Thank everyone for the posts.

To answer as many questions as I can.

My wife is 5 months sober and has a female sponser. For the most part she goest to womens meetings. I have heard about 13 steppers that prey on women so I try to make sure her meetings that are not womens meetings she goes with a women from that meeting.

I am really not focusing on the negative in my FWW she keeps making the same bad decesions time and time again. Our relationship has always been out of whack when it comes to making decesions. If I disagree with her I have two choices, do it her way or hear about it forever. There is no middle ground. When I have done it her way there are usually ramifications for the whole family and then I am the one to have to fix the problems. She has no accountability for her actions.

She just made another one. Long story short they are renovating our apartment complex so whe had to change apartments. I wanted same floor plan she wanted smaller more expensive floorplan. I pointed out all the positives and all the negatives in the decesion. Same apartment made sense. She had her mind set on smaller more expensive. Guess what the day we moved in she regretted her decesion and now we are stuck in smaller more expensive apartment for a year.

When it comes to meeting her needs I have worked harder then I should have had to, to meet them. In order to give her the alone time she wanted at night I had to fix the problems she created with our kids. She started laying down at night with our youngest against my wishes. I said he is going to need us every night if you do that. Sure enough thats what happened. In order to meet her need I had to break my son of that habit. Not easy listening to a 4 year old cry for an hour every night for a week. She was at work when I did this.

During the last 3 years I didn't even focus on her meeting my emotional needs per the advice of our MC. I had to focus on the things she was doing that hurt me and our family and stop those before I could even ask for her to meet my needs. He basically said no matter what good she does the bad is going to wipe it out. It only took 2 and a half years for her not to flirt with men when we went out on dates. During our last discussion I pointed out the simple things I asked for. Dressing up in lingerie and maybe getting me a card. I asked her how many times she has done those two things combined. She guessed maybe 12. I asked how many times she flirted and she said a lot more then 12. More damage then good.

Now she says I am a different person then I was then. With no proof or actions to prove that statement.

Now she dug herself into a big hole by pointing the finger at me when she came back. Big proof that those in glass houses... She made me realize that she was not a very good wife.

Now I sit here today wondering why I would even consider staying with a person that is so broken.

When I make a bad decesion I hear about it forever when she makes one she wants to say sorry and move on. I end up fixing them and thats not fair. I would be better off making all the decesions but if I do that I am controlling.

With all the lying I didn't even put all of her BS statements. The worse one which made me feel pathetic was when I found out about her actions I said "you know if I would have known that I might have divorced you" She said "I don't think you would have". Am I really that pathetic. Or if she really believed that why all the lies.

I know the answer she didn't want to have to atone or live with the ramifications of her actions.

Now her mom is coming out for the summer and quite frankly SF is pretty much out of the question because of the new apartment. LOL.

She knows I am pissed off right now so she is on her best behavior. The only time that happens is when I am mad and as soon as I am not she goes right back to her same old ways.

So I have a choice stay mad so she treats me well or be nice and treat her well with no return on my investment.

As far as solving my problems. I have a good life. I have a good job. I two wonderful boys one of which has made allstars in his first year of baseball and I am the assistant coach. I have a great extended family. People like and admire me. I have a great sense of humor. I am a good looking guy. What the ****** am I missing? Someone that sees all of this and appreciates it and wants to return what she has taken out of it.

I worked on my so called faults I am still dealing with hers.

I told my FWW one time that it means a lot when you get dressed up sexy for me. I said you take a shower every night then you get on your PJ's. The lingerie is in the same drawer it takes no longer to put that on then your PJ's so there is no effort involved in doing that. It makes me happy. If she told me she liked me in silk boxers and I was the one that had the A I would wear those boxers every damn night just to show her I listened to her and I wanted to please her. Not my FWW she tells me she doesn't see why it is so important.

I have been a FWW, and the above statement of her... " i dont think you would have" is what i believe the whole point here. She doesnt believe you would EVER leave her, she has never had to face loosing you. She doesnt know that she really loves you, and she doesnt know that she really appreciates you, because she never was faced with the possibility of having lost you.

I know this might sound strange now, but i felt the exact same way about my husband, we were not in recovery, but he has always told me... I will always love you, i will always wait for you... so i had nothing to worry about... i treated him like crap. Until one day he announced... well, you have nothing to worry about anymore, i dont love you anymore. A few weeks later my EA was over. My husband had a PA about one year into my EA, i was so sure of him, that didnt bother me. I KNEW beyond a shadow of a doubt, i wouldnt loose him, period. I never ever pictured him loosing his love for me. Even then, i figured.. ok now i go back to him, and he will happily embrace me... WRONG!!!! And i am so glad that he didnt... because if he had... i would be your wife right now. I would have never had to fight for him... i would have never appreciated him and sooner or later we would have ended up the same place we were.

