STBXW has already filed. She's been quite busy. I should be served today.

We have vowed to be friendly and all procedural items are going very well. I'm still at home. We have had many talks with no arguments since Saturday morning. I'm encouraged by what we were able to accomplish this weekend after the bomb was dropped.

I'm done with this marriage. All I want is out of it. Any recovery efforts would have to be after divorce and after I heal. We actually discussed quite a few post-divorce items.

Where ever I move, it will be a distance away from the whole current scene. I need the space. I have a strong preference for the area where I looked at the house. It was a perfect man's pad. It would be perfect for me. I think that I can afford it.

Thanks for all of you advice. I am emotionally drained by this weekend's and previous events. I cried quite a bit yesterday. I only stopped when I went to look at the house. I need a purpose and have found one. I don't love my wife any more. She's put me through too much. I need the time and space.

TT,

My issue on that thread was that Suzet is throwing a "see I told you so" regarding one specific point although she never did explain the exact context to Dr. H of why she asked the question. I also feel she is cherry picking which MB principles she chooses to follow and which she doesn't. I simply don't understand why she even started the thread. She absolutely refuses to consider extreme measures but refuses exposure as well. I won't do the mandatory one but get off my case for not doing the optional one. Her follow up email to Dr. H was posed in such a way as to avoid him having to tell her what she did not want to hear.

I have not considered Suzet as a FWW. I still think of her as a WW. JMO but there it is. Kiwi doesn't work with OM. Although they haven't left the country, there is minimal chance of contact. If you recall I was pretty hard on Kiwi during her bar visit incidents.

I don't think most of my posts have been directed specifically at Suzet.

Booka,

you want to end the pain but the divorce won't end it.
Please contact Dr. Harley and read about infidelity on this site.

Your own inteligence is blinding you. You didn't see the infidelity and you didn't see the divorce coming.

You can recover the love for your wife if, when she ends her EA or PA.

Divorce will affect you and your daughter for years to come.

Pio,

I am no Saint...I was comforting no one...it was all in print and I got a hold of it...thanks to you and your history I was smart enough this time to make copies which was good since WH opened, glanced and shredded without even reading.

Larousse,
WH will not communicate a plan which is part of problem...he does his own thing which is why when he quit his job and NC with all OW I had no idea and thought that he was planning to make all these changes for some OW and not me. WH insists he is being totally honest now...disclosed some other info unrelated to infidelity. Bad thing is at this point I don't believe anything or trust anything. We actually had a long talk about all of this which is what resulted in me telling him it would be best for him to move out. I'm all messed up emotionally and have used almost every ounce of objectivity and control in dealing with these past 9 months. I think the hardest part would be ahead if he is truly willing to commit. He will not verbally commit to marriage or divorce which was the deal breaker. He says if he promises to try and work and fails then he will be a liar again. Other times he says he just doesn't know what he wants. I have no idea how to get from zero trust to a shred of trust if I don't have some plan for accountability. Any attempt to discuss this results in a discussion that goes like this..."you want me to cut anything and everything out of my life and be totally dependent on you and then you will be happy". No, I want you to be independent, responsible, accountable and interdependent. HHHHMMMMMM.

The whole moving out thing is not going to work as it is now b/c he keeps calling and coming by to pick things up. Looks devastated and is trying to joke and break the ice...even trying for SF which I stated would only happen if we had some type of commitment to recover and a plan.
He will be watching kids on and off during the week so I think this is pretty much a waste unless it becomes a real plan B...

Missed you guys!

...been busy 'celebrating'...it was a milestone birthday... friends outdid themselves!

...am going to catch up and see where you are all at!

((((((((((((((((TKO)))))))))))))))

Happy Belated Birthday Luna!!

DD arrives home on Saturday. I am just SO excited, I just can't wait to see her walking out of the customs hall.

Thanks, Kiwi...

How long has your DD been away?

Hi Luna, she's been away 7 months but it feels longer.

I have some updates over at my thread on ENs. I still have no concrete evidence of an affair and I don't want to invest any time snooping around. I'm tired of the whole scene. I just don't care anymore. Your cajoling will not change my mind.

STBXW said some time ago under extreme duress of her own creation that sh would never be what I wanted her to be and vice versa for me. She wants something different, and so do I. I don't want to go through the rest of my life with zero affection and SF. I feel that I have already wasted years of my life. I can't let her invalidate me as a person any longer, it's just not healthy for me anymore.

I had a long phone conversation that ended with me in tears. I will post a copy of an email I sent that explains the topic of our conversation.

Here's the email (the attachment was a PDF of our 401K rules):

Read the attached, starting a page-17. I can only get a 5-year loan for $50,000 from the 401K until I retire. The loan is supposed to be at market rates, which would make it a larger payment than a 15-year or 30-year conventional note. Therefore, the 401K may be useless to me.

Think alternately of this. Say our house appraises for $180,000.00 (I think it will go for more). Subtract $30,000.00 outstanding debt and you have $150,000.00 in equity, not including contents. Divide $150,000.00 in half and you get $75,000.00. You would then refinance for $105,000.00 and pay me the $75,000.00. This would not include contents, which would need to be figured into this.

Say I purchase that house that I like for $180,000.00 (maybe less, it's a buyer's market). Without any cash from you, I take on a note for the full amount on a house that might be less valuable than our current house, while you have what is in effect a $30,000.00 note. Does that seem fair? Plus, I have very limited cash after legal fees to furnish a house.

