible once I realized what I had done. I felt terrible and wanted to spend the rest of my life making it up to my h.. I remember thinking I'm just going to be his slave and serve him the rest of my life because that's all I deserve. Sort of like that Scripture, I'd rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than anything anywhere else. Well, that's what I felt like. Just to let me stay and be his wife was more than I deserved. I remember thinking if this ever happened again I wanted to be ont the other side (the betrayed) because no way ever again did I want to hurt the one I love like that.<P>As the betrayed, this pain is definately much more excruciating. I know what you mean about the knife...for me its straight into the heart. However, one part of me is glad I'm on this side because I know what it feels like to cause this crushing blow to someone you love and I don't ever want to be the deliverer of that kind of pain again.<P>For me, I never had the euphoric feeling because I was never in love with om. Om tried to convince me that I was and, maybe one part of me wanted to be in order to justify what I had done. But I knew then and know now, that I was not. That's where my case is different from your w.<P>The duration from the betrayer (at least, for me) is that I have to live with the pain of what i did to my h. every day of my life. When I get up in the morning, it is there. When I lay down at night, it stares me in the face. I can't forget either. No matter how much I want to take it back-I can't. I don't like to think about it...I'd as soon as fall through ice...I say that wasn't me...and I beleive it wasn't. No matter what, I can't change what i did. I regret it more than I can say. I can tell my h. that, but it doesn't erase it from his memory or mine.<P>As the betrayed, the pain has been unbarable. I was suicidal, also, at times. I still only see darkness now and then and have to rely on God to get me through. My h. and I are both Christians. We went to Bible School shortly after being married. Everything that happened to us still happened despite our faith. Yes, we got away from it are now finding our way back to it (and hopefully, this will help to lead us back to each other). We both know we loved each other in the past with that deep, passionate love...and I know I am meant to be with him for better or worse.<P>I know this probably doesn't mean much to you right now because it is hard to see anything through the pain...but whether you w. comes back or not, your going to make some lucky woman very happy. You are doing everything you possibly can to save your marriage and, with your faith in God, he will reward you for that-maybe not the way you wish, but then again maybe he will-but he will reward you. Keep hanging in there. I pray for your strenth.

Shattered, <P>I've hestitated talking to you here, thinking perhaps that others could hold you up... you know, since I'm SOOOO up right now. Thought it might just hurt you more. But I have to chime in here. I'm like hurtingwife, I've been on both sides. It hurts like HELL, especially if you feel remorseful. In fact, dare I say that it hurts WORSE when you know that you've just given the person YOU LOVE MOST ON EARTH the kind of pain that the betrayed feel. I don't think you can catagorize it into this pain or that pain. <P>Shattered, I like you so much, and I hate that your W is doing this to you, and that you can't seem to find any middle ground to work it out. Keep up the praying, and believe she's coming home OR don't. That's your choices right now. And I'm so sorry that it's come down to that... so very sorry... she is pushing your face in her ****, and you don't deserve it.<P>Big, big cyber hugs...<P>------------------<BR>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<BR>

Shattered:<P>Hang in there.. I wish I could give you some more concrete advice than that, but listen to Chris. He's living the same thing you are.<P>Work on bettering yourself; make yourself the best Shattered you can be! Whatever you may think she is using for "justification," work on that. Yes... I know, there's NO justification for what she is doing, but like DMac says... "Affairs don't occur in a vacuum." Even if the worst happens, you can come through this a better person.<P>Hang in there! I'm pulling for you! <BR>

