Pio - I can relate to this. One of my twins is a nightmare in the morning. Would your daughter respond to an 'award system'? Stickers for getting up on time, getting dressed without fuss, eating breakfast etc etc. So many stickers = a reward. This is such a tricky situation for your maid as well. It is very difficult for these ladies to earn respect from children. They are not quite sure of their boundaries in terms of discipline. That's something you really need to discuss with her. Too soft and the kids stamp all over them, too hard and the kids resent them.

Can I suggest that your girls have their clothes laid out the night before. Perhaps a weekly planner in their bedrooms would help them to better organise themselves. I know they are only little and will have tantrums regardless, but anything that helps day to day life run a little more smoothly will be a blessing. Take care, TT

The award system is a brilliant idea. Thanks. I'll start immediately. I have seen this before but never used it. My daughters are just not "morning people".

Maid situation is much harder. I am not sure what is real. I am not there to observe and I wish I could be. I have thought of a nannycam for a brief period so I can better understand the dynamics. I don't believe the mais is overstepping her bounds and I think she means well. We have minor communications issues. I could not do this without her so I can't push her too hard either. We all need to work through this transition and we will get there.

We are now laying out the clothes the night before. I had meant to do that but everything just gets chaotic at night sometimes. My evenings never go how I think they will.

Pio, I love the green fertilizer idea! That one is right up my alley.

You keep referring to your "mess ups". Frankly I don't see these little snafus as mess ups. Kid problems are so different that adult & work problems. They are twisty & turny & complicated by so many factors. One being communicating on a level kids can understand. You're human, unlike our resident superman Todd, & life just don't work like a well oiled machine much of the time.

It sounds like you are doing a wonderful job with your girls. You love them, spend time with them, help them. That's the important stuff. Blue, green shirt, won't matter for long. Besides it sounds like you're getting this color thing right 99.897% of the time & that's pretty good.

By nature I am an unorganized person & keeping my boys on track in terms of what's due when & who needs what today is enourmously difficult for me. I often don't get things quite right. I beat myself up for that for a while but that didn't help me do a better job.

People give me tips & some are helpful but it's still a struggle. Unfortuately my boys are unorganized like me so we are often struggling together.

Oh, I forgot to comment on something else you said.

"As each day goes by, I think more & more I don't want her back. Of course, this is hugely unfair to DDs."

What's unfair? That you don't want your WW back? Or are you taking the responsibility for breaking up the family?

luna, you asked about school. Would it be full time? Yes, in as much as master programs are. By that I mean they are typically at night three, maybe four nights a week. It seems they try to taylor schedules to working people. Some courses will recommend you go to school only, depends on the concentration. This, no.

You made an interesting point about giving myself more time to make my choices so as not to be goverened by practicality alone. It's one I've been trying to consider more in my decision making process. I admit to feeling pressure to make a choice, mosty self induced. After all, the D did not seek up on me. I'd taken the classes necessary to finish my bachelor's from the time ex said he wanted to D the first time. I feel like I've had time but the decision doesn't seem to be forthcoming.

About the marriage stuff: In my concise post about my D I didn't give many details about the whats & whys of it all. Let me see if I can explain a bit about why I'm looking at the infidelity after the fact.

Infidelity did not plan a leading role in our D. By that I mean it was not a focus or the stated reason for out D. ex said he wanted to D. I went into a tailspin, focused on plan A, took what I could get from ex to work on marriage. He denied involvement with anyone & I was unable to find definitive proof. From the moment ex agreed to "give it a year" he was three quarters out the door in his head & in his heart.

I talked about infidelity, how we could get past it, how he must have NC, we must build us, but it was all greeted with a blank look of what does this have to do with me, I'm not involved with anyone. Denial coupled with no proof left me on pretty slippery ground.

Just now that things are settling in & my life & that of my boys is calming I'm taking a better look at the inner workings of the fake reconciliation & the path to D.

None of this talks about the roles both of us played in the weakening of our marriage & how it lead to D but that's a whole 'nother can of worms. If you're interested ask what ever you'd like.

Yes. Me making the unilateral decision to break up the family. I am still stuck between thinking what is best for them is a healthy divorce or a non-toxic marriage. How much am I willing to put up with for the sake of the DDs? I have put up with a lot for a year but I can't see this going on forever. WW thinks if she gives me SF every once in a while that I am good for another few days. The truth is that I hate SF with her because there is no passion in it.

I also may just be venting anger but the more time that goes by, I begin to doubt that. I am not really all that angry. I am beginning to be somewhat happy. I just don't know. I wish we could just stay separated for a long time and see how it all goes. I am afraid she is coming back too soon. Keep in mind I don't know when she is coming back but it will still be too soon. Yes the girls miss her but they are doing fine without her here. WW coming back is not going to make anything better.

