Thanks MEDC.

I am only sorry my DDs are going through it. I would do anything I could to prevent that. I know that the next few months are going to be especially hard on them and I have to be here for them. It is hard to know the right thing to say sometimes. This is virgin territory. Last night DD1 threw a tantrum and said some bad things to both of us. I told her it was okay for her to be angry and I understood that but she needed to be more careful about the things she said and did while angry (okay - pot/kettle I know). So we finally agreed that she could still be angry but she read me a bedtime story anyway and kissed me goodnight and then went to sleep. I think being a single parent is going to keep me very busy.

Pio, not a lot to say. You're doing the best you can under difficult circumstances.

The more time that elapses between when I saw the OM and now, the more I realise I have the best man. Rob is quadruple, no trilliluple (I just made that word up) the man that OM is.

When the fantasy disappears, the reality is amazing.

Please let gemela find this out for herself. I'm asking God that BTW not you.

Whichever way this goes, your DDs have you and they could do a lot worse. That's a compliment by the way.

Hey KiwiJ.

Thanks for the words of support. I am really holding up okay. Last night was hard but we knew it would happen. It will get better.

To be quite honest, I think (I am sure I have posted this before) that gemela could quite easily go to Mexico, spend time with her family, talk to her mother, confess to her priest and eventually have a lightbulb moment and come to her senses. Anything can happen. I am just not trying to be too hopeful. My mindset is for an extended separation. If it turns out to be short-lived, great. I am in no way intending this to be a "punishment" for WW. How could I do that to my girls? I still love WW very much. I have realized that lately. I will miss her very much. There just doesn't seem to be any other good alternative.

To be honest, I don't think WW spends every night crying herself to sleep over the swimming instructor. But I do think she is still caught in the fantasy of the A. I think she is more in love with being in love than with an OP. I liked hiker45's post this AM. It was encouraging and discouraging at the same time. I think WW just needs to step back and look at things as objectively as she can and then decide what she wants.

One thing is for sure. I have come to the conclusion that I absolutely hate infidelity. There is just no good outcome from it in that somebody always gets hurt.

That's what our MC said. Everyone gets hurt. The BS's the WS's.

She said if people knew what was in store for them they wouldn't do it. But repeat performances from people and the fact that BS's can become WS's sort of proves her wrong, unfortunately.

It was so illuminating being inside gemela's head when she was posting here. I'd love to know what's inside it now and I'm sure you would too.

I am going to respond to this comment in case it might be useful to some other BS. Basically this is not true at the moment. It was true six months ago but now I feel it is a double-edged sword. I think we are making a good decision on separation based on all the known facts. What is in her head may not be fact (or it might be). But knowing what she is thinking at this moment could very well be counterproductive for long term recovery possibilities (i.e. might influence the decision process).

I don't know for sure one way or the other and I can't. She could tell me she is totally committed to the M, over the A, etc. but then I would be faced with the dilemma of whether or not I could believe she was telling the truth or simply a lie to keep things as they are. I have thought long and hard on this particular issue which is why I feel compelled to post on it.

I can't say what might be right for others but, in my case and under my circumstances, I really don't care to know what gemela is thinking at the moment. I do hope to ask her in the future what she was thinking during this time. I hope I get the chance.

Yet it could be the key to everything.

If it was honest. What does she have to lose anymore by not being honest?

What does she stand to lose by lying? Herein lies the rub.

I understand your point completely. The problem is that she has lost all credibility. How can we overcome that? Lie-detector test? (and yes that thought did occur to me)

I think, at this point, this might be our most fundamental problem - how to tell the truth from the lie.

I cannot find the solution to this no matter how hard I try.

That is something all WS's will always have to face. Never being believed again.

In the end it's the actions that count and ONLY the actions that count. Total transparency and walking the talk.

Very True Pio.

My wife is livid with OM now. Next stop indifference. (I hope)

Indifference is wonderful.

I don't care if it is wonderful or not <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> (I think I am indifferent about indifference - which is wonderful - the indifferent - not the indifference that is)

I know you're being funny - I think.

It is the best state to be in. No emotion either way.

Anyway, have to go.

How can I get to indifference? Can I mapquest it? Which state is it???

I need to get to destination indifference to eliminate the pain...at least for a while

Once you get there can you leave or is it terminal???

Although some believe it is in Texas, indifference is actually in the state of Nervana. There are two ways to get there. One is to allow sufficient time. The second is to follow the three-legged dog theory. While the second method is faster, it requires greater discipline.

Ok, I'm not good with time...impatience is my middle name!

I have to admit, I Googled the 3 legged dog theory and still am at a loss...care to elaborate???

Ah Ha...maybe I should have read the theory prior to my out of body experience last night and could have prevented some serious drama.

Hit the breaking point and in a rage triggered by lies demanded H get out and even called all kids to have him explain why he would be leaving. Asked him to leave 3 wk ago and he refused...didn't want to traumatize children and says still wants M but no actions to back it up.

Says he has known what he needs to do to rebuild M but to this point he states he has consciously chosen not to do it...

