Where to begin..My husband left 4 weeks ago and is staying at his mom's house..Our relationship had gotten to the point where he said he felt he was coming home to a friend and not a wife..That there were things he had asked me to do and I didn't do them..My jealousy and snooping, he had had enough..My management of money was poor and he was tired of the roller coaster..That he just feels unhappy..

That's pretty much the reasons he left..When I ask him to think about things we have been through and the good times we can have, he says he just feels tired and doesn't feel that anything good can come from us staying together..

Things that I didn't do were little things like making phone calls or not having nieces and nephews here on Friday nights..Finances was about me having credit cards, that he used too I might add..

Jealousy, maybe a big problem..He is friendly with a female co-worker..I have a problem of snooping through his cell phone to see who he calls and who calls him..If there is something that sparks my attention, I ask about it..He swears there is nothing more than friends going on and I believe him.. Just still can't fight the feeling that I don't like him talking to her outside of work..As he has stated, he spends more time with those people than with his own family and he likes to have friendships..OK, I understand that, but why does she have to call before or after work?? His response was I'm not going to stop being friends with someone just because you have no trust in me..So, I have thought about my actions and what I "think" is going on and have decided that I do have a problem and would like to solve it..My problem now is that she is calling him now more than ever after the separation and he is confiding our marital problems in her..That makes me think that she is trying to pull him in closer to her..In a way I am hypocritical because I too have a male friend that I am just friends with..So why am I so jealous that my husband has a friend of the opposite sex? Which also adds to the dilema, because my friend told me that he loved me..And in shock, I said WHAT?? This isn't suppose to happen.. His response was I am sorry, I shouldn't have said that..I have been straight with him from the beginning about making my marriage work.. I love my husband and our children and want to make it work.. He respects that and wants me to know that he is there if I need him, but he does not want to get in between me and my husband..Of course that makes me think about what my husband and his friend are talking about..

My thing is, I want him back. I love him and want to be his wife.. But his outlook is so negative that he doesn't think trying to save our marriage is worth it..With work, school, union business, he doesn't know where the time will come from..He's not willing to give up any of those things for his marriage..Is it wrong to feel his priorities are in the wrong place?? We have been together for 15 years and married for 10 on July 7..We have 2 children 5 and 2..And yes, our kids have taken over our marriage..We didn't go out and the last time we did, I got mad about something and ruined the night..He's hanging on to that and I feel he's holding grudge just because we got in a fight at the company xmas party.. I believe I have included everything and yes I know it's a lot to take in.. It sure makes me feel better to talk about it though.. Just know that everyone around me is getting tired of hearing it.. But ya know, nothing else is on my mind right now..
How can I change his negative outlook on our marriage?

(Reposted from Resolving Conflict forum)

Oh, welcome to MarriageBuilders, Bosbo!

I'm so sorry you have to be here for this reason...and I'm rejoicing you found this website. Saved my marriage.

Have you read all the articles (links to the right of your screen)...about the Love Bank (and you described well the love withdrawals you made...finances, etc.); Love Busters (LBs) and Emotional Needs (ENs)? There are Four Rules of Marriage to read about, as well...and they are awesome!

I think you already hit on something important...your male friend increased your suspicions of your H...which is important. Called projection. You can't have contact anymore with this male friend...he has stated his belief he loves you, and if he is married, you are obligated to inform his wife. This may be a one-sided Emotional Affair (EA), however, any more contact makes it two-sided.

Marriage is only for two people. When one of you puts another person ahead of your marriage, that's an affair. Whether you're sleeping together or not.

Good definition to live by...to know your marriage boundaries...protects the marriage even when you don't want to protect your H (if you're angry, resentful, etc.) You can honor your marriage even when you don't feel like honoring your H. And vice versa.

Can you see now why you believe your H of being unfaithful? He's putting other things, which are people, ahead of your marriage. He creates and holds resentments for your LBs...read up on the 15 hours of Undivided Attention (UA)...and understand you're not crazy. Do not allow yourself to have your needs met by others when your H isn't meeting them...that's your choice, about you, and who you don't want to be, I'm sure.

You also got how you got to this particular place...very fast, great learner in you...because you put children before marriage. Many of us did this...we're taught to do this...and it is really destructive, isn't it? See, nuturing and honoring a marriage takes time and boundaries, even with our children. And it is healthy for them to know the priority order. Why? Because our marriage is the most important thing they learn from...everything about life comes from how you treat each other, respect and consider one another...if you put your children first, then they do not learn these things...do they?

All words, no examples. I've been there. I did that. Until I stopped doing that.

You're also facing being married with young children...which takes a lot of time and a high awareness of your priorities...and you barely have the energy left...you're normal. You're not defective or wrong, Bosbo.

Know that.

Neither is your H.

You don't ruin evenings...you choose to hold onto and act from your feelings...would you consider you believe in 50/50...he gives half, you give half...you give to get; you earn love? Because you do, you expect him to?

You're about to learn how to live in freedom, responsibility and love...a whole new way to believe; and by changing your beliefs, you change your marriage.