She doesnt see anything yet.. and she wont unless she will be faced with the possibility of actually loosing you..

You noticed when you said that to her... she didnt believe you. In her mind... you aint ever gonna leave her.

You have tried so very hard for the past 3 years to do anything to keep her.. to keep the marriage alive. She never had to do anything, she never had to face any consequences for her actions. You took her back, asked things of her, but she saw no need to do these things, because you stayed with her reguardless.

I truly believe, she will not get it, unless she is faced with loosing you. Then she will either decided that this marriage isnt for her.. or she will finally wake up and see what she has done... and then she will do anything to get you back...

I know this is a big step... but i think you dont want to stay in a marriage like this. If anything snaps her out, you leaving her would be it. I dont believe she will change if things continue how they are. It has been going on for 3 years. Question is, do you want to continue this marriage the way it is? Or do you want to risk loosing the wife that you have right now... and you might get the woman back that you married...

Just my point of view... from how i felt back then.. and what it took for me to wake up and realize my own feelings.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm rolling over too easily for my wife too. I *always* back down in any discussion when she starts to get upset. I always try to make her feel safe and don't push too hard. Ever so gradually I hear more and more hurtful things from her. One time she called me a f-ing crybaby for getting upset over a secret email account she had. Just recently I decided to snoop that account and she was using it to talke to multiple men; one of which she met at a bar on our last trip to her hometown. She hurt me *bad* in that fight; I felt like a horrible person for ever doubting her... She curled up in a ball on our bed and wouldn't talk to me for an entire day.

Because I don't want to separate or hurt the kids, I give in a *lot* more than I want to. I just keep telling myself a positive approach should be able to work.

Sometimes I wonder if things wouldn't be better for us if I'd taken a hard-line. Nah, I don't think so... She was pretty unhappy; if I kicked her out instead of Plan A-ing we'd be really screwed up now. I guess you just have to focus on yourself and what you can improve.

Its hard stuff... don't take any advice from me years because I'm an extreme newbie to this but you sound like your love bank is almost empty and MB says thats when you go to plan B (of course thats normally a plan to end an affair...) Maybe talk to SH on the phone about this.

End
thank you for your perspective and it makes absolute 100% sense to me. Since we changed apartments I have been very upset with her. Like I said this pattern of behavior has caused many problems. The last few days she has been great because she knows I am pissed off about it. She of course doesn't know the depth of it. Now maybe I do need to make the step because this aint working. I have realized our stops and starts have been because of this behavior. She has actually called me and listened to me instead of calling and unloading for 5 minutes then hanging up. She actually got dressed up for me that night but I didn't want SF.

Now she is being nice as pie but that is only when things are bad because of her. Once I "forgive her" things will go right back to where they were.

She is a renter and there is no doubt in my mind about that. The issue is a decesion that I weighed out the positives and the negatives and the only positives are for her. The rest of the family would only have negatives. I did not give in and that is still being held over my head.

She told me after we peeled away all the excuses she used that if we would have just moved like she wanted she would have never had an A.

Normal.
I feel for you because you are where I was 3 years ago. It is hard to have this obligation and do what is best for yourself.

The problem I have with improving part of myself is that it will hurt me in a D. I am in sales if I start busting it out I make a lot more money which means more support.

I asked for a postnup to protect myself she said no.

Coming up on the 10 year mark in our M and that is a bad thing when it comes to a D and alimony.

Crap this whole thing sucks.

Maybe she is also trying to be more nice and dressing up for you, cause she feels something is going on inside of you, for some reason she seems to be putting in some effort.

Isnt it funny how when we push.. they pull away. And when we dont seem clingy or pushy or needy.. they seem to come more towards us?

Absolutely. Funny is not the word I would use but ok.

She knows I am unhappy about the move. I straight out told her that this is just another decesion she forced on me through her passive aggressive behavior that turned out bad. Now she is willing to put in some effort so I will give her a chance to see.

She told me she now understands she always makes bad decesions.(her words) Her answer to how to fix that problem is to have me make all the decesions. She called me this morning to have me make the decesion on where to eat tonight. I don't care to make every decesion. Am I married to a five year old or an adult.

Sorry.. maybe "strange" would have been more appropriate than funny. I do speak pretty good english... but at times i do choose words poorly.. i apologize.