Shattered & all,<BR>Got home late last nite from the baseball game with my kids and had a message from w to call her when we got back. Also had a caller ID that there was a phone call from om's home.<BR>I called w and it seems that om's w had called wanting to talk to my w as my w had sent om's w a letter, not so much as an apology but more as a warning thaat om has some serious problems especially with lying.<BR>Anyway w saw om last nite as he returned his keys to the apt. He said he would not bother my w and w said that they could no longer even be friends or even talk to one another at work. Tonite will be the first test as she got called in and this was his nite to work anyway. She told me that his coworkers were made at him for the way he dumped her. <BR>I guess they were happy she dumped me the same way ? Also all her coworkers are rallying around her now. What about when she was considering leaving me, where were they?<BR>Anyway, w came to our son's football game today and you could tell she was down. She said Sat must be terrible(she should try for 3-4 months) so we sat and didn't say much. <BR>As we were leaving I reached down and held her hand and that made her smile. Then as she got ready to leave I asked if she wanted to do something outside if it ws nice tommorrow and she said yes(pray for no rain tommorrow!) and then before she left I leaned over and gave her a small kiss which she returned.<BR>I'm still not sure what to do about having her move home. She siad today she was afraid that I would be upset if she was having a bad emotional day and wasn't upbeat. That would bother me knowing that she is thinking about om. I guess thats one reason I would like her to live on her own. Also so if she does decide to move on it won't effect the kids as much as if she were at home.<BR>On the down side, if she is living alone, what if someone asks her out? I don't think she wants to be alone and thats one reason she gave for om moving in so quickly. So if someone asks her out she may go, then what ?<BR>I was envying Chris because his w wasn't nearby, with the callowness that my w and some of your spouses show it makes it very tough to handle. If you can Plan B it and make arrangements for someone to handle the kids.<BR>Someone posted that morals don't come in play and that was true in my case too! ONly time custody comes into play is when both parents want sole custody. Most states push the shared parenting or joint custody. ONly things that matter are drug or child abuse. Spouses could live with 100 of the opposite sex and it wouldn't seem to matter. And unless they endanger the child, or abuse drugs or the child, unfit parent isn't used.A divorec is simply a division of assets.<BR>I'll do what I can to help you all get thru what you're going thru.

Kat1/hurtingwife/NewB/WhoDat/RWD - <P>Once again, my buds to the rescue!!! As impossible as this may sound, wouldn't it be really great to all meet somewhere...kinda like an infidelity reunion. I know that would blow the anonimity of the forum but I would really like to meet you all someday. I think we would become even better friends.<P>Got off the phone with my parents. My mom has recently become somewhat proficient on her computer. I led her to this site (Hi mom...I love you!) and told her what my pseudonym is. She now checks in regularly to see how I'm doing. I really must watch what I write...LOL<P>She agreed that the people on this forum are just the best. She saw how much everybody supports each other and rejoices with each other. This place is indeed a God-send.<P>Thanks again for the support. My father-in-law will be trying to get a read from my W on just what it is she wants out of the marital assets. he told me he will try to contact her Monday and let me know Monday evening.<P>RWD - Man, I'm really pulling for you. I suggest trying to bring your W home as soon as possible...tonight if you can. Have her sleep in the marriage bed while you offer to sleep in the guest room or couch. That will accomplish many things:<P>1. Tells her you want her home where she belongs. I agree that if she doesn't like to be alone (and who does) she may take license to go out on a date. You should be the only one she dates!!<P>2. Giving up the marital bed symbolizes to her that you only want the best for her.<P>3. Sleeping apart tells her that you are not a threat to her...nor is she to you.<P>I will pray for your continued success RWD. Please continue to post your progress.<P>NewB - I really like you too...you've been especially helpful to me. Although I will more than likely be out of the picture when W crashes, I really think it will be a bad one. OM is stereotypical womanizer...rich executive, foreigner, drives expensive luxury car, and apparently has an arrangement with hiw wife that he can sleep around. How do I know? Well, when he took my W to Barcelona, Spain a month ago, two of his kids met them there. His 16 and 18 year old. I can't possibly believe that they (the kids) could keep a secret from their mother. Besides, pictures were taken!! The depravity is incomprehensible. When OM gets sick of W (trades her in for a new model), he will dump her. I'm sure my W is not his first...nor will she be his last. May God have mercy on his soul.

Shattered I just returned from the OW forum someone mentioned. You've always been looking for more information. The pain and confusion will give you yet another perspective on this ordeal. It also gives me a little more respect for those betrayers who have chosen to work on their marriage and the struggles they must overcome.<P>As an aside I searched for sites on affairs and came up with one for people looking for affairs. Well one of the first pieces of advice "be honest!" I'm afraid I might be losing it, I just cracked up!

awoken - man, I tell you this world surely has gone to hell in a handbasket. I guess it shouldn't surprise me that there is a dedicated internet site where prospective affairees can meet. Why not, everything else is represented on the internet.<P>It's really a sad state of affairs (no pun intended) what this world has come to. Now I'm 40, but I certainly can remember when I could play outside all night without the treat of gang violence or sexual preditors. I used to be able to go Trick or Treating with just my friends. If I had kids, there'd be no way I'd let them go out alone.<P>A lot of depravity out there my friends. Thanks God for Dr. Harley and this wonderfully supportive forum.