Well I posted on your email thread. Happy XX birthday BTW!

Thanks, Pio...

Pio, I'm confused....why does WW insist on taking things away from you, you're not the one that did anything wrong.

I don't get it... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

And why do you hate me? What'd I do?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

As posted on ENs:

The wife and DD13 went out shopping most of the day. I just lounged around the house. I thought to myself, why be vindictive and mean about the situation, so when they got home, I had a long discussion with the with and asked her to take notes. We discussed how we would split things and I think that she was surprised at how well it went.

We both cried several times. I said that I was sorry, but also how I wished that she had been more honest about things. She's been busy opening accounts and such and I hadn't a clue about any of it. I truly feel that she didn't do anything to help our situation. I am truly sorry about that.

We hashed out many points. There are several items to be negotiated, including child support. I said that I wanted us to remain a family in some sense of the word. She asked about help with maintaining the house and I said I would be glad to help. This would not include any financial support for the house. I told her that we should do things together and offered the possibility that we would want to date each other at some point.

I told her that everything we had negotiated was predicated on her removing the PDL to order me out of the house. I said that I would not be as generous if ordered from my own home.

At the end of the discussion, I felt that she had regrets. We talked about me getting copies of all of the legal papers. She said I could pick them up or be served. I said that I was not going to pick them up because I didn't want any papers. She reminded me that I wanted copies. I said I rather not have any papers at all, i.e. that we would not get divorced.

I told her that she would probably become more appreciative of me after I leave. There are not many men out there that would settle for what I settled for. Many are deeply shallow and single minded.

She said that she had changed as a person and that all of the changes that I had made were purely appearance oriented, i.e. that I as a person was still the same. She said she could not aks me to change who I was. I said that I would have done it. Oh well.

As I said, I have a feeling of relief. I need to start looking for a house or condo. I'll have a new houselhold to furnish basically from scratch.

My friend and I went out last night. We had a great time. I had a goal in mind for the evening and exceeded my expectations greatly. Life will go on.

Pio,

Chris is the neighbor. I told the wife yesterday that after we're divorced, she should start putting DD13 first. I don't think that wife has been doing that as she's been so wrapped up in her own situation. I told her that if I heard anything about 24-hour partying involved DD13 that we'll be back in court real soon now. I told her that I would recommend that she stay away from Chris and that scene and not promote her drinking in front of DD13. That's not the message to be sending.

I have absolutely zero evidence of an affair. I have bluntly asked her and she says there is no one else. I can't see where she sould have the time for it. Regardless, I feel that we're on an irrevocable course. I really don't feel too bad about it. I can leave knowing that I tried and that had she identified for me what she really wanted, I would have met it. There is a sense of closure to the worst year of my life.

Based upon last night's adventure, my new life will be fun.

And thanks to everyone for your sympathy and hugs. They are appreciated.

Seems coincidental that I have read all your posts, concluded that your neighbor is the OM, she wakes up in the night saying "Chris" and now he turns out to be the neighbor. Personally I am convinced he is your guy.

booka, so she still hasn't given you a reason why she wants a divorce? Have you separated at all? It doesn't really sound like she's too sure anymore on divorce. It sounds to me like she put it out there, and expected you to argue it and you didn't and now she's stuck and doesn't know how to change her mind. I guess I should go read your thread...

Spouses aren't making much sense to me today...maybe because my own spouse is confusing me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I'll go read your sitch booka so maybe I'm not so confused! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pio,

I thought so initially as well. There are reasons why I think not as well. I may never really know.

On the SF issue, I truly lost all of my desire for her. It was not a question of revenge in my mind. I had a long discussion with my therapist about this. All of my desire has been suppressed. I don't even masturbate often, perhpas once a week. The AD medication may have an effect here as well.

Let's just say that I had some desire last night while I was out.

stph20,

She has basically said that she has changed and I have not. She doesn't want to go on with our marriage in that condition. She has not really given me a chance to prove anything to her other than some physical changes I have made. Too bad so sad.

We have not separated yet. We slept in the same bed last night, although she said doing so made her uncomfortable. I said that I'm not sleeping on the couch and she can' either because of her back condition. I said, why should she be uncomfortable sleeping together as nothing is going on in the bedroom anyway.

The whole separation will be predicated on many factors. I need to find, puchase, close, and furnish a home. This will take cash. I want cash from her for the equity in the house and the contents of the house. I want to walk away and start anew.

I would never marry again for love. I will be protecting my heart for a long time.

stph20,

Obviously I wasn't serious...entirely. I don't really hate you...much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I goes back to you finding it necessary to remind me that I needed to honor my vows. I just hate that.

booka,

I think you are going to find out fairly soon who OM is.

Pio,

If there is one, I agree with you.

I've been looking online at houses. I take a kleenex where ever I go. It's that kind of day.

BigK, make Pio be nice to me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Pio, I know you don't really hate me...but I loooovvvveeee you!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I had forgotten that I said that...but yeah...listen to yourself once in a while, you actually can give good advice from time to time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

How are things in your sitch? How are your DD's reacting to everything?

Booka, I read your thread and I have to agree with Pio (ugh), it sounds like the neighbor is way too close for comfort.

Can you convince your wife to formally separate for a pre-determined amount of time before officially filing? Maybe giving yourselves space is all you both will need for a while. It's worth a try.

I'm a big believer in NOT filing for divorce right away, it's too big of a decision. Bigger, IMO, than getting married. You have been together too long to just let it all go like this, for no apparent reason. Once again, JMHO.

Luna,
As Todd could tell you, the fact that French is the language of your interactions with WS explains 99% of all your marital troubles. Nevertheless:

[color:"red"] JOYEUX ANNIVERSAIRE !!!!
[/color]
Stph2:

Pio loves very few people and he reacts better to Tough Love. You may want to try a harder approach. Have you considered to give 5 starts to this thread?

