Where did you get that crackpot idea?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, he started the whole t/j thing.

Pio, so poor little helpless gemela is still being bailed out by you again. No consequences to her selfishness, yet again. Unfortunately, any consequences would have been suffered by you in having to deal with a distraught DD1.

Tell her to organise the calling properly. I mean that, tell her, don't ask her, tell her.

Hahahahaha

Were your ears burning Jen? LOL

Well I am cutting and pasting the email I sent her this AM

----------------------------------------------
gemela,

I hope you can find a way to talk to the girls either on MSN or SKYPE. I was not happy last night that I had to sit there and type for DD1 and read to her. You know she doesn't read Spanish. She did okay when you wrote in English. If this is the only way you can communicate, I will just let DD1 sit at the keyboard from now on and she can type. I told you when you left that I do not want to have any communication with you. I know you were only communicating with DD1 but putting me in the middle of it pretty much ruined my night.

I want you to communicate with the girls whenever you want but I don't want to see or hear one word from you. Please try and respect that.

thanks

Good for you Pio. Clear, concise and to the point....

I am here Jimmy Olson. Monopoles, eh? There is so much in physics that people become convinced exists when the very existence was proposed only as a possible theory based on someone's research. Black holes are the leading example of this. Guess that is what makes it so fascinating. I doubt that monopoles exist. Everywhere one looks, including subatomic structures, one finds not just magnets with both poles, but electromagnets. Electromagnetism is the key to the universe I believe. It is too prevalent not to be.

Besides, I used my x-ray vision in conjunction with my microscopic vision and could find no monos.

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.

larusse, IOW, you are the walrus.

Hey larousse, what does larousse mean? I assume it is French? Do you speak French? I am sure it is not Spanish because of the double consonants.

Black holes do exist and can be seen with the naked eye. Look up at the sky at night. Most of it is black. In fact there are more black holes than there are stars which proves that the universe is far older than previously thought.

I remember a research paper presented once where the scientists had found a perfect correlation for their research. They had used a 19th order polynominal fit for their 20 data points. That cracks me up. I bet you are rolling on the floor too. The results were so startling that they went immediately to print.

Just for completeness, these are the other two emails I have sent to WW since I got back.

#1 (To SIL's OM)
Please tell gemela that we are back in the house in Saudi and we are all tired but okay.

I also wanted to mention to you that I did tell gemela before she left that I would cover her expenses but I will not pay for her to go shopping in Mexico. If she decides she wants to go shopping, she should get a job and make money to pay for them. Do not let her go out and spend a lot of money and expect me to just write a check.


#2
British Airways has a new and very stricy handbaggage policy in London. Neither one of your pink bags will be allowed as carry-on between London and Bahrain. BA might let you travel to London with them but they will not let you leave London with them. I know this for a fact because I was just there. They have a very strict size limit and they force you to prove that your bags will fit in their measuring cage. If they don't fit, you can't take them as carry-on.

In that case, you are forced to go through immigration and go to the ticketing check-in and check your bags or else simply throw your bags in the garbage bin right there at security. They have zero tolerance. I know how you are and how you think you can always bend the rules.

Your options are:

1) leave those bags in Mexico.
2) empty the bags and mail them back to the house here
3) wrap them up in something to protect them and check them in Mexico

If you try to hand carry them and you are forced to go through immigration in London and check them, I can promise you that there is not enough time to make your flight. You will be forced to stay in London a day or more until you can get another flight. Now, I will repeat this - if you spend so much as one night in London, that is an automatic divorce. So you need to ask yourself the question how much those pink bags mean to you. Are they worth your marriage?

As an example, I had DD1's mochila almost empty and it failed the handbag test because of the wheels. They made the bag 2 cm too deep. The maximum depth of the bag can be no more than 14 cm. You can check the BA website for all the dimensions but take my word that your bags will not pass. BA has staff doing nothing more than checking the size of the bag. There is no way to avoid them. You also will only be allowed one carryon bag from London to Bahrain. Two bags are no longer allowed in London.

I don't know if you are planning to come back here or not but if you do, do NOT carry those bags.

Okay Pio,

What was your goal in sending email #2?

You are talking about procedures for WW to follow when she flies back to SA. Shouldn't you just let the eventuality of WW coming back to SA be an unknown? Also, the tone of the email is unnecessarily dictatorial. What was your goal?

I think WW will come back to SA even if it is just to POJA a divorce. I don't think she will just call up one day and say we'll never see her again. Our agreement is that she come back to SA so that we can decide what we want to do. Coming back to SA does not imply she is returning to the M.