I understand that she has made bad decisions, but i highly doubt that every single decision that she makes is a bad one. Her stating that they are always bad.. kind of makes me believe that she just thinks no matter what she decides or does is going to end up bad anyways.. basically a "cant do anything right mentality"... so she just pushes everything away now and lays it on your shoulders.

Has your wife been depressed before, during or after the A?

Doesnt sound like she is too happy with herself. Of course i dont know her at all, and i dont know much about your situation, so i cant really judge it well. I just got that feeling, from how you wrote that she responds.

Ok not all the decesions she makes are bad ones that was an exageration.

Here is the deal. When we face important decesions I need to go through all of the negatives and positives before deciding. This usually leads to good decesions. Sometimes you forget something and it doesn't turn out the way it should. There have been several instances on big issues that my FWW made up her mind without looking at anything other then I want to do it. Including her A. Sometimes you get lucky and there are no consequences to making a bad decesion. In her case she has made some bad decesions that I tried to dissuade her from making because of the negatives. She went ahead with her way and it turned out really bad. For instance I wanted a nice family vacation. We discussed where we were going to go and what we were going to do. Then her friend moved to Las Vegas and she decided that where we should go so she could see her friend. I told her it was going to cost too much, it was going to be hot etc. There were a lot of negatives and the only positive was she would get to see her friend. I even suggested taking the family vacation then we could go to Vegas w/out the kids. She insisted on going. I knew that if I didn't agree she would find fault in everything on the vacation I thought was best. Two days in Vegas and everything I said was right. Kids were miserable she was miserable and no one was having fun. I actually had to tell everyone to stop complaining and make the best of it. When we got back all she kept saying was how horrible it was. Now this is just a simple example I can give you ones that have caused real problems in our relationship. Have caused me a huge amount of stress trying to undo the damage.

She has been depressed before. During the A she sounded happy as a pig in ******.

I can't imagine she is too happy with herself. She has really screwed our entire family up. Not just the A. She unilaterlly decided to have plastic surgery instead of buying a house. Now the housing market has gone through the roof and instead of equity we have new boobs.

The bad decesions that she makes though are usually for her and nobody else so the consequences affect everyone except her. At least she got something out of the decesion. We get less because of the decesion.

She said the worse decesion she ever made was moving out west with me. Said she would not do that if she could go back in time.

So since I posted this I have run into the same old same old with FWW.

Long story short she made a really bad decesion that affects me and the 2 boys.

Seemed remorseful but four days later I bring up one negative about the situation and she hands me my a55.

I have pegged the problem here. She can forgive herself without worrying about the harm it has caused. She is now ready to move past the negatives of this decesion so it is over even though I am still agitated.

When she says it is over its over. Plus she thinks she is hard enough on herself she doesn't need to hear it from me too.

Need one of those Men In Black sticks to zap me into amnesia again.

By the way I do not focus on the negative all the time it just seems there has been so much negative on her part and very little positive. I am holding on to the positive so my actions actually make sense.

YOH, I've been watching this thread, and others where you've posted, for a while now. It's about time you made a decision about what you want to do about the situation. I don't mean you have to do it tonight, or tomorrow...not even by Sunday evening, but talking about how bad it is and how it isn't changing isn't making it better.

I think you need to start considering your choices. Lay it all out…show every pro and con for each option you develop. You've said that's the way you make decisions, so use that procedure now. If you don’t want to waste another three, or thirty, years, you have to take some proactive measures…one way or the other.

Life’s too short, as they say. So…what’s it going to be pardner? We’ll help, but you have to tell us what direction you’re going, okay?

Longhorn,

You are absolutely correct and I do need to make up my mind.

I stayed up until 2pm going through the pro's and con's. There is one glaring negative for leaving that seems to outweigh everything and that is my children.

If I were to leave I would see them half the time I do now or I could go into court and bury my FWW and possibly get almost full custody. Half the time being what I would call the best for them if it comes to a D. But is that really good for them. It would absolutely crush my youngest son if he didn't see me everyday. He is only six years old.

There would also be some negative financial ramifications. My FWW does not make a lot of money and works part time while they are at school. She would end up working full time to get by. I would then be paying support. We are not well off we are middle class getting by. This would throw us into the lower - lower middle class. Both my FWW and I would have to move into apartments that are not as nice as we have now.

We do not fight a lot anymore so it is not like they are exposed to a really negative environment.

I have realized now that if they were older or if we didn't have children this M would have been over long ago. Not just because of the A but all of the other things that have been wrong for so long.

I really think at this point I should just roll with it until they get older. At that point I think she will make the decesion to leave me and go back east.(not being half empty here.) She has told me this is what is probably going to happen if I don't move back. By the way everytime I try to weigh the negatives and positives of going back east there is only one person it would be positive for and FWW just refuses to see that.