Last thing you recognize which is MARVELOUS...you are now obsessed with your marriage...well, you're facing losing it, so that's understandable. And it brought you here, where we happily share what we learned...so maybe you can obsess in a healthier way.

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You cannot give him a positive outlook or convince him...no human has that power over any other. You can do Plan A, which is being authentic, eliminating LBs (which you do for you, because you don't want to be a disrespectful person); you identify his ENs; you do amends for your part, your actions...you own your own stuff and respect that H is responsible for his.

You learn that maybe you both thought you completed each other...which is not healthy...instead of complementing one another, which is...you are whole, Bosbo, complete and in no way defective. God didn't make no junk. Learn and know this about yourself...and see your H the same way.

Inject respect into your marriage. Learn to communicate all over again with listen and repeat. Lots of stuff you can do and examine in yourself...

Marriage is a dance...when you change, the steps change...and that changes everything.

Welcome!

LA

Update:
My husband is on a trip to Vegas for a convention for the union. I have vowed to myself not to bring up any of our problems and just let him have a good time. Each time I talk to him, I am chipper and stress to him how happy I am that he has this time away. He usually works 7 days a week and rarely gets time off.

One of our time issues is the fact that I am going back to work which is day shift and he works second shift. I am going back to work to assist in finances and to have something outside of the house. I guess what upsets me about all of the changes I am willing to make and he isn't even willing to come home and just see what happens. I have so much hope that it can work. I guess after 15 years of being together, I feel it's worth fighting for and giving it one last go. Now that we have identified our problems, it's only gonna take a little bit of effort.

I have suggested counseling and he just doesn't seem all that excited about it, and where does that time come from?

I know he wants to do things for himself. He says that work, school, and union steward make him happy and make him feel important. I don't know if he's going through a midlife crisis or if he's having a set back emotionally from his father's death. I have suggested him getting couseling and I think it offends him a little. He says that I am trying to "blame" him just like I always make everything out to be his fault. It was just a suggestion for his own well being but he took it as an insult.

Suggesting counseling isn't for him...both of you...In fact, "I would like for us to go together. I feel fear and though I know I value my marriage more than anything in my life, my fear may get in my way."

You guys have played the blame game a long time...seeing where it is and where it isn't...he can feel you're making it his fault when you aren't (and you know this)...but can you see where you feel rejection from him where it isn't?

Respect his choices and hand them back to him, "I hear you saying you hear me blaming you, is that correct?"

"I hear you saying you feel at fault again when you are not, is that correct?"

Really respectful stuff...no assumptions or DJs...makes a world of difference. Are you in Plan A, then? Which means you are searching in you for LBs, knowing ENs, researching and studying...if there is an affair, then investigate for real proof (don't ask him), and then expose...if there isn't and this is MLC, have you studied it?

The Harleys here phone counsel...from your home. Might consider it for the time limitation and hand-holding...

LA

Respect is key. Suggesting counseling for the sake of your M may be the best thing for your H.

I had a slight sense that my H was having an affair but I refused to believe it. Luckily my H and I had scheduled an appt with a marriage therapist. The night before the appt, I found evidence from OW. The next day at therapy/ counseling I confronted him. H didn't admit to it until I brought out the evidence.

Counseling was the best thing that helped me see the truth. Counseling helped my H be truthful. I think having a neutral third party was very helpful. My H kept blaming me for the separation and little did I know that it was because of the A. If it wasn't for the counseling, I would have still been in the dark because I trusted him too much. This false trust fed the A.

What would be a good way to ask him to come home and work on our marriage? I don't want him to think I am being pushy.

Maybe something like:

"Are we gonna make this work?"
"Are you coming home so we can make our marriage work?"
"Will you come home so we can start rebuilding our love for each other?"

I don't like using the kids in trying coax him back, even though I want to say, it's best for the kids if we stay together. He thinks we can be better parents if we're not together. I just don't understand the logic in that.

So I'm trying to think about the way I say things and how they sound. I know that sometimes the way I say things sounds like it's negative or blaming.

My experience was of going to MC before WH chose to move home.

MC asked what my goal was...I said to save my marriage. My WH said to decide to work on the marriage or end it. Good to know.

Why are you choosing to make your goal getting him home to work on the marriage when he isn't choosing either one right now? Why not make your goal to ask for counseling in the way above or say, "I would like to go to counseling to find out if I want to work on our marriage or end it now."

Your truth is what matters here...you can't coax or guilt him back...that's disrespectful judgment...You can say, "I am fully committed to working on our marriage for my own growth and our children's sake."

You don't have to understand his logic...you have to respect it. It's his opinion, not fact.

Can you see how you believe you can make him and he can make you...either in subtle or demanding ways? If your intent is pure...to be respectful...do you want to be a respectful person, Bosbo? To yourself and to others?

Being enmeshed...this entwining we do in marriage...is so messy, I had to start right there...with respect...because I couldn't unravel all of it at once...this was huge and made all the difference.

