That age difference doesn't bother you larousse?

Pio when you told her the lies were the most devestating did G show any signs of understanding that?

I remember ex would look at me with the blankest of expressions when I'd say things like that. Made me want to punch him in the face. I told him that & he still looked at me blankly.

Nams,

I guess not only it doesn't bother me but somehow I'm used to men older than me. It troubled me a little in the past to be 'wired' that way but the more I got to develope a job of my own the more secure I feel with myself.

So, maybe in the past, in my first relatiionship, it was a misture of love, admiration and need of a father figure.

Now, I think I have more clear that my partner is not my father and at the same time I recognise in me the need to feel 'protected' even if it really doesn't happen in the reality of the relationship.

It's not something I look for, lol, specifically in a man. I have friends my own age.

Dr. Harley has a list of five things that somehow show the success prognosis of a marriage. I just remember two, Same values and same cultural background but age is not included.

I can understand the attraction of an older man. After being with ex who is 5 years younger than I am I'm more likely to look for an older man too. Unless it's clear a younger man, & I mean like a year or two younger no more, is sufficiently mature & a MLC is not in the offing I'd prefer an older man.

And the problem with this is.....?

BTW, just back from dinner with DS1. Very interesting. He is outside on cell talking to XFGF now. She keeps calling and begging him back. I have to bite my tongue. Anyway, DS1 is spending the night. I will write a post to tell everyone what he said at dinner. Very interesting.

Hi Todd!

What exactly constitutes the same cultural background?

Pio comes, he disappears. Todd comes, he disappears. Understandable for both of them.

Todd, I thought DS1's FGF was history & they were just friends? Guess she was working on getting him softened up.

Nam,
Same cultural background means same cultural references. Dr. Harley expressed it very well and I can't remember his exact words but he said the more different the background the harder they would have to work at comunicate themselves.

He put the typical example of people from different religions or too radical different lifestyles. He put also the example of Asian-Occidental. Different social classes.

I just remember, he just published a new book called 'I promise you' and I think he writes about those values extensively in it.

Hi Todd,

what kind of restaurant did you visit today?

Stop biting your tongue, you have not much left to bite in your body.

I'll have to check that out. I had many of his books & gave them to my niece when she was having difficulty in her M. I'm sure she never even looked at them. I'll have to ask for them back, but to be honest they will have such bad feelings associated with them I just don't know if I can get past that.

I guess if I look at them in the context of what would be beneficial to know for any future relationship I could do it.

Nams,

5 years doesn't seem many, how did the age difference work for you?

larousse, I know it's not fair to judge others by the actions of ex but I see younger men, even just a couple of years younger, & I think about some of the traits ex had & wonder if they have them too.

How much was his age? How much was ex & his specific circumstances? It's likely much more of his stuff was due to his FOO, his lack of emotional maturity, lack of abilility to be emotionally initmate, personality, etc. Still...I generalize, not fair.

I actually had a man contact me recently who was 42 & I jsut couldn't consider him seriously. He was kinda sweet though when he said he was about to turn 43 & did that make a difference. Hey, maybe I'm just not ready to date! Gawd, that would be a depressing thought.

Nam,

he didn't have those traits when you dated him?

DS1 picked me up a few hours ago and we went to dinner. We went Italian and it was great. I had Red Snapper Francese and DS1 had Cioppino. Recall that DS1 is diametrically opposed to the position of DS3. DS2 is somewhere in between the two. He started by saying that DS3 told him that WW and I were meeting for dinner tomorrow night and that we were going to talk. Apparently, WW called DS3 and put the spin she wanted on the sitch. Fine. DS1 reminded me that WW still has shown no remorse, no guilt and in fact, was currently still denying the affair to everyone who will listen. He told me that WW had lectured DS3 about “unconditional love”. IOW, if I really loved her, I would not let her affair get in the way of my love for her. But, she quickly added that she had no affair but recognized that I thought she had. WW went on to tell DS3 that she will never forgive me for exposure. I asked DS1 how did DS3 respond to her statement. He said he didn’t know and that DS3 probably said nothing because he is doing his best to not take sides.

I took that as an opportunity to remind DS1 that I do not want any DS taking sides with either of us. He reminded me that he is not taking sides per se, but resents what his Mom did and especially the fact that she cannot face what she has done. He said: Dad, here is a perfect example. Mom talks about unconditional love that you should have regardless of her affair, but she doesn’t believe in unconditional love with regards to your exposing her A. That is exactly what I am talking about. She is lost in her own pretzel logic. And you know she is drinking a lot right Dad? She calls DS3 when she gets drunk and cries in his ear.