I like being a single dad. This is the most fun I have had in years. Now I have to go crush up two boxes of Exlax and mix it with diluted lye soap.

I may have a brilliant plan for the color of the day issue. Instead of new clothes how about hair accessories or ribbons to pin on DD's clothes that match the color of the day?

Now for the breaking up of your marriage.

Was that really your choice? Didn't G start the ball rolling by being a WW? Hasn't she kept the ball rolling by being unwilling to understand the pain this has caused you & being unwilling to do what it takes to repair the M?

The fact that you may decide you can't be married to your WW due to the devistation caused by infidelity doesn't mean you've caused the break of your M.

I sucked up a lot when it came time to tell our boys we were Ding. Though it was ex's choice to D my IC suggested we present a united front saying WE decided to D due to xyz. It was the right choice at the time but it certainly wasn't the end. The boys have since pieced things together & through many talks know it was their father's choice. They even wonder about infidelity. I can only tell them I don't know for sure, that I have to wonder & suspect, but you'll have to ask you dad.

I will own my part in what was not a good marriage for either of us. I will not own any part of his choice to commit adultry. That is his alone & whether or not he admits it one day it was a HUGE part in the demise of our M. The same is true for you Pio.

I never thought I'd like being a single mom, but I do. I feel so much freer to be myself with my boys & they feel freer with me too. We often have more fun now than we did with ex because he can be a stiff.

But remember I am an engineer. We fix problems and, when we can't, we are a failure. I have a vague recollection of who had the affair. I remember who hung onto that affair and would not let go. But I also remember who is the one who owns up to responsibility. It is my responsibility to provide for my DDs and provide them a family. The problem is there is no good solution. So now we are dealing in mitigation. I know how to do that too, as an engineer. I just don't know what are the mitigating factors in this situation. I am perfectly willing to be a single parent. I will dare you to find a better one (with a little more practice). I just want gemela to stay away for a good long while. My DDs are young and they have no real concept of time. DD2 is fond of saying "once, a long time ago..." - that means "yesterday" in her language.

Hi Pio,


Of course I am not sure!...

...like Star Trek.... we humans are travelling the 'uncharted territories' of feelings and emotions....

...OH!....that brings to mind a book I read that referred to the exciting journey of.......exploring and getting to know our inner 'emotional field/garden'.... from our beautiful flower beds to our buried mines....I really like that image....so I guess that would make us...garden keepers!

Actually....what I probably meant was.....this is a good time for you to 'vent' here....get your 'anger' out of your system...so that when and if G. gets back....you will do a better job with AO.....because in some of your last exchanges with G....thought you were having a bit of trouble keeping that son of a %%%% of a 'lovebuster'..... under control...

Pio...take the time now to figure out what's underneath it for you...I can't remember what Dr. Phil says exactly ....but more or less....that 'anger' is a secondary emotion....let me think.....according to him....underneath it are a couple of options: fear....pain....sadness....frustration.... something along those lines! ....anger is just a 'mask'....

and also....sure....look after the girls....Papa Pio.....but... please look after yourself....make time to see friends...get some 'adults' in the mix...what do you like...golfing? (personally....I have not yet figured out the 'thrill' of that sport...uhmmmm.... I think I may get heck from Todd....think he's a golfer!)...don't even know if it's an option for you....out there in the desert!..... otherwise..... I think you will have one MEAN TAKER on your hands to handle.... and you don't want IT to come out when and if G. gets back.....



....well....get your super duper spreadsheet to the nth decimal and figure it out.....a big guy like you is hard to miss behind a 5 and 7 year old!


Pio..it looks to me that you are doing just fine..... and TT has some ideas for you to try.....and there will be others! ....but keep up the good work!

As Nams says:


..and like Nams, am wondering

Pio,

I think it's good that you're being introspective and looking at what effects your childhood has had on you and how you've parented in the past. You are seeing what you did wrong and why. And most importantly, you are fixing it and trying to do what's best for your kids and making them come first.

The one thing that I think you need to do to move forward is to be more realistic about Gemela and what she's truly capable of. You want and need for her to feel remorse and to show you that she wants to be back in the marraige. You were able to take a good look at yourself and make some changes. Can you do the same with Gemela and try to see what drives her and if it's even a reasonable expectation for her to be do what you feel you need from her?

