Me too.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a WW who didn't use this type of foggy excuse for an affair

Todd, that's why...if PLAN A doesn't work....PLAN B or 'distancing' oneself from WS is important..... a major WS trait is being selfish....so....the gloves are off... and a WS can do a LOT of damage if BS does not remove oneself.... because a WS will do whatever it takes to get BS to push them away.... it makes it easier to justify running to OP....



..I do believe that is necessary for a WS to do.... helps to avoid having to face the damage done.....


....I am not surprised....but remember, Todd....if you meet.... you have a 'soft' spot for her and she knows it... if she is still a WS.....she won't hesitate to 'manipulate' you to her advantage.... now....if there are signs of your W....with some 'consideration' for you.....that would be another story!

Now....I don't remember, Todd (again!).... what's your status.... PLAN B....plan D.... and her A with OM?

I am in PLAN B....prepared to meet with WS if and only if there is concrete evidence of end of A with OW! ...nothing... nothing... short of that (unless of course some real real emergency concerning our boys! .... because then... the 'tigress' in me will come out to protect her cubs! .....GGRRRRR!)

Sorry, buddy... will have to catch up with you tomorrow....

I think this is true for a WW who hasn't had her affair die a natural death. I have said this before. It's a fact that a WW who "falls in love" and ends the affair will always have feelings for their OM. Why else would NC for life be so important. Question is - "Can you live with that reality?" Even Harley says this is so in HNHN.

Now in our case my wife was "in love" and I busted up her affair. The OM did a pretty good job LB'ing her though before she returned home and since with some stunts he has been pulling with my kids.

Her feelings for him, according to her are gone. She is indifferent. But I think Harley understands my wife's mind better than she does and I think we will stick with NC for life. My wife may be right but I do think she will remain susceptible to him for a long time if not forever.

A while ago LowOrbit posted the following:

I could 100% relate to what Low said above since my EA also not died a natural death and since there are no withdrawals made from my “love bank” for him. However, I don’t sit around and “pine” after OM. Before the massive e-mail exchanges more than 2 months ago, I eventually succeeded in detaching from my feelings and assign it to "the past", but the e-mail contact of recently have opened up everything again and it took me a while to go through the detaching-process again. I'm not completely through this process again, but I'm working on it. I view it as part of the consequences of my recent behavior and betrayal towards my H.

It isn't so strange Suzet - I view it as straight Harley Love Bank 101. As much as I would like to think my wife has no feelings for OM, if you believe what Harley says about the Love Bank it's obvious before he even says it at the back of his book that feelings persist just below the surface awaiting contact or a re-ignition. Again NC is for life and is the only sure fire way of preventing re-kindling of the affair.

Look OM in my wife's case has done some serious damage to LB balance. She quite literally NEVER wants to see him ever again. He did track her down and corner her in a store recently - she totally freaked out - called me up straight away. But given the right conditions, say if our marriage wasn't doing so well, his marriage wasn't doing well, they crossed paths.... well she fell "in love" with him once before.... why not again.

This is why NC is so important and is for life.

I totally agree with the NC for life principal BigK… And I know it wouldn’t take me so long to get through withdrawal the first time around and I wouldn’t had a relapse recently if it wasn’t for the situation I still find myself in of working at the same company than OM.

I think the TKO issue was addressed on the very first page of the thread.

I am extremely angry that WW brought up the one week visit to OM. Of all the things she could have said, why was it that? Or why didn't she just keep her mouth shut. To be honest, since she said that, I am leaning to divorce. I can do much better than her.

Can anyone give me a possible explanation why WW would ask about the week visit to OM that is NOT what I think it is?

I thought Swept Away was an excellent movie, cast well and excellent direction.

I am told it is about shifting power within relationships. Do you agree?

I am not sure. I am scheduled for my first followup MRI in a couple of weeks. That will be the first glimpse to see if any progress - or is it regress - has been made. I think it is monthly MRI's after that.


Hmm... never thought of myself as a bad boy. I guess in some ways I am, but honestly, I am too sweet and considerate to be classified as such.

pio,

I dont understand...

For everyone's quick reference, here is Pio's post concerning his conversation with G at the airport.



I agree that her comment is worrisome. Either she was disappointed to learn that no, you were not serious about her meeting with OM or she just wanted to point out what she saw as you being inconsistent. I don't know. I would try to let it go. Regardless of her words, would you ever really know if she hooked up with OM again?

This reminds me of a comment ex made to me the final time he said he wanted to D & was moving a head with it.

I told him in the year of false recovery (didn't refer to it that way to him) he never opened his heart to me. I also said I didn't feel he really tried to save the marriage, simply coasted & expected love for me to jump back in his heart without work. He said "You have no idea what I've given up to stay here." Quote marks probably aren't fair since I've tried to put it all out of my mind.

What I think he was referring to was not seeing his gf (as much) or not being able to move forward with her. The A.H.things that WS let pop out of their mouths & the things they think (or don't) never cease to amaze me.

Pio,

So are we discussing relationships and marriage on this thread? Are you telling me I have just wasted a couple of days deciding what action-figure I wanted to be? Superman never cut the cake with me. I think it’s dorky to wear underwear outside your leotards. I was thinking Captain America but then I guess I like the French too much. Maybe the Hulk in lieu of my screen-name.

So you want a reason for her to bring up “the week”. I can give you a couple.