Says he does not want to destroy family and will not leave; says he'll live in the basement if I can't stand to see him

If we are going to survive I need to spin the box as you stated in the 3 legged dog theory and find a view I can live with...

I am deep in the anger phase of the grief process...it suddenly appearred one day last week and I've been internally psycho since

How have you lasted so long in your sitch...really the theory and goal of being there for your girls?

My H said I was selfish for telling the kids about potential separation/D...thinks I should put up with anything to spare the kids...admits he is wrong and actually told all kids that this was all b/c Daddy likes to spend time with OW and not Mommy. My 5yr old may be the next SH...she conducted a mock court session using a hair brush for a gavel and interrogated both of us..."tell one thing you don't like about daddy...ok, now your turn dad. Dad you know you can't date chicks when your married, that equals D..." this went on for at least 20 minutes and the child was right on target about everything.

I told my H that I may have prematurely exposed kids to trauma but his actions and choices resulted in these consequences.

H says this AM he wants to try to slowly work on M by starting to be nice to me and see where it leads without any other conditions/issues etc for now...

I'll be spinning the box today!

Thanks for the insight...I know you must be challenged as well, but I am guessing you have great discipline!

I did this very thing. I was hard on us all. I did it after I caught her on a secret cell phone she had hidden in the closet and I read the love messages on it.


That is pretty common – especially very soon after Dday. I think it took my WW about 8 months after Dday before she started showing any real interest and only after about 4 months of NC. It takes time.


Does her state WHY he has chosen not to do it? Does he even understand why?


Good. The longer he stays in your home, the better your chances of recovery.


Anger is a part of the process. It goes away. It comes back. It ebbs and flows. You think it is gone forever and some innocuous trigger brings it blazing back. I recently went ballistic over lasagna pasta.


I think the girls have kept me in it to this point. If it weren't for them, I would definitely be separated or divorced. I still love WW but she has not really put forth much effort so I am very tired of it all. I just want to keep my DD's as happy as possible and that includes self-sacrifice. That is part of the job of being a parent. My children didn't ask me to bring them into this world. That was my choice. I have to take complete ownership of the consequences.


Maybe you were selfish. Were you? On the other hand, WH has no right to tell you how to behave since you apparently had no right to tell him to not have an affair. WH has to accept you just as you do him. Why did you tell the kids? That is not a criticism. Just an honest question. What was your goal?


Absolutely. Spot on. Root cause analysis.


Why does he dictate the process? Why don't you have a say? I wouldn't push too hard. It will take both of you a serious amount of time. But you two need to POJA the process.


You can rationalize anything if you look at it right. Just remember that there are hundreds of people here who swore they would never tolerate an A and yet they are committed to working on their marriages. They are no different from you. You can get there mentally. You just need to navigate the grief process.


I think you might be wrong. Actually I do have great discipline – I just have no patience.

P,

***I exposed the kids to the potential separation with the goal of making it real to H. At that moment I wanted him out, didn't think I could take another minute in the same space...I feel like H uses kids as his free pass to behave however he wants b/c he knows I would never intentionally hurt them. I hate what happened last night but I'm not sure if I could do it over I wouldn't do it but just in a more calm and controlled environment. I think it may be real now.

***Why does he choose not to take the necessary steps to rebuild? He says it is b/c he has to give me more than he does other people. He can be superficial, fake, happy and not give more than that to others and they praise, admire and love him. I expect more and it hurts him to have to dig deep and get in touch with his emotions. He has had alot abuse and death in his past and has repressed everybit of it. I think I represent the pain and sufferring he knows he will go thru in having to deal with things that have happend over a decade ago. I think he has hit that point in his own personal journey and is at a crossroads of do I continue to repress or try to heal. I just happen to be in the road.

***Yep, I was selfish in forcing the drama last night. I admit it and have mixed emotions about it. I am all about my kids but our problems have been affecting them much more than H knows he is gone 18 hours 5d/wk (by choice) and 6-8 hr/d on w/e. He is overly involved with work and is "trying to find balance". He was stay-at-home dad for 10 yr and just this yr is back to work and doing awesome but at the expense of all of us. I support his career as he has done mine for past 10 yr but I never lost sight of my family and always spent family time everyday regardless.
I have the same expectations of H. He says he is struggling with this.

I have been the dictator for years regarding our family mostly b/c H doesn't like to make decisions. I guess maybe it's a powerstruggle as far as him setting the conditions for rebuilding??? I tried to set boundaries and conditions but totally ineffective since he could have cared less and that's why he says he knows exactly what he needs to do.

I said that I felt like he should be bending over backwards to prove to me A over and he is committed to M...he agreed but stated he chose not too up to this point. Don't know what the future holds and not sure he has a clue. I had asked for a recovery plan, asked for MC or at least him in IC...this was all weeks ago. Been plan Aing thru two A's in past 4 months with #2 ended 3wk ago.

I've followed your thread and can relate to most of what you have been through...I'm just about a year behind from your sitch.

Gotta run and get DS to camp...check in later!

I have a bunch of threads.

first thread

2nd thread

3rd thread

4th thread

5th thread

Go have a read. I'm not proud of it all but it is public record.