Well I have been watching over these past weeks and what I saw was that you pumped yourself up to believe in R because several posters challenged you to do it. Nothing wrong with that BTW and I am often thankful for the encouragement I get. But I saw you do an about face on the R issue without any change in behavior from WW. So yes you set yourself up for a fall. The question of whether R is still possible or not remains unchanged. Your WW's behavior remains unchanged. Since you are in Plan B, you really need to maintain strict NC. Your plan is having it's effect. You are doing quite well. But your best chance for R is to NOT talk to WW IMHO.

I'm sorry you have to put up with this Todd. It's very cruel of her. What a witch.

Didn't regreted and her OM's meet in a "thematic" site?

Oh...short stories - almost missed that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Todd, I know your sons' reaction spurred you on to think about reconciliation but, seriously, it is still your life and you would be setting yourself up for extreme unhappiness, whereas your son will get older and get a relationship and a family of his own.

Look, if I can face that I behaved like an immature, selfish 5 year old then anyone can, whatever their culture, background and nationality.

WTH is a "thematic" site?

I guess you could call this a thematic site.

Larousse, the rough game you are talking about is indeed rugby. NZ is hosting the rugby world cup in 2008. BigK is talking about Australian Football, slightly rougher than rugby and only understood by Australians.

Dan Carter may have a girlfriend, I'm not sure about that. Not only is he goregous to look at but he's a genuinely nice guy and a brilliant rugby player.

Pio,

My comment about the Dan football player and the comments about how you talk to G made me think about something you mentioned. I think you were in Arkansas with G and you bought and Enquirer and there was a lurid* story about some celebrity and you asked G what would she do if she would find Brat Pit in a hotel corridor...

She answered that she didn't know and you wrote that you were f*d up with her lack of understanding about infidelity impact or what her behavior should... something like that.

I was thinking that the affair changed many things in your relationship and that things in the past could have been inocent now you would look them under other eyes.

Frankly if you asked me that, about Brat Pit, I do like him and I would have made a checky* comment like, I would have taken a picture of him running away from a crazy fan or I would have been so petrified that I would have done anything or I would pretend to be from the Hotel Spa and told him that the administration was sending him a free masage.

What I want to say about the way you reacted in the context you told us, is that I have the impression that you set G for failure sometimes. Your questions was very tricky and really borders fantasy. She can't answer you in the way she may had done preaffair but at the same time she doesn't know the answer you are waiting for.
Instead of waiting a specific kind of answer from her that shows she has reflected about the consecuences of her affair you could have mentioned to her in a calm, not lecturing style that since the affair you were much more sensible to infidelity in the Media. Maybe even comment that you need from her to understand that infidelity is unaceptable in a marriage.

My impression is that you keep hurting yourself, you are not letting go and you don't tell her exactly what you need from her to let go. On the other hand you need to make yourself attractive to G, even now. There is nothing wrong with sharing some cheerfulness and chit chat. You can set your boundaries and your requirements without being an ogre.

I was reading the Four Negotiation rules here on MB and the secind condition is a cheerful attitude.

You have said that SF is not one of your main EN and that you would tell G so if she just would ask. Why don't you tell her that, what are your EN, how she can fullfil them. If after you have discussed your needs with her and how you need them to be filled if she doesn't do it then you can feel disappointed not before.

yesterday Orchid posted something to a dad of three children, something like: He would get more if he gave less. It's my impression that you have a hard time verbilizing what do you need from her and how and that you end doing too much for her and then you resent her.

Loving her, making her fall in love with you doesn't mean to me to pamper her, spend on her or giving your time and resources to please her. To me the subtle process of be kept on my toes, to be pasionate about a man, has more to do with his own personality, how he moves himself in the world.

MB is not against recover pasion and keep a pasionate marriage. There are many things you can do, doing less to arise G pasion. Being affectionate but not sexual. Just a barely there physical contact.

I feel silly writing about this but I have seen a serious poster writing about it to a BS. She mentioned to him the importance of his appearance, his hygiene, some new clothes, all in his style and budget but that showed a man that takes care of him. Personally I like manly underweare with style. No baggie cotton. Maybe those things are not important, yet, for G they may be important as she seems updated in fashion and things like that.

I feel today you got very interesting advice from several posters, why don't you separate it, maybe post it in a word document, think about it.

What du y'think?

I don't really think AFL is rougher than Rugby Jen - it's a very physical running game but not rougher than Thugby ... whoops I mean Rugby.

After the initial reaction on WW's part, there was change in her. But that was a sober WW. Drunk WW is a different person. She will not enterain that she is an alcholic or that she even has a drinking problem. Tonight, she returned to square one dated March 2006.

larousse,

Are you drinking tequila tonight?