This is really tough for me because my parents were divorced and I know the reality of the situation for kids when this happens.


Thank you longhorn for feeding me my own advice.

It's your decision, pardner. Don't speculate on the financial implications though. Go talk to a lawyer and get definitive information. I don't know where you are but you could wind up with custody of the children and she would pay you support. Adultery does still matter in many states, even when the general rule is "no fault."

Also, do not depend on the children not seeing the chill between you and your wife. Just “not fighting” isn’t the same as showing love and respect for each other. Kids are smart. My youngest daughter was four at the time of my ex-wife's infidelity. She saw and knew what her mother was doing was wrong. My daughter is grown and has four children of her own now. She brought up her mother's adultery in a conversation with me again last year. In other words, it still bothers her…badly. Children see, and they don’t forget.

Finally, you haven't factored in the effect of such a cold, dreary existence on your sanity. Limbo is not a good place to be. It's far too enervating. How will this be of benefit to your children?

Consider this. Your wife’s adultery is technically finished. However, she may reconnect with that man, or another one, at the drop of a hat because the underlying issues have not been resolved. If you carry on in your limbo, you will never have a moment when you will be able to let down your guard. You will always have to be watching to make sure your wife isn’t straying again. In a sense, she is still in her adultery because you have no peace and it continues to affect you.

Technically, Plans A and B are there to break up adulteries. But, I think they can also be used to influence a spouse to convince them to recommit to the marriage and forsake even the idea of a self-indulgent adulterous relationship. Get more opinions on this. We’ve got lots of people out here. I’d like to see what others say on that issue.

Think it over. You’re making a life decision and we won’t rush you.

Longhorn

Stop you are going to make my brain explode. LOL

I have spoken to lawyers and her A would definately come into a custody arrangement. The reason being the kids were involved and there was a fist fight with my family memeber in front of the kids because of the A. Plus other things as well. I checked with two lawyers to make sure the first one wasn't being overly optimistic about it and both said I could get 90% custody or even protective custody. There are other things involved in that percentage as well. Plus my oldest son just like your daughter knew what was going on was wrong.

The support part I know too. Based on her income and my income even if I had 80% custody I would still pay her support. I know it sounds stupid but it is what it is.
I almost fell over when the lawyers told me that. But I would get the write off.

Spousal support is almost a given because we live in a no fault state. So even though she had the A it doesn't matter. It is decided by income. Unfortunately I worked my tail off so she could be a stay at home mom which now comes back and bites me. LOL.

I want a better marriage don't get me wrong but I am a strong person. I have been through a lot in my life and been able to smile at the end of the day. Quite frankly my FWW's has at least brought some balance into our relationship where I don't let her walk all over me. Sometimes I think it was better then it was before for me not because of the love but I feel like at least I am not being walked all over anymore.

As far as the adultry part I will not worry about that. I know it sounds stupid to say that but I will never trust her enough to let one thing get by me, if she deals with the A her way.

I am going to keep weighing this out in my mind. I am going to test the waters as far as her commitment goes and ask one more time for a post nup and see where it goes.

But thank you for following up with me I really needed your input on this.

Then may peace be with you. My thoughts will be with you and your family as you work your way through this.

Again thank you. You actually have made me think.

Hey YOH just seeing you on the board and wondering what you have been up to. Just a thought. YOu may have grown up with a family divorced. I grew up with a family intact but not functional. Both parents wanted a D and were staying together for the kids. I hated it. I wished everyday that they were divorced to end the pain! Your children need more than anythign else to see both their parents happy and healthy. Are you able to continue with your wife an dbe happy and healthy? IS she? If not, you need to choose a plan and stick to it. What would make you both happy if you want to stay together? what will make you and your children happy if you are going to be apart? FOcus on one of these and work to make it work.

P.S. the east coast is not the worst alternative- but I know you are not changing your mind. Atleast can you vist their more frequently?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

CFC

The east coast is bad because of bad knees, bad back, and arthritis on my part.

I still have a bad taste about visiting right now. Thats where the A occured. Plus that is where all of our vacation money has gone for the last ten years.

As far as the kids go I know I have a lot of thinking to do on that one.

This is some process. Every time I think I have it figured out something new comes up. Three weeks ago I was focused on radical honesty now I want recovery. If it took three years for the honesty I am scared about the recovery. Just when you think the end is in sight.

I am doing great though. Luckily enough kids are doing great too. I am a happy person so I can live with the limitations of my M right now as long as I know what they are.

Thanks for checking in.

I read your thread but didn't have much advice on it so I left it alone.