There is the obvious one. The one you seem latched onto. Gem wants her pool boy. That’s simple.

There are other ones that MIGHT sound strange until you consider that it would be very strange for her to ask permission to see lover boy. For example, you state you said it in irony. Irony and sarcasm do not translate well. Could there be a language issue here? Could she have taken your offer as a serious one and therefore (a) thought she had a “good to go” from you or (b) thought you really didn’t care for her?

Another theory: Sometimes when people argue or are in a state of confrontation for a long time the original infringement looses it’s “weight” as a motivator to remain in the state of confrontation. People get stuck in a behaviour pattern without the original cause for the pattern to really weight in. What this means is that you are “over” the pain of Gem’s affair but are not happy with her. Maybe because of her lack of commitment to recovery. Therefore you react disproportionally to certain triggers like the letters and like her comment. These events give you reason to remain in the confrontation pattern.

It’s not one sided. I am 100% certain Gem is doing the same. This is why I think that if you two want to survive this as a couple you need outside help. Someone to get you two out of the rut.

There is the very likely and possible result that you have totally fallen out of love and out of interest for Gem. That does happen often with infidelity. That’s what happened to me. You might feel pressure or an urgency to make things work and you can use all sort of justification for that but maybe D is your only viable solution. One very Dr. Phil-like solution is to “try out” a decision. Try or a week to THINK you have decided to divorce her (not whether you will d her). Push away all thoughts of when she comes back, plan like she was out of your life. See how you feel with that.

No matter what you do then don’t dwell on whether she is at Heathrow airport or whether pool-boy is cleaning her flies right now. You can’t influence that. Personally I think the A is over and PB has moved on to greener pastures.

Hi Todd,



...thanks for answering my very 'trivial' question.... Pio must have felt it applied to BS..... I am sure he'll 'weigh' in on this next time we hear from him....

BigK,


...I am with you on this one.....that's why I think that the M....given that it's probably flawed....as things are in the 'reality' world...does not have a chance compared to a R that is strictly seen at 'fantasyland' level.... to be fair.... it needs to be put through the 'reality' test....and that's where an A, based on lies, damaged relationships, destroyed families....often doesn't hold up!...then...depending on the WS, though, some will be prepared to admit it, others NOT....things like pride, shame, guilt and denial may get in the way...

Hi Pio,



....thanks for the info. I'll check it out to see if Todd and BigK had it right!



I wonder if G. wanted to see how you might react were she to be in contact with OM..... hoping to get some 'latitude' and 'corner you' to approve contact with OM ...and maybe YOU were expecting her to KNOW the obvious? ...sounds to me she is still a WS....if so, Pio, protect your heart....a WS's 'logic' can drive a BS crazy!

Todd,


....yes...I agree....and by extension, the two 'social classes' as well.... in case you don't remember...I was born and brought up in Italy......and compared to North America....the burden of the 'history' of the country can be felt at the turn of every corner! ....tourists would not pick this up .....and from what I know of the director....she was into 'social criticism'....and in Italy....there is a lot to criticize!



I would agree.......so then...I guess your WS may have gone for the 'opposite'....for a change! ... because in my case....I found WS at times was holding 'against' me everything that was the reason why he choose to be with me in the first place....this is where I find WS's play 'mind games' with the BS.... and I was just NOT into it!

....I feel with PLAN B, I broke away from the triangle... so now WS and OW will need to look at each other....and maybe find that sometimes they are not as pretty as their 'fantasyland' would have them believe they are!

Sorry Todd and BigK,


....on page one, and it was PEP who got it right (unless I got wrong!)

That comment about the OM in the context of what you were saying to her about what she needed to do to come back to the marriage, doesn't make sense.

I don't know how long ago you had said the comment 'she could visit PB'

I agree with the comments of Bigger about you two needing outside help or something that makes your discussions and your persperctives to move further. Some of the things you have describe her about your interactions with her, are just ways to get your justified anger out but don't help in the big squeme of things.
It really sucks that you were agraviated by the affair and then you have to play nice to keep the WW. If you see it day by day it's not fair, if you see it in the big picture of keeping your marriage and recover the love of your wife, it may worth the effort.

To me G doesn't appear as a money grabber WW or a mean person. She hasn't had all the independent behavior of many WW here.
I think she could have brought the topic of OM in a inmature way to leave you that image to make you jelous.

As we know OM is not the problem. I think she needs something that gives her sense of self and that helps her to recover her sense of identity in the context of her marriage and family. That's why I have been trying to tell you that some of your comments and actions, although justify, may not been helping you. You can say almost every thing you want but the 'how' you say it's very important for the XWW, because they are very needy vulnerable creatures. They know they have done wrong, but they can't take to much bashing, for too long.

The example of the leather clothes. Instead of answering the way you did, you could have tell her -I understand that you want to give your sister the dress cleaned and all but as these are our last days togehter, I ask you to solve the problem in Mx. The other option would have been to buy a can of cleaner.

The way you answered to her seemed, to me, as a remainder that it's you who make the money, like if she, even been your wife can't decide to pay for a dry cleaning. The other aspect that G could have gotten for your words is that you don't care about other people outside your own family. I think your position is the healthy and wise one but G is a caring person and a woman whose way to show her value is to doing nice things for others. Karina is her only sister and on top of that her twin.

What do you think?

How did the fishing go?