Todd,

sorry about that. Could you consider a chat with the Harleys? Recently I have been listening to their radio program and it's very interesting to get the 'original' version of his theories. He presents his sessions as Marriage coaching more than Marriage counseling and maybe under that idea it would sound less 'crazy' to your WW.

If she indeed has an addiction things get much more complicated...

My impression is that she has realized that she wants her marriage back but without giving anything back. This is a DJ but maybe she realized that at her age it won't be so easy to get a husband like you again. Oops.

Hahahaha Todd. I'm drinking tequila. Lol. Actually I'm drinking a charro negro, like a black cowboy, lol. It's coke with tequila.

By the way. Sorry Drucilla. Don Julio is a brand that has barely 20 years of existance. The tequila might be from 1942 and was bought by the brand recently.

Larousse,

This is going to sound contradictory because here I am on the MB website, but I don't like Harley's philosophy and approach. I am going to see Frank Pittman here in Atlanta, if and when I ever get to drive again.

Todd,

I'm glad that you are going to see Pittman, I'm very curious actually.

I like Harley's philosophy because it seems so simply and at the same time it requires so many changes and changes in the only person we can change, us.

I'm secret fan of LovinAnyway too. She has a way to put the ball back on the personal responsability court.

larousse,

Are you curious how I knew you were drinking tequila?

BTW, the mariachi had to play the song Tequila three times tonight for all the drunk gringos.

Yes, Todd, I'm curious, tell me, please...

Also I don't ask about your health because I don't want to make you feel uncomfortable but I'm curious about the results of the results. I meant, the doctors mesured the impact of the treatment and they didn't see a change and then they were going to make an assesment or something like that?

Todd, I know you don't like the Harley's philosophy and from what I've read you say about Frank Pittman he certainly sounds like he's very good, but to be honest, HNHN really struck a chord with me.

Todd, you must know your wife like the back of your hand. I know that after 32 years of marriage to Rob, I know him better than I know anyone on earth.

Do you talk with each other like a "married" couple or has too much happened. I said a while back on here that d-day and the months after were the only times Rob and I ever felt uncomfortable with each other.

Not sure where I'm going with this. I think perhaps I'm saying that there has to be some common ground and history where you still connect.

Larousse, I also agree about the Brad Pitt comment. However, I would say "don't be stupid, of course not" if Rob asked me a question like Pio asked Gemela.

Most people get the difference between celebrities and "real" people. Rob has a real thing for Marianne Faithfull (when she was young and beautiful) but it's not threatening, it's just one of those "yeah, they're gorgeous, but they're nothing to do with my real life and I wouldn't even want them to be."

A woman posted on the other site that she had gone to see Pittman and that he was "chauvinistic" and expensive. I will be sure not to wear a skirt that day.



Harley's approach is not without merit. He is extremely pro-marriage which is laudable. His entire approach is geared towards saving marriges which again is good. Where I have the problem is when he says that problems in the marriage made the affair possible, but that an affair is never acceptable or words to that effect. If that is true, then whenever problems exist in a marriage, which I submit are the vast majority at any point in time, at least one of the spouses will have an affair. The other point is that if his approach is true, why didn't the BS have an affair? I am not expressing myself very clearly tonight. I have had a couple of drinks but shhhh.... don't tell Pio. He will launch into a lecture.

larousse,

When I spoke to G on the phone she said she was tired of being there and she wanted to come back here. I asked when she wanted to come back. She said the end of the month. I asked if she had made her reservations yet. She had not. Truns out that SIL may be spending another week in Cancun in October and G wants to go.

This bothers me. Can you tell me why?

larousse,

You become a little more aggressive especially in your feedback to Pio. I suspect that you, just as regreted/tear/et al, project your sitch onto Pio's sitch, especially his WW because of obvious reasons. But, I should add, you are always extremely intelligent and expressive. Pio and I agree that you are smarter than he and I put together which means your IQ is at least 100.


I am to get another followup MRI thirty days after the last one whenever that is. Hopefully, that one will show some progress. Or is it regress?

So, Todd, can you tell I'm drinking red wine.

Oh, it's the evening, I must be.

It's not funny really.

Harley doesn't say that whenever problems exist in a marriage one person will have an A. When Rob and I did the EN survey, turns out I was meeting every one of his needs and then some. His meeting of mine wasn't quite up there.

Rob's top EN is SF, which I've met enthusiastically and willingly (and because I've wanted to because it's right up there for me as well) for 32 years. I asked him once, what if I withdrew SF, or wasn't as enthusiastic as him, how would he feel about our marriage then. He said that would be a whole new ball game.