While I don't disagree with your "scentiment", this is a battle that cannot be won where I live. On the other hand, ever spent much time in France? They don't bath much either. They just go with the eau (de toilette).

Actually many of the perfumes here are quite disgusting and cloying. For many people, the BO is preferable to their attempts to hide it.

Then again, why are we even talking about this? Yeech!

I can't remember why we're talking about it.

Oh, I brought it up with your "maid table".

Pio, I know you don't hold out much hope. I didn't (couldn't because they're in Spanish) read all of gemela's posts but I REALLY think you are doing the right thing here.

I think it's a Plan B that will work. I mean, really, the pool guy, come on.

I know I sound pessimistic but if I didn't have any hope, I would be filing for divorce.

I just wanted to say thanks for your support. I has now and in the past meant a lot. Now you get no more nice from me ever because tears are welling in my eyes and I hate that.

Oh shoot, I do that to people. I'm sorry.

Let's get back to BO. Much safer.

I actually have to go, Rob's held up in traffic but will be here very soon and it's dinner time.

Pio - doesn't everyone pee in the shower? Bath no, shower yes! Swimming pool no, sea yes. But as long as you hose down the shower after - what's the difference between wife or maid on that point.

You might have a bit of trouble culturally with an Ethiopian maid and how she brings up your children. Has she worked for westerners before?

As for BO, I live in the sweatiest of climates from Jun-Sept. We have 95% humidity most of the time. Yet the Chinese people don't smell at all. They don't use deo much but their body chemistry is so different. On the underground train in London in Summer it is rank, but here it is totally inoffensive. But you go into the Indian shops for spices and things and they have a really strong body odour. Can't be just a food thing cos the Chinese eat stacks of garlic. TT

Well if they don't, they should. They have no idea what they are missing.

I had a friend years ago who made the observation that he and his wife were the only ones who ever used their bath house. All their friends and neighbors could come over and be in the pool for hours and never have to get out of the pool to pee. He became quite obsessed with this. He asked me what to do so I recommended he lace the pool water with phenylthalene as a pH indicator. That way the water would turn pink around a person if they peed in the water. It was a good plan. Unfortunately phenylthalene has "side effects". Don't they know you aren't supposed to "drink" the pool water? Bath house got a lot of use though.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

My son has been pulling this lately. The toilet in his bathroom broke and I have been meaning to get around to figuring out how to fix it. It used to run all time so I went out and bought new parts and WH installed them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Ummmmmmm, okay, thanks bud, but I'm back to square one.

Anyhow, there ARE two other bathrooms in the house but in the middle of the night it is apparently too much of a trip for the little lad. I was horrified when I realized what was going on. The kid can pitch a strike right over home plate but can't seem to get his little winky in the ballpark of a urinal. Revoking priviledges, threats, etc. nothing works. I had to bite my tongue from saying I was going to cut that thing off if he couldn't find the toilet bowl.

Regarding the BO, I know it is our culture. But being born of said culture, I cannot tolerate the odor. I can't understand how it doesn't bother them. It's not a pleasant odor, like flowers. And the garlic? Not a pretty picture you are painting here.

It is very interesting though how we always think "our way" is the right way. I believe this very same concept contributes to the downfall of many a marriage.

I want share with you my experience but I have strong reason to not do it here in public. Could you give me an email?

I am not joking about elevator BO. They do have it. It is odd though that no matter who the people are, what their individual BO is like, elevator BO is always the same. My last house in Dubai was four floors and had its own elevator. It took weeks to get the BO out.

An email address for me is robertleecox@hotmail.com

I will check it in the morning. It is not an address I use very much.

curly17,

I checked my email. You aren't trying to sell me cialis are you? If not, I haven't gotten anything. I'll check again later.

LOL, Pio you are a very funny man in your own dry way.

That was not a very pretty picture you painted of your wife on tear's thread. You painted a picture of a very shallow woman. Is that how you really feel?

I was extremely nice to WW this weekend because it was her birthday. There were several times where that was really difficult. My WW is a twin. Her sister is responsible and takes care of her family. The SIL only has six pairs of shoes. I look at gold and think what I could do for my DDs. I did get them an inflatable water slide. The slide was just about the same price as a white gold bracelet. WW doesn't need these adornments to be pretty. I don't know why she feels she does. Yes the bracelets really bothered me. I don't know why. I think my WW has become spoiled. I think she buys things to try to make herself happy. I just view it differently. The woman I married would not act that way.

We talked a little about the separation. I told her that I honestly believed she would never come back. I told her she needed to find something that would really make her happy. I didn't think it was me. I told her she was welcome to come back, I wanted her to come back but only if she was really finally ready to work on our marriage. If not, I would be just fine without her. That mad her sad and she cried. I didn't apologize. I just worked to lighten the mood and finally succeeded.

I think Plan B will be such a welcome relief. I need a break from this Plan A. I told her that I believed she would get to Mexico and spend time with her family but that sooner or later she would get sad and lonely and she would dial up OM. I told her I really wished she would give it a go with him and see if she could work it out. She has already destroyed her marriage and her family. Seems a shame to stop now and always wonder what she might have had with OM. I told her that when she is in Mexico, we will not be talking at all. She asked why. I said that we each needed our time and space without complications. I told her that we only have a few weeks left together and that I want to spend them pleasantly.

She asked if I wanted to talk about the A. I said it was too late for that. She has had a whole year and has continually avoided it. If she is not willing to help me heal, I'll do it on my own. This was not said in anger. It was all very calm.