LA

Update and looking for some addtional advice! My husband got home from Vegas and we spent the day together. Started out well, I had been holding back on talking to him about our relationship during his trip, I wanted him to enjoy himself and not feel like I was trying to ruin his day. So I held back all of the things that were going through my mind and let them all out today. I had made a list of things I wanted to talk about and he agreed to talk with me about them. I mentioned to him about Plan A and Love Bank. Told him I wasn't asking him to move back home, just to try some things that could work on our marriage. He agreed to try. Which is a good thing because he has been so reluctant up until now. Our agreement is after today, no more relationship talk, no more pointing out each others faults, just friendly talk about every day things. I told him it would be a lot like we were dating.

OW - I asked him about how much he had talked to her during his trip. Not to my surprise - every day! He said she would call 2 or 3 times during the day and he would explain to her that he couldn't talk right now, he would call her back. I just thought it was a little disrespectful of her to interrupt his trip for things she could have gotten help with right here in town. He said that he probably talked to her more than he talked to me. So I asked him to limit contact with her, for the sake of what we are trying to do. He was open to that request. The only problem is that my husband is a union steward and it is his job to answer questions that workers might have and of course she has been pretty needy since she has worked there the last year. I can't tell him to have NO contact with her. If she has a problem, he has to help her. I asked him if he thought maybe she was looking for more than just friendship and he said I don't know. I asked if she understood that even though he is separated, he is not interested in a relationship. He said that he had told her that. He told me that most of what they talk about is work related. I guess I just feel that she is up to something. I can understand friends of the opposite sex, but our marriage's troubles has somehow made her think she can call him anytime day or night. I mentioned to him that what he is doing is considered an EA and he said yeah, I guess so. But he has agreed to let her know in some way that he would like for her to call less and for work issues only. I guess we will see what happens with that. He is looking to run for union President next year and he is trying to be as successful at his job as possible, he has to help his workers.

So we have agreed to no more relationship talk and to concentrate on present and possible future. He said that if I mentioned anything, he would leave. I told him I thought that was fair. We have talked this crap up one wall and down the other and it's not getting us anywhere.

Should I be asking him if and how much he has been talking to her?

Spent Father's Day with husband and today went very well! We grilled out, we swam, watched a movie and everyone had a good time! Something I wander about is sex. I would think since it's an EN it would be ok. Any comments?

In my opinion, sex is not good if the spouse has a sexual relationship with someone else. I would not agree unless your husband gets tested.

Have you exposed his affair?

He hasn't had an A..He has been very honest and says that it's nothing but a friendship.. I believe him..One of the major reasons he hasn't come home is because of his busy schedule and he tells me that I need to find someone who has the time for me..He says he isn't interested in another relationship.. He has been open in telling me things that he and OW talk about..I just think that maybe she is looking for more even though he isn't..

Post deleted by bosbo

Advice please.. I need opinions on what my boundaries are! Thanks!

Are you ABSOLUTLEY sure he is not having an A?

My WH denied it to my face, and I believed him. He's now living with OW, still claiming they are "just friends". And I positively now know it's an A.

I don't have proof either way..The only thing I know is what the cell phone bill says and what he tells me..But when he's not working, he's usually spending time here or with the kids..I believe that at this point, he has no reason to lie..right?

bosbo, I think you should do some snooping and find out one way or the other. My WH lied to my face countless times about a "friend". I would talk to your MIL and find out what the phone call was about. Listen to your gut instinct. Don't confront you (W?)H now. Observe gather information cell phone bills, ATM receipts, Credit Card receipts, who was he in Vegas w? Can you prove it? Are you in plan A?

We are in Plan A.. He was in Vegas with another co-worker.. I know that is who he was with because they were picked up from my mother-in-laws house and the car was parked there..It's not easy to do much snooping, he normally pays with cash and it's hard to follow him with 2 small children..They're usually in bed when he gets off of work.. He works 2pm-10:30pm..He notices my car right away..We was waiting out for him one night and he immediately saw us when he came out of the door and down the parking lot..I guess deep down I was and wasn't hoping to see something, if that makes any sense..

Do you have a set of keys to his car? Can you search it while he is sleeping? Where does he park his car at work? If you were to drop something off at the car would someone see you?Can you borrow a friends car? Do you have or can you get a voice activated digital recorder? Do you know when she usually calls?

I tried following my WH with a friend in her car while my mom sat w/ the kids. It was like an episode of I love Lucy. He ended up following me...we didn't catch him doing anything that night...but my friend and I had a good laugh.

I do have keys to his truck..I don't know about the recorder..I'm just a little worried that if I get caught it could ruin any chances we have at getting back together..But if he is telling me the truth he might think that I don't trust him at all..

I understand your ambivilance, but it is necessary to snoop right now.

WH swore to me NOTHING was going on, just friends, a co worker. Only had cell phone records with numerous calls to OW at the time to go on. He made me feel like I was crazy accusing him! I recently found out he is in a full blown A!

If he has nothing to hide, he will hide nothing!