When we were packing for the airport in Orlando, I told her over and over that she was not allowed any liquids or gels in her carry-on bag. We got to the inspection and she cried as she had to throw away creams and makeup. No matter the circumstances, she never believes that rules apply to her.

I agree with Bigger that there are some big issues here and Gemela's vanity and focus on her appearance is way beyond normal. Pio, I wonder what part you've played into turning her into this prima donna. From watching the interaction between you two, it seems like a deep, meaningful connection is missing.

Although her poolboy was obviously a little [censored], he was probably saying things to her that made her feel loved and wanted -- as transparent as it is to all of us from the outside that he was just using her or that there was no depth...at the time, it probably felt genuine to her and that someone was in love with her and respected her. If you can somehow remove yourself from the infantile nature of her affair and see what it tells you about Gemela, you might be able to find the key to forming a deeper connection with her and a happier marriage for both of you.

I know that you're angry and that you're sick of this whole thing, but I've had this feeling that you are very hard to approach -- especially for a woman like her. If you decide to stay in this marriage, you need to show her a reason to stay with you beyond the country club lifestyle. If she looks at you solely as a way to stay with her girls and maintain her shopping addiction (which seems to bring out the worst in her and make her more self absorbed and more affair-prone), then it looks like a pretty grim future for both of you. You need to show some softness and connect with her -- make her feel loved for herself and become her friend and confidante. Explain to her what you need to recover -- which seems to be honesty and answering all the questions about the affair to begin with. Then, start talking openly with each other and explore what this has taught you about yourselves and each other. She needs to trust you with her feelings and not feel degraded and ridiculed.

My biggest concern is what you two are doing to your girls. I know you're bright and that you're a big boy, but you two have got to get this under control. This damage to your kids is permanent and it has to stop. The way you can repair as much as possible, is for them to see you two develop a real relationship and see their mom blossom. There has to be more to her than this obsession with her appearance. I'd try to help her to discover what it is, so that she can become a better person who can set a good example for your girls and who can become secure and happy enough to age gracefully in a mature relationship.

While I agree with Pio should not treat G with *ongoing* disrespect, it needs to be recognized that Pio has carried out a decent Plan A for a YEAR! As someone once said, Plan A is like eating 500 calories and running 10 miles a day. Sure, you will loose weight but...

The soft "meet G's needs" approach did not work, at least not to any kind of meaningful degree. Maybe it was the setup for the latest volley in the get real baby happenings.

What did G see in PoolBoy? Here's my guess: a young guy with no reponsibilities and not a care in the world except for bedding as many married women as he can. Theirs was a sophmoric relationship but full of misplaced passion. Remember the cards that G kept as momentos that she "meant to throw away"? A young G, perhaps laden with the idea of motherhood and marriage tying her down found that combination irresitibable. Pio cannot compete with that. Why? Well, he has a family, a real job and goals other than poaching married women.

So, Pio, what do do now? I would keep the indifference going. It seems to be the only thing shaking her back to reality. I agree with the Big that it is time to check disrespect at the door but I disagree with his contention that you must decide what you want. You decided that long time ago. The person who still has the decision in front of them is G.

Good news is I believe you and G are finally on the path to R. I believe she will accompany you and DD's back to SA.

Others: Pio is intelligent and logical. He also has the burden of being an engineer, but we should mistake what he says here for the way he conducts himself with G and the girls. After exchaning, oh, about 800 emails with him, I can tell you that he is considerate, caring and a pretty decent human being. Let's not loose focus of his needs in this onging soap opera.

And Pio, a little practical advice. It is important that you AND G show DD's the best vacation you can. Perhaps to take your mind off your troubles, you should buy a new pair of shoes. But get a pair two sizes too small. Guarnteed to take your mind off what ails you.

I think maybe all the opinions hold a grain of truth. ToddAC is right in that I am probably not nearly as bad as I sometimes seem although I am certainly capable of rising to the occasion. I also think gemela is afraid to approach me about the A. She says it is because she doesn't want to hurt me any more. I remind her that the only thing that hurts me now is the lies. If she would be totally honest, things would be much better. I think I am being respectful of her at the moment and am still keeping my Plan A on autopilot. It really isn't even a plan any more. I respect her because she is my wife and a person and she deserves that. Every time I start to get angry about the A, I just pull up the photos and I get a laugh. My one year anniversary was really hard for me. I could hear her voice in my head as we had that fateful phone conversation. Don't worry about revenge affairs. I never forget I have HPV and I don't want to give it to anyone else ever.

