I was just going to say "to keep open".

Ok since we're all being serious here I think as a FWW I can give my opinion.

I don't hate the OM but I don't love him either. I am indifferent to him. 2long summed it up perfectly. When it comes to A's the MO is "I'm in love with you but I don't love you." Love is what I have with my H. I'm certainly not going to pine for the OM for the rest of my life. I am going to enjoy my final years with the man I love and the man who loves me (even if he did wear faded red shorts).

Pio, if she did go to be with pool boy, can you imagine what it would be like. I don't think she has ANY idea what his life is really like. I could see it the minute I saw the photos of him. I've seen that type of young Englishman before and I'm sure you have too. I know you've said you wouldn't have her back if she goes to him but don't you think that the cold reality of his real life (if he can even remember her) might just fix the wire in her head.

Yes I remember. You now live in Quebec and are a French sympathizer like bigger. And, oh yeah, like ahuman. At least she has an excuse.

When the new power couple returned to the mainland and the woman abandoned her new beau for her rich husband, the point of the movie hit me like a sandstorm. A misdirection of sorts. Billiantly done.

Todd,

When would the meeting with your WW take place?


The point of the movie is...?

Hi larousse,

I am not certain that a meeting will take place. I really don't have anything to say to her. Still in deciding mode however.

Bigger!

Okay you crossed a line. I don't mind you defending or even liking the French, but putting Superman down? Unforgiveable.

Hi Pio,



I agree with Kiwi.....but, unless OM has moved on, I don't think a WEEK would be enough for 'reality' to hit them... but I also saw the pictures of OM, Pio....I might be stereotyping.... but I don't think he's holding his 'breath' for G.... in my youth.....I came across a few of his 'type'.....it always amazed me how quickly they moved from one girl to another!

Todd,

well maybe not quite...I think the French in Quebec feel a lot of 'hurt' from past events...history shows that they WERE 'exploited'..... they lost 'trust' in the heads of state to 'take care of them'.... but like everything..... you can't change the past....but rather you need to come to terms with it.... which is why I am not sure the 'independence' issue will do the trick.....

at some level....just like a D does not 'fix' everything...does it?

...but maybe Quebec will have to be given a chance to have what it wants...independence....to realize that it won't do the trick...to be able to 'move on'.... at the very least it might feel less 'threatened' on the North American continent..feel more in control of its destiny....it's politics.....and that's never black and white....

For me....once you have been 'uprooted'....the roots don't take as well on new land...and it's never quite the same....hard for me to identify with the 'passionate' claim of the nationalists (sp?) here....and don't feel that it's the root of the problem (geesh...anyone want a ROOTbeer?)

.....I think that everybody has their 'empty hole' that can never be filled.... I am not complaining....what I consider to be some of main qualities come from being 'uprooted' at a very young age....the other side of the coin...is that nowhere do I feel that I 'belong'...but then again what I consider to be my 'global' perspective comes from the same place....so I never try to fill my 'empty hole'.....because I know it's an 'unfillable' hole..... so, I manage it.....and at times it is a great source of strength for me..... but I am getting off topic here...sorry!



...things are never what they appear to be! ...take Clark Kent!

Todd,



...does this mean Superman wears two underwears? There also must have been extra large phone booths in his time, too, for Clark to change into his superhero costume.... in our 'cellular' world....he may have to 'move on' to elevators...but then....many have cameras....what's a superhero to do....any suggestions, Todd, for your favourite hero?

Let it be known that Superman can change clothes so quickly that a visual recording of his doing so would be a mass blur. His identity would remain safe.

Does he wear two underwears? I will ask him next time I see him. Or, I could ask Lois Lane I suppose.

There is a belief here at MB that if a WS spends enough time with the OP, especially in the face of exposure, that the two will begin to see each other in a realistic light and thus begins the dissolution of their relationship.

Yes, this can happen but I wonder what the statistics are? Between this site and SI.com, there are countless couples comprised of WS/OP combinations who have been together, married in fact, for years.

Having said that, one advantage that Pio had was the capability to have OM sent packing back to the UK. One disadvantage in Pio's sitch is that he sent OM back to the UK. It would have been preferable to allow the sophmoric romance to die a natural death. Assuming it would have.

Nonetheless, that is spilled milk (scene from "I Was a Teenage Werewolf"} and Pio is left with a WW who saved the love cards and wonders if it is okay for her to spend time with OM. In my best opinion that I can conjure, WW is not over OM and apparently has no interest in being over OM. She is the classic cakewoman, not wanting to leave her DD's, but also wanting the OM. Where does Pio fit in? He doesn't feel WW's love. His decision to send WW to Mexico and take care of his DD's is the correct one. I hope the plan works out for the best. If not, it sounds as if Pio is prepared to move on with his life.

Sorry Pio, but it's the way I see it.