Okay, that pissed me off. DS3 is 23, just got married and doesn’t need this [censored] from his Mom. DS1 added: Dad she keeps telling DS3 how unhappy she was with you and that’s why she could have had an affair but again, denies that she did. Were you unhappy with the marriage and with Mom before her affair? I have never expressed to any of my sons unhappiness that I may have felt with WW at any time. First, I don’t want any of my troubles to be a burden to them and secondly, it is simply unfair to lay that on them. This reminded me that WW had told DS’s for years how unhappy she was with me and told them she wanted to D me. Her doing this coincided with her A and it is obvious that what she was doing was seeking tacit and undisclosed approval of her A from sons. Not in so many words, but you get the idea hopefully.

My approach in our marriage has always been to love my wife with all my heart and soul and to work through any problems that may have arisen. But I was committed to her and to my marriage. I never imagined divorcing her or having an affair. When the realization of an affair first hits you, you try to hold on to what is already lost. I never considered whether I had been happy or what my chances were of being happy. Tonight, I have thought about my happiness, or lack thereof, a great deal. I now realize and accept that I was and am so unhappy about so many things in my marriage. I had put them aside because I knew that WW had lost her Mom, DS3 went off to college, she went through a MLC and then hit menopause. You just flex when your spouse hits those low and challenging points in their lives. I put my own happiness aside because I truly understood what she was going through.

My number one complaint is her drinking. It pervades so many parts and caused so many problems in our marriage. Another is our inability to have a calm, productive discussion. I am a calm, if intense, person and am very respectful in conversations. I wait for the other person to speak and when they finish, I say my piece. Not WW. She was raised in a large family that frankly is very rude and inconsiderate. And loud. I typically will get a few words out, and WW will interrupt and start raising her voice if not outright screaming. I then have two choices: scream over her or shut down. Her talking on the phone has been another issue for me. It probably sounds trite but you have no idea how much and long she can talk on the phone. Her cell bill every month is $400. Another area of unhappiness for me for the last few years was our SF life. I know that her SF drive naturally diminished when she hit menopause and I simply accepted it. Little did I know that she was being “serviced” somewhere else and that was also part of the problem. Honestly, we don’t have much in common anymore. I love to hike and camp in the mountains; she hates the mountains. I love classic rock, old R&B and classical; she loves anything she can dance to. She loves to dance and is an excellent dancer. I play the guitar. I read and think a lot and love politics. And of course math and science, etc. She loves gossip whether celebrity or family. I hate gossip. Okay, not hate, but don’t love it. I am a planner; she likes to “take her chances” on vacation reservations and the like. We went to Las Vegas years ago. We were standing in line to check in and I was talking to her and she had disappeared. There she was donating as much money as she could stuff into a one-armed bandit. She “spent” over $2,000 in just a few days. I got $10 worth of quarters and quit as soon as they were gone. I could go on but you get the idea.

So, it will be interesting tomorrow. I have a lot of thinking to do. At his point, I am not even sure if I am going to tell her I want things to work out. We’ll see. I guess a lot depends on her. We’ll see how much “unconditional love” she has.

OK, larousse, time to get in bed & read. I enjoyed talking with you. I'll be back in the a.m. to get the scoop from Todd & Pio if Pio's computer monitor isn't working overtime.

'night, sleep well.

I was just getting ready to sign off when I saw your post.

Wow Todd! You've done a lot of thinking about...you...what you need & want & that's just as it should be. You have gone through many of the things infidelity brings into the relationship. You've tried your best but without a willing partner there's a point where you hit the wall. Sounds like you're there.

Given the fact your WW seems to not show remorse, understanding of the devestation, what you need to desire the M (feels like I just wrote this to Pio) you're now at a point to care for yourself. Gawd, it sounds so healthy!

Thanks Nams. I feel the same way. Tomorrow should be interesting.

BTW, Pio and I are the same person. Are you ever noticed that we don't post at the same time? Hmmmm....

Todd, a lot to think about for you.

Isn't it interesting that people say they will divorce "when the children are old enough." I've said it before and I'll say it again, it doesn't matter how old the children are.