Hi Pio,

I can see why you miss your 'buddy' Todd.... if you were forced to name one good thing out of this whole mess...... I suspect having your 'buddy' in your corner is one of them

...I don't suppose Todd is an engineer, too.....are you, Todd?

Why do I feel as if I just got called to the principal's office?

No, not an Engineer. Originally a physics major. Physics was my great love from the sixth grade. I was very young as a college freshman and got tangled up with an older coed named Barbara. It went downhill from there and passion gave way to prudence.

BTW, a little aside here. My middle son's best friend graduated from Georgia Tech with a Physics degree. This kid finished with a 4.0 which is not an easy feat at Tech. He also had scored a 1,600 SAT, but then who didn't, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, his case demonstrates why I abandoned physics. He only has an undergraduate degree. As bright as he is, no job without an advanced degree. So guess what he does for a living? He gambles through online poker games. Makes several hundred dollars daily. Studied the odds and become a victor. Kids today. Geez.

luv the small shoe idea...i would perhaps need something a bit more diversionary since the pain from my vehicle trauma hasn't successfully shut me up but in fact done the reverse. I however like Pio, after the initial lovebusting outburst made a decision with H to act accordingly for the sake of the children which works like a double edged sword. The kids are commenting...look you and daddy are getting along so well...all the while I am having H separate all business aspects of life from me so that in the future worst case scenario plan D there is less entanglement. We have been cordial to each other but this messes with my head and I find myself having expectations and getting sad and teary over the actual business steps toward separation.

I have to say that just like Pio's G, my H has suddenly made efforts to be more of a father to the kids...he even verbalized that his goal was to prove at the least that he is a good father. No mention of agenda as a spouse although he has told the children he does not want to leave but will do what mommy wants. No efforts toward transparency which incites my fury and leads me to believe I am making the right decision since no amount of plan A has made any difference and several false recovery attempts have only made me more bitter.

I am so very sad for my children, this is stressful to all but I hate it for them. I'm trying hard to keep it together but DD1 knows so much and has taken to trying to comfort me when she sees me sad. I can only imagine Pio's stress at the airport with the girls <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Bigger,
Don't you think things can get to a point where you can be respectful but detached until the WS proves their intention over time and with solid consistent evidence. Do you think detachment discourages the efforts of the WS? If you have been doing all the work for the entire time without any help from WS should you take it as motivation when they finally get ready to start helping? Aren't most BS's at the point of exhaustion/break when this happens? My biggest fear is that this time I allow myself to believe that recovery is possible, put myself out there, try to help H and then as has happened repeatedly...crush...betrayal, dishonesty, continued manipulation and lies...

pio

Im in a hurry but it was good to read you again, unfortunately not so good news...
I think finally you explote, you were agry for too much time, just tryin to be polite, and trying to give to your M a second chance...
As a human you have the right to be mad, and you were hearing lies for too much time, so you "reventaste".. just you know if your words for G were too much agressive or not...
I think for some reason you are still with her.. I dont know but you need to solve several things before to decide divorce or not..
Im worry about your DD's, its so hurting to cause pain to our D's because our A (I told this as a WS that I am) ...
Its devastating,.. I dont know how old is you d, that showed more pain in that moment, how old is she?
Im sure is the little one, she showed his pain, and what about the other daughter? how is reacting to all this? how old is she?
Our d's are innocents of all, and as a WS we are so stupids and egoistas because we never thought of this consecuences of our A...
I felt sick of myself...

Pio
Take a breath, dont decide anything until you got quiet...

"Despues de la tempestad viene la calma"

What a stand-up guy! So now, he has the table set that if he leaves, it's because it's what "mommy wants". I would act to diffuse this asap. The last thing you want is looking like the bad guy to your kids.


When were your DD(s)?



Nothing breaks my heart in all the messes I read here like children. Children are what separates the minor from the major leagues.

WOW! You rock Bigger! I think you hit the nail on the head. Pio, I also agree with the luggage issue. Yes, Gamela needs to grow up and take responsibility for her suitcases, but you going through them and throwing things out is not giving her the opportunity to be responsible for herself. She is a big girl and you need to start treating her as such. Let her deal with the over weight luggage. Let her dig threw and throw away.

Pio, are you ALWAYS the grown up, responsible one and she forever the naughty child? Maybe boytoy was Gamela trying to have a balance of power in a relationship. I don't know. I do know that women like powerful men, but not ones who dominate them. Is Gamela much younger than you? Is your relationship with her more of a parent/child?