When was the last time you saw your WW face to face ?

What did you write about to her on your las mail exchange?

I'm noosy or what ?

...that's my point, too, Todd, this process may actually take years....and often may never see the 'light'.... so...for G. one week with OM is just a drop in the ocean...


It may not be what you want to hear, Pio, but I think Todd is right on this point....and I don't even think it actually has anything to do with OP, really....sometimes it's the need to believe that a 'fantasyland' love exists somewhere, even if it does not turn out to be the current OP..... just like the one we imagined in our adolescent years.....unfortunately, by wanting to hold on to these 'youthful' ideals of the past....is what 'blinds' WS's to see all that they are giving up for it in the 'present'.....


...this course of action will allow both Pio and G. to 'live out' the consequences of a separation...before considering the big D....allowing both of them to see if that is the direction they want to take.....imagining how a 'separation' would be like and actually 'living it' is not the same.....I don't know about G.....but I think it will be helpful to you, Pio....

When I say a week would do it, in this case I mean it.

I don't think the OM lives in a gorgeous country house or even in the glorious Yorkshire Dales. My bet is the OM lives in a two up two down terraced house in a pretty grim part of Yorkshire.

No gold or lots of lovely shoes, no golf at the country club and probably a brassy blonde mum who thinks a pint at the pub is the ultimate in a good night out.

I don't think Americans have ANY idea what it's like. It's not all royalty and posh accents. Pio knows, he's lived there.

Doesn't TKO mean Knockout...as in Boxing?

Whatever....

The day I moved out which I think was in March. Memory is the second thing to go.

"What did you write about to her on your las mail exchange?"

Well, the email exchanges started on coordination of financial matters. I asked her now that she had a few months to reflect on things, how does she feel about her affair, OM and the reason she gave me for having her affair.

Her unfortunate response was that she didn't have an affair, that she told me that because it was what I wanted to hear. I know where this new "deny everything" policy came from. Before I moved out, I overheard a telephone conversation that WW had with her Best Friend, enabler number one. In that conversation, she said that OM was livid with her for admitting the affair and that he would "deny it from now on" and that she had better deny it also.

What the all-knowing OM did not know was that the wheels of exposure were already in motion. I exposed to OMXW who told me she was going to expose to their only son. Son called OM who, as he promised, denied everything. Son called mom back who decided that if OM was going to continue to lie about his escapades, she was going to fill DS in on the truth spanning 34 years. Son called OM back and was livid. DS is possibly the only person in the world that OM truly loves. Hence his new policy: deny everything.

Then our emails went downhill from there. WW assured me she wanted a D because I had shown her what kind of man I was when I moved out. I left her to fend for herself alone, to endure a tornado alone and to sell "her" house alone. Now that she knew the truth about what kind of man I was, she had no interest in staying married to me.

When presented with a challenge, I don't shirk from responding. My philosophy is if someone lobs a hand grendade into your camp, you open the silos in North Dakota and let loose of half a dozen ICBM's.

Thus, I told WW that she had shown me what kind of woman she was. I called her la puta a number of times and assured her that my manhood is alive and well and suggested to her that she is no longer a "lady" if she, in fact, ever was one. I also mentioned some plans I have for OM which was unfortunate.

A Cold War ensued with no communication. Finally, she wrote back that she had questions about our "assets" and that she wanted to keep paying my life insurance policies instead of me. See where this was headed? What she didn't know is that assets have been moved/retitled and life policies beneficiaries changed to my three sons as well as fundamental changes in my will and estate plan.


No I take it as interest, not nosiness.

Thank you... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I'm afraid I have some more questions:

Did you answer the mail about the assets already?

Some time ago you mention your WW was involved with someone else in the same street or something like that. Is she still seen this person as far as you know?

Would you say she always wanted to remain married but she wanted to have some 'pasion' on the side?

Do you want her back if she repents?

I answered only in the sense of assuring her I would continue to pay for my own life insurance premiums. I was silent on the assets retitling, will, estate plan and beneficiary.


She was involved with a neighbor in a four + year affair as far as I can conclude. She also had a "fling" of whatever duration with a second neighbor.

I have no idea if she is still seeing either OM. My youngest son and I went to dinner a couple of nights ago and he told me WW is not seeing OM any longer. I asked him how he knew and he said trust me I know. My guess is that he visited OM1 and confronted him and advised him not to see his mom anymore. Both youngest and oldest sons vowed to confront OM. I am not concerned about oldest son doing so for his emotions, if not anger, will be in check and physically, he could mercifully punish OM. I was a little concerned about youngest son, not from a physical standpoint but with the province of youth, he sometimes lets anger become his master, instead of his servant.


I honestly don't know. She had always been flirtatious and stared at men in public. Now bear in mind, if I had stared at women in public (I didn't because I had too much consideration and respect for her, even if she didn't for me), I would have caught the third degree.

