Blindsided...

Mr. W and I feel that in many MB success stories there is a "giving up" point...That point when a BS realizes that there is NOTHING that they can do to change the other person, and they accept that...When you do that, you no longer appear needy, clingy or desperate to the WS...The WS is then able to see the you that they originally fell in love with...As hard as this is blind, you MUST allow for the possibility that he is not coming back to the relationship and realize that if this happens YOU will be ok...YOU will go on...YOU will be happy again...This change in perception is HUGE, and IMO is your BEST shot at having the relationship that you hold so dear become yours again...

For Mr. W, last spring, after trying many things that in my WS mind were not attractive ie. scattering rose petals on our sheets...While I would LOVE that now, at the time, it seemed pathetic...pathetic is not attractive...as cruel as I know that sounds, it just isn't...It was not until he finally just said, (to himself), "Ok, this is probably going to be the last time that this family is going to be intact, so I am simply going to enjoy the rest of the summer and deal with what I have to as it comes"...THAT was when his behavior towards me changed dramatically...he was no longer trying so hard, instead he became my best friend again...he listened when I spoke and just nodded to a bunch of FOGGY CRAP, bless his heart...when he stopped trying so hard, I began to come around...not conciously, it just seems to be what happens...I know that we aren't the only people here that have experienced something similar...it's how we took the first baby steps in the recovery process...and make no mistake about it, recovery is a process, and NOT an event...it's a long and winding road...

So make the serenity prayer your motto, be the best that YOU can be and really KNOW that you will make it through this, because, YOU will!

Mrs. W

I know I will make it through this no matter what.

Situations like this show you who your true friends are and who really cares about you even with in your own family.

I have been being a great friend for the past 2 days and I will continue that.

I know I need to ask him what his plans are and I was afraid to do that but I have to get over the fear.

I also know in his fog he wants to sell the house quickly but I am going to stay here as long as I feel I need to.
If he wants to go I can't stop him but I won't be pushed to sell until I have made my own decisions.

If his A is that important to him then they will have to work it out for themselves. I am not going to make it easy but I can't stand in his way.

Am I getting it now??

Blind

blindsided...

I swore that I wasn't gonna post this again without getting permission from star*fish, but it's just so dang good IMO...so what the heck...Hope it helps blind...

Mrs. W

So I am in Plan A right now and he has been home for 2 days.
I haven't been able to see if there is any contact he is basically sleeping with his cell phone.

I know I need to bring up what his plans are for the short term future but I don't know how to approach the subject with out having him defend his A.

During one phone conversation I asked him if he was going to be with her now and his response was "something like that", she lives in another state 1200 miles away.

At that point he said he was going to come home and fix up our house to put it on the market.

Mr W said doing nothing changes nothing so what do I bring up in Plan A and what do I let go???

Blind

He's a smart guy that Mr. W...I say it like this...If you change nothing, nothing changes...Nothing wrong with stating your boundaries in Plan A blind...As in, "I don't wish to be the girlfriend of OW's boyfriend"...

Hey, we cross-posted...Make sure to read the post I made to you where I quoted star*fish on fear...Hang on blind, you seem to be getting it...

Mrs. W

P.S. Read the link in Mr. W's signature "Pepperbands Carrot and Stick of Plan A"...

So can I simply say to him.

I don't want to sell our home. I want to work on us.
I love you and I hear what you are saying but I am not giving up on us.

Blind

Not quite. I think something along the lines of "Jimbo (just my nickname for your man)...Jimbo, you are throwing a lot at me right now. I just found out what is going on and you want me to just jump up and say "sure, lets sell the house, paint it up, put it on the market". I hope you can understand that I'm going to need some time to process all this. I am not really prepared to discuss selling the house with you right now. However, I would like to know what is going on with you and I. What is your thinking on the issue? We've been together a long time and you are my best friend...I'd really like to discuss this all openly and as adults".

Do not put yourself down, nor apologize. Don't be needy or clingy. Do not cry (men shut down when woman do that...cry later if you must). If you need a moment just back off and say you need some time to process that point, issue or question but thank you for asking or sharing it with me. Don't agree or disagree with anything he says...just listen and ask questions.

If he starts getting single issue focused "I only want to talk about selling the house and moving on, I have nothing to say regarding anything else." You flip it on him and say without all the information pertaining to my life I find it difficult to process any decision regarding the house, please drop that issue for now...I should be ready to discuss that another day"

Just my take.