The reason I say all this is because of a post you made a few days ago where you talked about how abusive Gemela had been to the girls -- that you had to step in and threaten to do to her what she did to the kids to make her stop -- things like hitting the girls with shoes. That is just so, so messed up. You did what you had to do to get G under control and to protect your kids. But the fact that she is treating her kids that way and that the only way she'd stop is if she got treated the same way... well... that really tells you something about her. If that's how she interacts with young children, how could she possibly have the ability to interact with you on a sensitive and caring level? It's like if you brought a second grader into work and expected them to do the job and then got upset when they couldn't. Has she shown that she's even aware of how to interact with other people?

She needs some serious help and I really wonder if she can be helped if she doesn't have the realization that what she has done to you and the children is wrong. My biggest concern about you divorcing her is that she will have the kids alone without you around to keep her under control. Do you really want her having the kids on her own for weeks or months at a time? But the flip side of that is that you have to figure out how to help her be a better mother if she's home and if you have to determine if you can live with someone like her with the new understanding you have of yourself and the new relationship that you're building with your girls.

I just don't see any easy answers for this situation. Would Gemela be open to some intensive counseling and parenting classes?

One condition I would make for her coming home is that she gets some professional help. If there isn't anyone there, maybe she could do phone counseling with someone in the States.

I really, really feel for you. You should feel really good about yourself that you're taking good care of your girls and protecting them from more chaos.

Because in golf, until you shoot an 18, there is always room for improvement.

We have a world class golf course a mile away. I have my own golf cart.

Golf is not a game. Golf is about character. I don't enjoy golf. I play golf. I'm reasonably good at golf. If I never swing a golf club again in my life, I won't miss it. That's because golf is a conflict of interest.

GrownUp,

Gemela's mother hit her with shoes and slapped her. It is somewhat cultural. Doesn't make it right. But things that would get you arrested in the USA are common practice in Mexico. My mother spanked me so I don't mind the shoe if it is reasonable. But gemela started going over the top with it - I mean using a lot of force. She admitted it and told me she was afraid of how she was treating the girls and was glad that I stopped her.

I think gemela is a good mother. She just started taking her stress out on the girls.

Pio,



.....with a WS, you mean!

...and as long as G. chooses to remain a WW....and not committ to M.....and you can't trust her....I don't see it as a 'unilateral' decision on your part.....

...and if you are considering 'forcing' yourself to live with a WW for the benefit of the girls...well...I think to the contrary.... it would not be in the interest of your DDs! ....because then you would go nuts....and they would have nobody!


That's what happens when a WS is no longer in the picture... and if G. comes back a WS....it may not be a good idea for you to live under the same roof!



Exactly....so...could she stay somewhere else? Get some professional to help the two of you 'communicate' better.... if G. says she wants to stay married.... what does 'staying married' mean to her? ....that sort of thing....



....that's why I am in PLAN B.....I would rather live and face the challenges of life alone...than with a WS!
....very damaging....very toxic....

....so...I don't see you breaking up the family.... you would like your W back..... but given that for now you only have the choice to live, or not, with a WS.... need I say more?

...and I am not sure you are in a position to help G. get a clear understanding of what it would mean 'committing to the M'......let alone act on that..... a neutral professional I think would be better



Well...that's something else you will have to work on Pio..... sometimes.... things can't always be fixed... the best one can hope for is....manage it!

(..want to give credit for this last idea where it is due....and it goes to Dr. Phil!)

Well DDs are fed, bathed, hair brushed, teeth brushed, prayed and tucked in. I'm beat. I'm going to bed. Where is ToddAC? On a bender? Goodnight.

ToddAC,
Hope I did not offend you back when you told me I talk too much...if so, I apologize...I have the gift of putting my boot in my mouth!!! How goes the progress with WW?

Pio,
I had a Pio morning and LOL thinking of you. On Friday I reviewed all 3 kids assignment notebooks and homework needs etc. Well, lets just say with all the dynamics of kids, soccer, infidelity, neighbors and home maintenance I seemed to tuck what I read back into the corners of my mind. The w/e was eventful but I'll get into that later. This morning DD1 had to get up 15 min early to put her new contacts in she was thrilled to get them and cried she was so happy to be able to see. Anyway, I packed lunches and got all the clothes laid out and woke up the troops. They all got dressed and were eating. T-20minutes to bus arrival. I am reviewing and signing the assignment notebooks when I notice...they are all supposed to be wearing red, white and blue!!!! Alarm Red, Alarm Red, this throws a huge wrench into the morning routine...I shuffle around and find appropriate clothing and get 2 out of 3 to change. DD1 refuses saying she is comfortable in what she has on and doesn't care if she has the right colors on. Ok, how patriotic is that in remembrance of 9-11 my DD1 wears...PINK! Oh well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad. I thought of you Pio the entire time.

Lots of good advice from Luna, Grown-up, Kiwi and the rest of the gang.