I know WW very well. She has a large carry-on, a cosmetic bag and a large purse. I know that she will think that all she has to do is bat her eyelashes and BA will waive their guidelines for her. They won't. WW won't believe that.

The BA policy is insane and their implementation is unworkable. People are faced with the choice of losing their bags or missing their plane. WW would never part with anything so would choose to miss the plane. That leaves her unaccounted for in the UK. Who would she call? Let me guess.

I agree the tone is harsh which is why I wanted to be honest and post it. I agree that these emails and communications could influence her decision to return to the M. I don't care. I don't really think I want her back. Maybe that is why the tone is so harsh. I don't know. She did email back and asked me to confirm "you mean neither one of my bags can go?". I replied that was correct.

I do think I am being consistent. At no time am I leading her to believe she is going to find yellow ribbons on the tree out front. I have just been asking myself the question if I am happier with her our without her. These last few days back home without her have been much better than what I had before we left for vacation. I was miserable before. Now I am lonely but the pain is gone. I also think I would still be lonely if WW were here. Maybe I am moving on?

Reread your last post. Do you see contradictions? If not, read it again. You go to great lengths to say you don't care and you may be better off without her, then you said she would try to get her bags through and it would lead to WW calling OM? So? Either you care or you don't. Decide which it is.


"I don't care."

"I don't really think I want her back."

"I don't know."

These three sentences really stood out to me. And look, it is okay to be confused. You've been separated how many days? Four? Five? Just don't fool yourself about what you want, or don't want. Strive for consistency regardless of your answer. And don't answer the question until your emotions have caught up with your logic.


Maybe you are circling the landing field but it is too soon to conclude that you are moving on. My friend, don't confuse intellect with emotional intelligence. You cannot think your way through and out of this. You must get in touch with your emotions. Again, it is unrealistic to expect that you would have figured things out already. Stuff your ego about when WW is coming back or how long she can hold out without you and live through this mess. Give it time.

I agree. I don't know. I know I am very angry right now about it all. Because Heizenberg is so clearly wielding his infuence here, I don't want to end up divorced on a technicality. I want to wait until WW return to SA and we sit down and talk to make that decision. Unfortunately her having a sleepover in the UK would make the issue moot. If she does stop in the UK, divorce is absolute. Knowing WW as I know her, if she were faced with the decision to lose her cosmetics bag, she would choose the bag.

I think what someone said earlier about PTSD is very likely. That is why I want this time. I want to limit communication with WW. Today I promised DD1 that she could call WW. This evening I dialed the phone and handed it to DD1 and went upstairs. It was great. I felt nothing. That is what I want. I don't know what happened but DD1 hung up the phone at some point and came upstairs. I asked her why the call was so short. She said she didn't want to talk to mommy any more. WW called back and I told DD1 to answer. I didn't ask what was said but I asked if everything was okay. DD1 said mommy just wanted to say goodbye. I left it at that. On the first call I am guessing that DD1 hung up before WW had the chance to say goodbye.

Can you imagine what it must have been like to be Heisenberg's mother?

"Hey Werner, what do you want for dinner?"

Man I bet that was frustrating.

Pio,

Okay, now I'll say I don't know. Given that DD1 is emotional and her reaction in Miami to WW going to Mexico, and such a short conversation, what is going on? Does DD1 feel animosity towards WW for not being home? Here's a potential problem you face. WW could feel that she is losing the love of DD's and want to hurry back home to her family. Well, you are part of the family and although you won't be able to ascertain why she comes back, wouldn't you rather she come back to the marriage which implies the family? Don't you want her to want and love you again?

I am not suggesting that I have a solution set for you. Perhaps encourage DD1 to engage in conversation more with WW. Also, put DD2 on the phone. Allow WW to at least be secure that DD's still love her.

I am encouraging them to talk. I dialed the phone remember? And I do push DD2 to talk but she has always been "hi/bye".

Hey, different subject. DD1 just got up and said she was hungry. I told her she would have breakfast in another 8 hours but she just won't listen. So now I have to give her a snack. My question is how long should I put the banana and cheese sandwich in the microwave to soften the cheese enough so that the raisinettes and M&M's won't fall out? I'm kind of in a hurry on this one.

Assuming your wattage is around 1Kw, 43 seconds should do it. Unless M&M's have been kept in the freezer, as they should.