Mr. W

p.s.- don't you have a voice activated digital recorder in the house or in his car? Snooping the truth is easier than dragging it out of him.

I guess I need to keep reading up on my Plan A and LB's.

I know what I want to say but I guess I just need to find the right words.

He has been home now for 3 days and doesn't want to talk about what has been going on between us. He is avoiding it at all costs. Saying he is coming down with a cold or is too tired.

He has been making me dinner each night and doing the dishes which is very out of character for him.

Even making our bed in the am which hasn't happened in years.

I guess these little things he is doing is out of guilt I really don't know.

I know I have to get this situation out in the open. I guess I am just nervous about how to do it.

I'm not scared of the truth I already know what has been going on.

I am just tired of talking to the alien.

Blind

Things seem to be changing in only a few days.
see above post.

Is it guilt or is plan A waking him up a little??
Blind

how do you know if you are executing plan a correctly?

Will there be signs from the WS ???

Blind

He seems to be avoiding the subject all together does that mean Plan A is working?

What got through Mrs. W's fog????

Blind

I am doing Plan A to the best of my ability.
He has been home for a few days from his trip and we haven't spoken about the A or his plans or anything other thatn friendly chatter the entire time.

Is this right?????

Am I supposed to be declaring my boundaries now or just being the best I can be???

I don't want to screw it up right from the begining????

any suggestions??


Blind

Sorry BS

Haven't been around much today nor will I be tonight.

He has indicated he wants to sell the house. Other than that he is likely trying to make the week or two he is home as peaceful as possible. He wants to avoid the conflict. He didn't end up in his affair overnight and Plan A is NOT going to pull him out of it in just 3 days.

The better question is how is Plan A working for you? Are you eating right, sleeping, getting in shape, managing your appearance. Have you filled out the emotional needs questionaire with what you think may be his emotional needs? Are you feeling more secure about yourself regardless of what he does or says?

If you do have sex with him MAKE him wear a condom. All sorts of things out there you do not want to catch. He ain't worth your life.

When does he leave again? The closer you get to that date the more likely he will be willing to talk. He's merely waiting to escape. 1-3 days of fighting will be his limit and he wants badly to avoid 7 - 10 days of discomfort. Again, are you spying on him. Information is power especially considering you likely won't get the full truth directly from him. Don't reveal your snooping, snoop for you. If you don't know when he's leaving again, snoop for the answer.

Wish I had the magic words to say to him to get him back for you but unfortunately there are none. What I do know is the more comfortable and accepting you are of letting him go the more likely and perhaps the sooner he is going to regret and/or second guess his decision. Try to get out with him and feign having fun together. If you have a heavy conversation tonight, offer a date tomorrow with NO relationship talk tomorrow. Use his desire to avoid the conflict against him...going out and having fun sounds better than staying in and fighting/talking. Remember, his favorite topic is himself...ask him questions about HIM and what he is thinking. No need to focus him on your feelings as he has already demonstrated he does not have much regard for them RIGHT NOW.

Good luck,
Mr. W

p.s. - what got through Mrs. W's fog??? Talking and patience. While the affair was ongoing I merely "charged neutral"....meaning, I asked pointed questions without any emotional investment in the question or answer. I ask her honestly what she thought and felt. I ignored the fog and hurtful responses and listened, listened, listened. I patiently waited and waited for Mrs. W to manage her own fog. Her fog was not my "villiger". Of course, I'd try to plant some seeds but before No Contact it is nearly impossible for anything to get through. She had to come out of the fog to me, if I went in after her I'd have been lost myself along the way.

It is a large expression of love to take that amount and kind of crap and you should seriously consider whether or not you're really want to do it. It is NOT going to be fixed in a week or a month and possibly NEVER. You must know that this fight for your relationship is about YOU. So you know you gave it your all regardless of the outcome. I'm telling you, you have NO control over him...he has to decide to do right by you. You only control you...stay in control and be the best individual, friend and wife/girlfriend you can be and allow the chips to fall as God intends them to. Don't be NEEDY, you don't really "need" him....do you?????

p.p.s.- you will mess things up at times. Nobody does this perfectly. Just try to maintain your composure and be the strong, confident woman you are instead of a broken down, hurt, destroyed person nobody would find attractive. The biggest mess up of all would be doing nothing. Initiate the conversation calmly with "I need to decide some things about my life and I'd like to discuss this with you...right, now...grab a beer and one for me and lets go outside for a walk or sit on the porch".