M 1995
D-Day 1 1996 EA/PA
D-Day 2 1997 EA/?PA
D-Day 3 2003 EA/?PA lasting from 2002-2004 and then still occassional contact up to today
D-Day 4 3/06 EA/denies PA contact ended 4/06
D-Day 5 4/06 EA/denies PA contact ended 7/06
D-Day 6 5/06 EA's with 2 OW to present

Since 3/06 like a kid in candy store r/t job change and new roles. Plan A from suspected issues 3/06-end of 7/06. Requested H to leave 4 times; 4th time left for less than 48 hour.

Was awesome father for 10 years and very supportive H for career. Lost touch with each other when kids were toddlers and pretty much co-existed with no real emotional ties due to H's detachment from me emotionally...was getting EN's met by others despite my attempts. I was extrememly busy with work and trying to be a good mother and put his needs beneath kids and work however have always remained faithful and attempted to try things to reignite the marriage fires. H constant refusal for counseling etc.

Never have seen H like this before...complete and total alien for past 9 months...openly admits to all accussations except for PAs...although hides everybit of his life from me. I don't know what other route to take at this point and have to put my kids as the priority and try to protect them from any further stress. He was so good to them for so long they couldn't figure out why he dropped all of us like a hot potato for past 9 months.

UUUGGGGHHH...can't write more...too depressing

First of all, I know piojitos better than many would suspect. I have followed his story from the start and I think I referred him to MB (sorry all!). In fact, I think it was I who dragged Todd here from another site (double sorry all!!). Piojitos knows that when I am tough on him I’m like a father taking off his belt and saying “Son, this will hurt me more than you!”

I do believe you can be detached but respectful. I don’t believe you can be RECONCILING and detached though. I do believe you can be reconciling but also fully accepting that separation is a realistic and acceptable option if R does not work. What I do not believe is that you can R while still working on separation or still have a separation mentality.

So my issue with piojitos right now is this:

Great you tore her a new one. Communications is good, even loud communications. I guess she really realizes the situation now. Even better that you and her fully realize that detachment is a real threat and a real option. You now know the stakes. But if you don’t use this to move on you are just doomed to settle on a new emotional plateau. If that’s the case then all the work and all the pain is for nought.

So use this situation. You are not doing that by dominating her or showing her disrespect at the airport or by refusing to haul her baggage. Try to get to the bottom of what she wants out of this marriage. See if that fits with what you want. Like Todd says and we all know who have read your posts you are (reasonably) sensible.

I have told you before piojitos that I take issue with how your WW involved the DD in the affair. DD1 knows a lot more than is healthy for her. I don’t know how long a holiday you have but you have a traumatised family. I think all of you could do with some professional help and I know the options in Saudi are not good. Is this something you can look into? Will your company offer telephone consultancy or video-conferencing consultancy?

Boy, do YOU have a lot to answer for. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I can only reiterate what everyone else has said. The only concern right now is to make sure those girls feel secure and safe.

BTW, Shattered, I understand that Pio is 47 and Gemela is 35. I may be wrong.

I hate the new technology I always run in to when I come to the USA. It will soon get to the point where I will no longer be able to buy anything. I went to Home Depot to get a few things. Fortunately they still had one human checker that allowed me to get out of the store. It did take a while and gemela decided to sit down and rest while I was checking out. I always suspected that she was expensive but she accidentally sat on one of the electronic self-checkers and it scanned her. I now have confirmation of exactly how expensive she is!

LOL Pio

2much, that is one heck of a lot of d-days.

Okay bigger. Do I simply ask her what she wants out of the marriage?

I just told WW that I was glad she came to Houston. She gave me an incredulous look. I asked why. She said because I had made it clear that I did not want her to come. I said what I meant was that I was glad that she made the choice to come to Houston.

Piojitos - I really hope that you all can enjoy the rest of your vacation. Maybe you can put the relationship on the back burner and just have fun.

You have been working hard and going through a lot of stress for many months. Please try to really relax and be on VACATION.

Actually we are having a good time. At least I am. I think WW is a little ashamed to be here with my family. Maybe. She can just get over it. We are really doing fine. I don't know why but we really are.

She thanked me very much for her TRLT in Spanish.

Yes you can try that. Ask her.


I truly think you two are at a very important point right now. I think maybe this is exactly what your relationship needed.

I also agree with Believer. Try to enjoy the vacation and each other’s company if possible.