And yes, I remember that you dialed the number. But, you know full well that your body language and reactions suggest a lot to DD's. Encourage them to talk to Mommy; that's all I am saying.

Pio,

I hope you can decide what you want before she comes home. If you decide to try to work on the marriage, you have to give her something to want to come back to. I can understand your anger and your disgust. But, I can't imagine being in her place and trying to reconcile. I can't.

I'm not a religious follower of the Harleys, though I think that some of their principals saved my marriage. I felt that our problems were more my H's fault than mine. I was angry and resentful and as long as I stayed in that state, we were going nowhere. I finally sucked it up and decided that I would swallow my pride and my anger and refuse to engage in our nasty interactions with each other. And I don't even think he noticed what was happening, but gradually, he started changing in how he dealt with me and how he treated me. We've had some backslides -- some big ones. But, I finally reached a point after a big relapse, where I decided that I would love him completely and without reservation, whether it was returned or not. And we turned a corner. And I was finally able to see clearly what I'd done in the past to contribute to the breakdown of our relationship.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that because Gemela doesn't seem to have the insight to know how to approach this or fix this and may also have too much pride or a big fear of rejection and of being chastised, that you may have to be the one to show her the way and give her an opening. Based on what you've said here and the bit I've read of her posts, I do think there's some hope for you two. But, I think you're starting nearly from scratch and you have an entire relationship to build from nothing -- maybe even a deficit. She's probably completely broken, like a recruit at bootcamp. She's about to lose everything, including her kids. She sounds really stubborn and so are you. I don't know if she loves you at all. If she doesn't, she might be able to fall in love with you. But, not like this.

I think you need this time apart to reevaluate and try to decide if it's worth the huge effort to continue this marriage. Try to be objective about Gemela. If you were single and met her again, could you fall in love with her? Can you help her to get past her insecurities and find some contentment? She must've been unhappy to get involved with poolboy. Why was she so unhappy? Has she ever been happy? Can you help her to deal with her issues and find some contentment in life and some happiness with you?

And what's best for your girls? I'm not saying you should stay married for them alone. But, they are a big factor. And if you do stay married, you two owe it to them and yourselves to try to have a decent relationship. You're an analytical guy. Try to step back from the emotion and see things more realistically. Gemela is a person who needs help. She's can't figure this out on her own. And IMO, the way you're treating her is just making her feel worse. Do you really want her to come home defeated with her tail between her legs or do you want her to come home to try to find a way to love you and want to be with you?

You've already said that she's a child in many ways. It seems like she could grow up if she's not shamed into being more of a child than she already is. Maybe her affair was a bit of a rebellion against you and trying to feel like a grownup woman who was more mature than he was. Try to figure out why she did it and what was lacking. And see if you have it in your heart to help her, because it sure sounds like she needs it.

The bags: I'd be much shorter & be clear the consequences are hers to deal with.

Perhaps this: Your bags are too big & will not get through baggage check. There is no getting around this. You'll have to dump your bags to get on the plane.

No more than that. What she chooses to do will be hers to live with. You make your decisions based on her behavior.

In reading here I think the one thing I discovered about my not confirming then exposing ex's affair is that I wanted him to want me enough to come back. He didn't. Would it have been different had I confirmed & exposed? Who knows. What I knew & clearly felt was he didn't love me enough to let go the lure of a new life with a new woman & wanted out.

We talked about there being another person in his life. Denied. I told him the reasons he'd need to give her up if there was to be hope for our marriage. The decision was his to make.

Pio, if you really want no contact...make it so. It seems like you're waffling, trying to get her to see what she's done, it's effects & to let reason guide her. We all know there's no reason involved with WS. They are selfish to the core & what they want guides them.

If you want her to want you I hope she does. If you want to D I hope that goes smoothly for you. Time & patience with yourself. It takes time to sort through the mess the WS has created & know what's best for you.

Ah yes. Every BS's dream rarely grounded in reality. Get em back any way you can and then at least you have something to work with. Sad but true. Worked for me.

Oh, I got him back for more than a year bigkahuna. I'm not really sure why he did stay because he was unwilling to work at MC, unwilling to go to IC, didn't want to participate with the MB materials or any others I suggested. I truly believe he expected love for me to jump back into his heart. He doesn't believe love is a verb. He's more in the "love is a feeling" group.

In an aniversary card he gave me during our year of recovery he said he appreciated all the effort I made to make things comfortable for him. Made me cry for a variety of reasons.

He really did have one foot out the door & his head & heart were there too.

I am glad for you though.