Pio,
Have you applied or discussed the 15 hrs a week of undivided attention? Your complains are justified and you should be able to reach an agreement with G about the use of the phone and to be sure of reserving quality time for the two of you.

Nam,

Could you post again the link to your new work, pretty please? I'm a little bit more obtuse than usual and can't find the link.

Booka,
I agree with Pio. I think your W has an EA and possible PA with the N. Contrary to what you have thought it seems to me that your W has planed this for a long while. If I were you I would snoop deeper. Somehow I don't think she has had IC and I doubt the reason to get on anticonceptives were her hormonal problems. If it had been the case the dr. would have sent her blood exams before and after the pill.
She could be hiding assets or the salary rise.
What do you think of talking to N's GF?
I strongly suggest you to talk to Dr. Harley or at least get the book Surviving an Affair.
Don't leave the house.
Don't discuss the divorce.
Get ready and informed but try to delay all the process.
If she get's verbally violent don't hesitate on calling the cops. It would not make your situation worse but would make her realize that she can't stomp all over you without consecuences and would help you in case she tries to remove you from the house.

[color:"blue"] Todd,

How are you feeling?
[/color]
2Much,
I'm sorry you are having such a hard time.

Hi Kiwi

I'm fine, for the most part.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

larousse,

One more star and I go to the mods. Don't mess with me! BTW, how are your two governments working out for you?

booka,

If Chris really is OM, I bet DD13 knows far more than she is telling you. There is no way your W has been able to keep that from her. W drinks way too much and people are not careful when drunk. In your case, there would not need to be a lot of physical evidence of an A. Close proximity means no phone calls or emails. If they do communicate, it could be something as simple as a window shade in a certain position.

As long as you are still there, I would get up, pretend to go to the gym, park my car around the corner and walk back quietly and observe for a few days. If you are still going to neighbor's with her for drinks, I would pretend to drink a lot (pour it out secretly?) and have to go home and then sneak back and observe. I used to get my MIL really drunk doing tequila shooters with her. What she didn't know was that tea looks pretty much like tequila and I drank tea. She really loved to do shooters but wouldn't do it alone so that was my little present for her. She also loved Cuba Libres. I put my rum in hers and drank straight coke. I've never been able to drink all that much because alcohol puts me pretty much to sleep. I think that is what W is counting on with you.

Have you considered hiring a PI? I think within a week you would know everything you needed to.

Oh, WW did go to the doctor and has been diagnosed with vertigo. Last night went pretty well. We painted bird houses again and I printed photos while she scrapbooked. Then we had a crisis putting DDs to bed. DD1 thinks WW loves DD2 more than her and has decided she is not a very good daughter. She was crying uncontrollably. I had to go talk to her finally and think I was able to convince her that she was a really wonderful daughter and I reminded her of all the things she does so well and how we have to scold DD2 for things she does wrong too. We always ask DD2 why she can't clean her room like DD1, etc. Poor little girl. If it weren't so sad it would be funny - the things they get upset about.

Since she was born in September, my WW is also a vertigo. I did not know it is a mental disorder but it does explain a lot...

Well as is documented here, I'm a vertigo too yet I still function okay. WW has me worried though. I hope I don't have all those problems when I'm her age!

booka,

It sounds like the mention of D has made you decide to throw in the towel. In reading your thread, I'm not sure I wouldn't do the same thing. If you do go that way, you should still pay attention to MB as it will help you in future relationships. You said you would never marry again for love. What would you marry for? If you don't marry for love, I hope you never decide to get married. It just doesn't seem fair to your next W and might easily lead to yet another A for at least one of you.

If your W is an alcoholic, the math is pretty simple. You get in the way of her EN while Chris feeds the need. Since Todd seems to be back, maybe you two can exchange notes on alcoholic wives. I think I remember that there is a thread around specifically dealing with that issue. I can't remember whose thread it is though and I haven't seen it in a while.

Pio,

What is the cause of WW's vertigo?

[color:"green"]Oh, I'm soooo afraid. I can't stop trembling. [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



For those who don't know. Mexico had presidential elections last summer. The results were very close for 0.5 or something like that. There is a chance that there was a fraud but the looser, who might be the legal winer, is not a real good option. He now has intalled a parallel goverment that has no power at all. We, as country should push for the respect to the legal state but on the one hand the winner doesn't want to admit his lost and on the other many people really don't want the looser on the power although they didn't vote for the winner.

There are chaos eruptions and some focalized violence. My very calm street had one car in fire and other vandalized in one week. Things seem calm for a while.

There is a rumor that could became in selfulfilled* profecy that every 100 years 1810, 1910, Mexico solves it's diferences with blood. I don't believe things with get there but may get closer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Booka,

We may seem too direct. It's for economy purpouses. I encourage you to consult with the experts, aka The Harley's. Some more 'don't' while you get the book Surviving an Affair.

Don't do 'relationship talk'.
Don't lecture her.
Don't tell her she's inmoral. She's but that won't get her back to you. Instead you asure her that you can have a great marriage with love and romance. Don't insist too much on it, though.
Don't over expose. Don't warn her that you may expose her.
You may want to play a card at this stage. Confront N, tell him that you know that he and your W have contact during the day and that you want him to back off so you and your W can solve your problems. If you word it right you may get more info than you expect. Something like, 'I know my wife has a crush on you...' or something like that.

Cut N of your social circle and protect your daughter from him.
When you refuse to go along with the divorce she's going to get very angry. Be ready and don't let her anger provoque yours.

You may feel tempted to give her a smooth divorce but if she's a WW she won't play fair with you. Get ready.

Don't drink.
Avoid close friendships with women.