It seems there are some similitudes between yours, Todd and Pio's stories. Both WW's affairs were born under some stressful times on their lifes. It looks like they were looking some kind of outside reafirmation more than running away from conflicts in their marriages.

The reason why I think there is redemption for them is because up until the affair they were good mothers and wives, to a point I guess. Also it seems that althought the 'wild' life is tempting they seem to go back to the stability of the marriage.

Todd I don't see why you have to forgive her and give her an opportunity to regain a place in your heart and your life. You have been badly wronged. At the same time I feel you have so much love for her, for the past her. She can't face what she has done and she may think that admiting all and facing all will only make you to reject her completely.

She has no idea of your capacity for love, she sees herself as defective and as unlovable, she's trying to mantain a facade. If she could only imagine that you know her better than she thinks, that along the years you have loved her weakness and her rough sides.

It's so subjective what a man or woman can or can't forgive, from the outside somethings look too much or not so much. Only you know what you have endured and what you can forgive. All rationalization aside of what is best for the marriage and the family and what you want from her as your life partner, all valide and necesary questions, I think there is this place called Grace, where we all defective human beings get the opportunity to redime ourselves from past mistakes.

You have gained points enought to post at least four lyrics tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like she is really trying to reach...I think it is a major step for her to even admit 1/2 fault at this point...she will not go from zero to 180 in that short of time...she is inching there. Seems like she is bobbing and spending a little more time above water each time but still gravitating back down...if you have any desire to salvage the M give her some positive reinforcement for the admissions and sharing...you won't get total and complete honesty all at once although that is what we all want and need...unfortunately I think it comes in small pieces and snowballs until you get the bulk...sometimes you don't even get the entire story even when you recover.

I have friends who grazed plan D and were the WS and they provided "enough to satisfy the BS" but held back "unnecessary details"...do I agree with this...no but I guess each recovery is different.

I'm sorry if you are frustrated but after 6 months it seems something has spurred this change and opportunity is knocking. Just keep being you and be the best ToddAC...don't let her push your buttons but throw her a life preserver when the time comes if you want the M.

My H asked me tonight "so what is going to happen to us?" I told him it was up to him, I want a husband and family but it seems like he wants to be a batchelor without any responsibilities...

he told me he has no problem being responsible for the kids he just doesn't know if he wants to be a husband...I told him the ball is in his court, he needs to decide what he wants...I want a husband and family and if he doesn't want to be a husband he needs to let me know...

he says he doesn't know what he wants and he doesn't know how to get from where he is back to being a husband...I reminded him what the MC said and what all the books say that we need to spend 15 hours of alone time a week for us not talking about M but just trying to have fun...he says he doesn't know if that is what he wants...

I asked him what he wants from me...he says nothing, that I look incredible but he just can't stand spending time with me...it gives him chest pain...I told him he needs to think about what he wants and if it is the M he needs to start doing things to improve it b/c I am not taking the lead here, if he wants it he has to work for it. He left as he does every night b/c he "needs to escape" from me...

I agree <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Todd, you'll have to post I'm a Rock again because I missed that installment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Pio, how come men have not discovered the advantages of laser depilation? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Okay larusse you asked for it.

This song reminds me of a portion of a Gibran poem on love:

All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.

But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,

Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,

Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.

ToddAC makes a declarative statement: tonight has deteriorated further. My youngest son has become involved because of the stupidity of my WW. He is distraught worrying about his mom killing herself. I hate this ****. Self edited.

I want to live in a seasonless world. Put me in coach; I am ready.



I Am a Rock


A winters day
In a deep and dark december;
I am alone,
Gazing from my window to the streets below
On a freshly fallen silent shroud of snow.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I've built walls,
A fortress deep and mighty,
That none may penetrate.
I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain.
It's laughter and its loving I disdain.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

Dont talk of love,
But I've heard the words before;
It's sleeping in my memory.
I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that have died.
If I never loved I never would have cried.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

I have my books
And my poetry to protect me;
I am shielded in my armor,
Hiding in my room, safe within my womb.
I touch no one and no one touches me.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.

Whew! Sure took a long time to catch up.

Todd,

Call the police or the hotline for suicide. It's the fastest way to sobber up someone making suicide threats.
It's hard to do it but for what I have seen here in MB, very effective.

Well I just got the DDs to their first day of school. We met their teachers and found their classes and they learned where they have to line up in the mornings. DD1 will help DD2 learn where to go. The only complication is that, for lunch, DD2 gets out at 10:30 while DD1 gets out at 11:15. I talked to the teacher and she will walk DD2 to the front gate where that housemaid will be waiting for her. So far so good. We are only about 700 feet from the school gate so they will usually be walking to and from school. WW always drove DD1 but I always thought that was over the top - especially in the nice weather. A lot of kids walk who live three or four times as far away as we do. They are still a bit jet-lagged but they did manage to get about 4 hours sleep last night.

BTW believer, you are the one who pushed me to separate from gemela. I am glad you did but I am interested in your comments if you have any.

I don't know why some WW's can't deal with guilt in a healthy way, is that an oximoron? It's a sick dynamic, they can't come completeley clean and at the same time they punish themselves or take destructive choises unable to face the pain they caused and their own pain.

Maybe it's of little consolation but there are some examples of suicide threats or attempts in the forum.
It comes with the territory, maybe as an intent to take the presure from their shoulders getting the pity of the BS. Dunno.

WOW Todd - She's trying to drive you insane by gaslighting you.

2Much? 2Words - Plan B

Don't take that crap from him. Sheesh.

Pio,

congrats on your first days of single parenthood, phew.

How exciting for DD2 to go to school for the first time.

I have accomplished my lifelong dream: I am Superman! Given what I have been through the last five hours and that my heart is still beating and my brain is still working, I am indestructable. I am truly Superman.

Problem is, WW hoards a piece of Kryptonite.

Tonight, for the first time, WW genuinely expressed regret and apologies for her affair. She even takes responsibility for the effect on the kids. Here's what shook her loose. She told DS3 again tonight she was going to kill herself. DS3 got drunk and very despondent. I talked to him for thirty minutes. After typing that, I just got off the phone again. I must share with you: the hurt and pain of my WW's affair and deception pales in comparison to the effect on my sons. My youngest son, in his drunken state, keeps repeating how we were the perfect family. What happened Dad?

In that instant, I decided I was going to R. I will R for the wrong reasons but I will do it. I cannot stand to see my sons in that much pain. Plus, WW showed some remorse tonight.

Don't misunderstand me. I love my WW in the sense of sentimentality and our family. But, I will never be in love with her again. She crossed too many lines and burned too many bridges. But for the sake of my family, I will live in that seasonless world.

And, please, I don't say this out of self-pity but the incredible love I have for my sons.

And take it from me sports fans: infidelity is way overrated.

Busy day SpMn ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I think you don't have to supress your deep needs of a meaningful marriage. Stick to counceling as one condition and NC of course. NC letter is very important too, practic and symbolic.

What is your plan for R Todd? If you are going to do this, do it for real and properly. You might be surprised.

Plan? I ain't got no stinking plan.

That's what I was afraid of

I know Big K. Seriously, my plan is to end the pain and suffering of my sons.

But, I know you are well schooled in MB methodology. Please enlighten me.

I honestly don't know if you are playing with me here Todd. But, assuming you are serious, You should start with a NC letter from your wife to OM approved by you of course and the EN questionaires filled out by both of you.