Anyway, six more weeks to hold me breath.

Well I filled up the double door to the office yesterday. I did a great job BTW. Spent an hour and a half ripping 2/4's down to 2.5" wide but it was worth it. We moved everything out of the office and made a bedroom for the Amazon woman maid. We rearranged the living, dining room and bedroom to accommodate the loss of one room of the house. WW was sad. She said she hoped we were doing the right thing. I told her that we had tried everything else and this was all that was left. She needed to find something that would make her happy. I reminded her that she says she has never loved me, that I have never made her happy. She cannot continue to live in this misery and I cannot continue to live with a woman who I love but doesn't love me. I told her that she should give it a go with OM. It seems a shame to have destroyed her family, marriage, religious faith only to stop short. Go all the way. She said that maybe it wasn't real. Maybe it really was just a fantasy. I told her that as long as she still believed in it, there was only one way to find out.

I told her that even though I had never made her happy, she had made me blissfully happy for 8 years and I would not trade those 8 years for anything. I told her that the last two have been a living he11 that I will never go through again.

Believer,

If you read this, I just wanted to say that what you predicted seems to be coming true.

Yesterday I got some bread and folded the bag back under and placed it back on the shelf. WW told me to get that bag back out and tie it. She inherited from her mother an inhuman ability to tie very small knots. I cannot do it. I got mad. Very mad. I told her that she could tie it herself if she wanted to and handed her the bag and I left the room. She came up later and tried to make light of it. I let the anger pass. This morning I simply told her if she doesn't like the way I fold the bread bag, she can stop throwing away the twisty ties, she can buy a tupperware breadbox, she can do a lot of things but I never want to hear another word about tying a knot in the bag ever again. She said "okay".

curly17,

Still looking for your email. Not knowing what your email address will be, I have unfortunately purchased a 5 year supply of cialis (don't need it yet anyway) and two different systems to lose 25 pounds in 30 days. I really don't like hotmail. Spam filters just don't work.

Actually, now that I think about it, I am going to lose 110 lbs in 30 days.

I just had to do a google search to check out Cialis. Never heard of it before.

Pio - Your actions will bring her back to you. I'm pretty sure by letting her go, she'll wallow in misery and realise what she is missing. Meanwhile, way to go with the Amazon lady. I hope she cooks a mean curry and is kind to your little girls. TT

Well, it's a darn good thing I stumbled onto your new thread. I last saw you in the Suzet* thread. Are you aware that KiwiJ. puts a . after her name? Talk about tricky! Much more subtle than *.

For the record, I am no "boy toy". I am a "man toy" and Pio knows it.

I stay away for two weeks and come back to find you peeing in the shower and arguing over twisty ties on a bread bag. Good thing I returned.

Pio, when you told WW that you didn't want to live with a woman whom you loved but she didn't love you, what did she say? Did she counter that in fact she did love you? Or was her silence deafening?

SIL thinks WW needs to go to Mexico, right? Does SIL have a vision of a healing trip to Mexico or an escape from SA?

TT,

Maybe I spelled it wrong. I'll let you know for sure in two weeks when my 6 different 60 day supplies (plus 60 day bonus free for being one of the first 1000 to repond) arrive. I am guessing, by context, that it is a sex enhancing drug. Or hair regrowth. Or weight loss. Must be one of those things to be on my hotmail account.

ToddAC,

I can give up peeing in the shower but the bread bag knot is a deal breaker. I have personally done experiments by measuring relative humidty inside and outside the bag to compare the efficiency of sealing from twisty ties, knots and folds. Relative humidty is a good indication of air exchange. I find folds just as efficient as anything else.

She did not say anything. Her silence was not deafening either. I get the impression she realizes she has dug herself into a very deep hole and does not know how to get out of it. She knows she has lied so much that I can't believe her no matter what she says. I think that is why she stays silent. She wants to say things but realizes she doesn't know how IMO.

SIL AFAIK is staying out of it. I don't know what she wants nor do I care. I would guess that SIL is just glad that WW is going to Mexico rather than England.

A few minutes ago I was lying on the couch after lunch and WW came in to see if I was ready to go back to work. We commented over the filled in door and how well it turned out. I said the only thing I was not happy about was the stairmaster in the living room. She said she wasn't either. I replied that she did not have to worry about it much longer but I did and I laughed. She looked sad.

You didn't actually laugh did you?

Why don't you give her a way out? Perhaps the threat of separation will snap her back to reality?

RE: peeing in the shower is unappreciated I believe. I am done it since puberty. It is a very warm feeling. One of these days, I may even try it with the water running.

Some words are just too hard to write. I think you are taking "laugh" too seriously. I am not into lexicon as you are so you may have to help. It certainly wasn't a harumph and I don't think it was a chortle but mainly that is because I don't really know what chortle means. Snicker? No - that is too sinister. It was just a little lighthearted sound (half-laugh?) to let her know that I was not reporaching her in any way and that I was treating the moment with good humor (humour for TT) in a good natured way.

I have been trying to give her opportunities for the past year. I am done in. She needs time to be alone and decide what she wants in her life. I need time to be alone to try and heal from the A. She refuses to help me and she continues to hurt me. The lasagna incident was classic and reminded me how little respect she has for me and my feelings. If WW never loved me, I never had a marriage to try to save anyway. As Myrta said, my marriage was "kaput" a long time ago. Now we just have to deal with the fallout.

Will she be taking all of her shoes with her?