Update on my sitch: H attended all kid functions this w/e. Stayed out all night Sat and made me mental...Sunday I confess to falling off the Pio plan. I found some items that were left out in the open and instead of just ignoring the storm trooper appeared and called out H on them...I think I was so hurt from his behavior Sat night that I really didn't think I could do anymore damage so I shot from the hip. I ended up apologizing for the comments and then H asked me what I really wanted. I listed at least 10 things: I want to be able to feel safe and not worry about what you do and who you are with; I want to never have to ask an "interrogating" question b/c you will have already shared all/anything with me that I should as your wife know about; I want to be able to trust you again; I want you to want to spend your time and $ with me and your family ...get the picture

H ran an errand last eve and was gone for 3 hours...I was ill from lack of sleep and horrific allergies so at 2130 I chugged some Nyquil and hit the sack...he came home after so we didn't talk. This morning he stayed home which is strange...I sent the kids off to school and he left saying he had to stop at work for a few minutes...he then called and asked what I was doing...asked me to go out with him. He took me to breakfast and then to a gallery. I was very touched. Only negative was that he had been to the gallery before...he was telling me about where things were and how it was when he was there before. I was so stressed wondering who he had been there with...he says he was alone but of course I have zero trust still so....anyway I kept telling myself that he asked me to go, took me and was finally making an effort to spend time with me so I should look at the positive and ignore my anxiety. Overall it went well, we had a nice morning. We have MC tomorrow so we will see what that brings.

Pio, I feel you are my accountability mentor so...one strike against me so far.

In general: I was thinking about Pio's sitch and how analytical he is...there is something that made G resort to her A behavior. I think the key is finding out what the underlying problem is. HNHN should be helpful in identifying what may have been missing. I have read it and would love for my H to fill out the Q but I think at this point it would be overkill...maybe the MC will give it as an assignment and take the heat off of me. I think that everyone is correct in advising IC/MC to get to the root of the problem.

Anyone who has been through MC have any tips on what good homework assignments brought BS/WS closer together? I checked out a book on MC homework assignments but haven't got to open it yet...I'll keep you all posted if I find any gems.

Pio, et al,

The past twenty four hours have not been so good. I didn't feel well last night, just "out of sorts". Earlier today, a numbness and tingling started in my head. I just got a callback from my doc and he wants me to go to the hospital. DS1 is on the way. Don't know how long I'll be there but will post when I return.

Prayers and hugz ToddAC.

Hi Nams,



...maybe you haven't gotten where you need to be, yet.... can you afford to keep going a little while longer pursuing your interest with 'employability' in mind before issues of 'practicality' take over?

...because nothing beats the combination of earning a living doing something you enjoy!

.....but then...it would be hard to pursue and focus on your interests....if you couldn't sleep at night....and say.... you could not feed your 3 baby birds!

....I like the 'combo' idea... a little bit of this and a little bit of that!



Nams, if I have learned one thing, and one thing only from the past year that I have been on the MB Board is that...

...as long as WS chooses to remain a WS.....there is nothing a BS can do to save M...that's the hard part to accept....both need to want to.... and WS needs to shift priority back to the S and family from a very self-centered state of mind

.....sounds to me your WS was 'buying' time...a WS 'giving it a year'.....just means.....so that one day I can at least say: I tried.... then...separate.... and try to legitimize A with OW.....

...but, sooner or later, as you can tell already in your case...the TRUTH does come out!



Nams...no need for details....none of us had a perfect M.....don't think there is such an 'animal'.....because we are humans.... we make mistakes... we correct them....we get help....but work WITHIN the marriage..... and if there is a problem too difficult to overcome....there is separation and divorce.... an A is never an option no matter how much WS's try to 'justify' this action......

...in my book....it just ISN'T.....

....when my WS attempted to give me reasons why he felt our M 'all of sudden' wasn't working..... I said: STOP..... after 20 yrs together.... you can find whatever you need to 'justify' leaving....because it's what you want to do!

....now, on the other hand, because I want to save the marriage....within those same 20 yrs I can find all the reasons to save it!

....bottom line.... both partners need to want to save the M.... or it won't work. Period.

Actually, Nams....



..you need to look at this for one reason and one reason only.....to avoid making the same mistakes twice!

Luna is so right Nams...

My first marriage ended b/c I thought I could change my H...he didn't want kids and guess what...after 6 years he still didn't want kids...we ended up divorcing b/c this...FF to today...he still doesn't have kids

My current M...thought I learned but surprise...I have been trying to change my H's behavior since the start of our M...all of the behaviors existed from the start but again, I thought I could change them

A little analysis and introspection could save you repeating history