Plan A is totally working for me. I must admit with the help of Lexapro and weekly therapy sesions.

Sleep and eating is easier and my energy has returned for the most part.

He has made no plans to leave again. I asked if he plans to go up north again and he said no time soon so to me that means he plans on being here for a while.

He hasn't made any effort to do things around the house. Nor has he spoken about moving out or selling it.

I agree this is probably to avoid conflict.

It seems as if he is in a little depression or withdrawal.
He has spent the better part of this last week sleeping and moping around the house.

I am hoping this is because the OW is 1000 miles away and can't meet those EN and I am right here meeting them every day.

Mr. W, I am in a good place right now. I have my confidence back and feel good about what I am doing.

I have done some homework and I would be able to keep my house if he left and not be strapped money wise.

I know now I don't need him to be happy. I want this to work but I don't worry about it like I did 2 months ago.

We have plans to go surfing tomorrow so that should be a nice day and I guess we will see what happens.

Thanks for the pep talk. It was just what I needed.

Blind

So today I beat him to the mail and opened his cell bill
and of course there were pages upon pages of calls to the OW. Do I state my boundaries of NC this early in Plan A. I know they can't see each other because there are 1000 miles between them and he is not planning any trips any time soon according to him.

I don't want to wreck the happy place I am creating by "puting my foot down" when I am sure the relationship will dissolve because they won't be able to have contact except the phone???

Just looking for advice from anywhere???

Last night was the real d day.

I went tosleep and he went outside to talk to the OW on the phone.

I woke up and caught him.

After a few words we came inside and had a real heart to heart.
They have slept togethr and her family is "estatic" about the two of them being together.

He cried the entire conversation.

He kept saying why are you doing this to me when I finally found someone I am interested in.
That really hurt!!!

Someone please tell me this is just the fog!!!!

I need something to go on today.

Blind

I hope you told him that it is very hurtful to you when he calls her.

He sounds very foggy. Will he go out and do fun things with you?

yes it is the fog...but make him stand in the yard just not be in the family home out of respect if he talks to his fellow alien. make everybody see the foggy alien standing in the yard. plus you can see him there.

what you are probably hearing from OW SIDE and why her family is accepting is fact he's not really married. he is probably playing up that angle hugely. he probably paints you just as a girlfriend or something...downplaying your almost 20 years together. if i were a betting woman i'd do it.

what about exposure? have you exposed to her family to her? she is probably NOT GETTING ALL THE FACTS.

and remember...carrot and stick. you got the carrot part of plan a down pat...now the stick!

tell him also you will not talk of selling the FAMILY home. use words like that. tell him you've been together for 20 years almost and that just because some ow (use that word) has messed with his brain chemistry (take away the romance in any dealings/words with the alien..helps remove them from the fantasy), that YOU AREN'T SELLING YOUR HOUSE BECAUSE OF ADULTERY. that you need time to make proper financial decisions about yourself...YOU...and for HIM too.

but Mr. wondering is totally right on when it comes to talking about HIM. my xh? he's a total alien. He can only process ANYTHING if it is PLACED IN TERMS OF HIM...if and when I have to deal with him, I have to do that...ex: if I have to ask him about changing a weekend or getting even more time with my ds say for a vacation, I'd ask like this:
Darth, I know YOUR schedule is busy and YOU plan so many things...so much on YOUR plate, that I wanted to talk to YOU right now about YOUR situation. I am going out of town and taking ds. and I will need an extra day. wE can help YOU figure out if you just want me to have that extra day, and YOU can enjoy maybe a little time to YOURSELF? but get back to me. Let's just make my vacation work for YOU>

he always complies when I do that.

sick huh? but it works. as long as they're a full blown alien. my also take on aliens is that some of them, even the temporary ones, are completely in narcissistic mode...and a narcissist can only perceive LIFE IN TERMS OF THEMSELVES...gnaw on that a while.

keep up plan a...

find the thread about the 180...might work too.

it's good he cried.

hope he becomes MORE MISERABLE..that means your plan a is beginning to do some good...now do more plan A...and exposure? what do others think here?

best wishes.

he does seem miserable. I just looked at text messages from last night before our discussion.

It made me sick reading them profess their love for each other.

my goodness that love was being professed to me 2 1/2 months ago.

It will be hard to do Plan A today but I have to get back into it.
I know I do. Gosh this is hard!!!

And it is only the begining.

Blind

Blind,

What about JP's questions on exposure?

LA