My belief is that there was first an attraction to OM, then affection followed by love followed by the affair. Just a guess on my part.


No.

The deny factor. ex was Special Forces & he once told me they were told to deny, deny, deny in the face of things they didn't want known. H lived by this long after he was no longer S.F. Still does in fact. So, when I asked if he was having an affair & he said no I didn't believe him. I never expected a truthfull answer from him. I wanted one & would have work through the affair had he admited it but as Todd said..."spilled milk".

I described OM as a serial predator. Psychologists use the term philanderers. My favorite author of infidelity books is Dr. Frank Pittman. I have pasted below an article he wrote for PsychologyToday.com.

Pittman's description fits OM perfectly. It is uncanny how well he describes OM. Philanderers are obviously very sick individuals.

Philandering

Philandering is a predominantly male activity. Philanderers take up infidelity as a hobby. Philanderers are likely to have a rigid and concrete concept of gender; they worship masculinity, and while they may be greatly attracted to women, they are mostly interested in having the woman affirm their masculinity. They don't really like women, and they certainly don't want an equal, intimate relationship with a member of the gender they insist is inferior, but far too powerful. They see women as dangerous, since women have the ability to assess a man's worth, to measure him and find him wanting, to determine whether he is man enough.

These men may or may not like sex, but they use it compulsively to affirm their masculinity and overcome both their homophobia and their fear of women. They can be cruel, abusive, and even violent to women who try to get control of them and stop the philandering they consider crucial to their masculinity. Their life is centered around displays of masculinity, however they define it, trying to impress women with their physical strength, competitive victories, seductive skills, mastery of all situations, power, wealth, and, if necessary, violence. Some of them are quite charming and have no trouble finding women eager to be abused by them.

Philanderers may be the sons of philanderers, or they may have learned their ideas about marriage and gender from their ethnic group or inadvertently from their religion. Somewhere they have gotten the idea that their masculinity is their most valuable attribute and it requires them to protect themselves from coming under female control. These guys may consider themselves quite principled and honorable, and they may follow the rules to the letter in their dealings with other men. But in their world women have no rights.

To men they may seem normal, but women experience them as narcissistic or even sociopathic. They think they are normal, that they are doing what every other real man would do if he weren't such a wimp. The notions of marital fidelity, of gender equality, of honesty and intimacy between husbands and wives seem quite foreign from what they learned growing up. The gender equality of monogamy may not feel compatible to men steeped in patriarchal beliefs in men being gods and women being ribs. Monogamous sexuality is difficult for men who worship Madonnas for their sexlessness and berate Eves for their seductiveness.

Philanderers' sexuality is fueled by anger and fear, and while they may be considered "sex addicts" they are really "gender compulsives" desperately doing whatever they think will make them look and feel most masculine. They put notches on their belts in hopes it will make their penises grow bigger. If they can get a woman to die for them, like opera composer Giacomo Puccini did in real life and in most of his operas, they feel like a real man.

tear,

No. You misunderstood.

Pablo Neruda, in honor of our Spanish speaking friends.

Puedo Escribir


Puedo escribir los versos más tristes esta noche.

Escribir, por ejemplo: 'La noche está estrellada,
y tiritan, azules, los astros, a lo lejos.'

El viento de la noche gira en el cielo y canta.

Puedo escribir los versos más tristes esta noche.
Yo la quise, y a veces ella también me quiso.

En las noches como ésta la tuve entre mis brazos.
La besé tantas veces bajo el cielo infinito.

Ella me quiso, a veces yo también la quería.
Cómo no haber amado sus grandes ojos fijos.

Puedo escribir los versos más tristes esta noche.
Pensar que no la tengo. Sentir que la he perdido.

Oir la noche inmensa, más inmnesa sin ella.
Y el verso cae al alma como al pasto el rocío.

Qué importa que mi amor no pudiera guadarla.
La noche está estrellada y ella no está conmigo.

Eso es todo. A lo lejos alguien canta. A lo lejos.
Mi alma no se contenta con haberla perdido.

Como para acercarla mi mirada la busca.
Mi corazón la busca, y ella no está conmigo.

La misma noche que hace blanquear los mismos árboles.
Nosotros, los de entonces, ya no somos los mismos.

Ya no la quiero, es cierto, pero cuánto la quise.
Mi voz buscaba el viento para tocar su oído.

De otro. Será de otro. Como antes de mis besos.
Su voz, su cuerpo claro. Sus ojos infinitos.

Ya no la quiero, es cierto, pero tal vez la quiero.
Es tan corto el amor, y es tan largo el olvido.

Porque en noches como ésta la tuve entre mis brazos,
mi alma no se contenta con haberla perdido.

Aunque éste sea el último dolor que ella me causa,
y éstos sean los últimos versos que yo le escribo.

Pablo Neruda