So, I get to keep my retirement to be used after 3-years to pay down a $180,00.00 note, while you could pay down the $30,000.00 in a relatively short time (less than 5-years?). So, I won't be retiring and will be paying a 15 to 30-year note and you'll be debt-free for our current house. Does that seem fair?

Let's throw around a number. Suppose you gave m $85,000.00 for equity and contents. That means you take on a $115,000.00 note. I take $25,000.00 to furnish the house. I need to furnish for Kate as well as myself. That’s would leave me with $60,000.00 to be used as a down payment. Suppose again that I pay $180,000.00 for the house and finance $120,000.00 of it, using the $60,000.00 as a down payment. Then I can avoid mortgage insurance. I still have $5000.00 more in debt than you do. Anything else you want to do with our current house is your expense. Does this seem to you to be tilted in my favor somehow?

I actually think that the $85,000.00 is a very reasonable amount.

And in the example where I used the $85,000.00 payout, I would have $60,000.00 in equity and you would have at least $65,000.00 in equity. I find that to be fair.

The point of the email is that I don't want to hit the street essentially penniless for something that I didn't want to ahppen, i.e. the divorce. Prior to her announcing she had filed, I had hope and would have made some sacrifices. I had already made sacrifices. Now I want a fair deal. I initially asked for $100,000.00 because I didn't want to low-ball it.

Does $85,00.00 seem fair to you for having your life torn apart?

booka,

My advice to you in this particular case is to not throw out your best offer up front. If lawyers get involved (and they will), your position could easily deteriorate. I don't disagree about the house equity but I wouldn't lay the rest of your cards on the table. She doesn't need to know what you are planning to do, what mortgage rate you will get, where you plan to buy a house, etc. It is totally irrelevant.

What this looks like is a STBXH trying to be totally pragmatic in a completely irrational situation. I understand your POV. I can promise you it will hurt you. You have made up your mind to D. It is already a done deal and all you are waiting for is to sign the papers. Problem is it doesn't work that way. You need to be very secretive about your plans until the ink is dry.

Happy birthday Luna!

((((2much))))

Pio, how do you get through the day-to-day life with G when you don't want her to be there? I'm finding I don't really want WH to be here and I'm destroying what's left of us by this feeling.

I'm also very confused. He says he wants to work on the M, he acts (somewhat) like he wants to work on the M, but he hasn't put his ring back on, and he hasn't moved all of his stuff back in and when I asked him where such and such is, he replied, "at home" (his mom's). I said I thought this was your home, but he didn't hear me, or ignored me.

stef,

If you were to do something novel like, oh let's say distinguish between his words and actions and then only judge his progress by his actions, what conclusion do you reach?

Well, if I compared the 2, I would probably say he wants to work on the M. The only action that he hasn't taken to lead me to think otherwise is the wedding ring.

Stph, I think Todd's saying (correct me if I'm wrong Todd) that NONE of his actions show he wants to work on the marriage.

stph20,

I wish I had that answer. I think you had the key when you reminded me that we made a vow to our spouses that we would stand by them no matter what. But the other factor is that you have just said that you are destroying what is left by a feeling.

We, as BS's, begin this quest by trying to prove to WS that love is not a feeling - it is a commitment. We fight that good fight and, in some cases, win. Then we now have what it is we were struggling for and the adrenaline is gone. I fell into something like PTSD (I think). Then I started visiting my feelings. I didn't feel like I wanted the M. I didn't feel good about G being here, etc. So I became guilty of the same behavior that started G on her A - I started following my heart. But I think I believe this is wrong because otherwise I would have to accept G's A as a valid life choice - which it was not.

In short, we are trapped by our own logic. Sauce for the goose and all that. I had posted a long time ago that my greatest fear was that I might reach the point where G wanted the M and I didn't but I would be obligated to it. I think I got to that point. I have become very detached from M. Every day I think I might get home from work and find her bags packed by the front door and I am actually happy in that thought. But it isn't that easy.

For G's part, she is doing everything and anything to prove to me that she wants this M. I have whacked her pretty good (emotionally) a couple of times and she stands right up and takes it. That is part of what convinces me this is what she really wants.

There was something about G I loved once. I can find it again with time. I do think she is a good person. What I feel for her right now is pretty irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. I'm the only one that matters to - not her - not my children.

I have been made to suffer a lot by the A. You would think that ending the A would make that go away. It doesn't. So my problems are not quite over. I put up with a lot to get this far. Should I stop because I don't feel like it?

I'll get back to my favorite running analogies. I was once in a 5K race I hadn't trained for for many months. I could run 5K without any problem but I couldn't run it fast. I started the race at a good pace and decided I could always slow down. The race was marked of in kilometers instead of quarter miles so a) you have fewer points of reference b) you have to go much farther without a time check and c) I had never done the math in kilometers and I cannot add 2 plus 2 while running. Never been able to.

So I was confused, in doubt, in pain, etc. but I THOUGHT I was doing good from my confused mental math so kept pushing. I got to the 4K mark and new I could turn in a great time if I could just keep going. That last 1K was the absolute worst. I wanted to give up. I told myself there was nothing wrong with just stopping right there. Who cared if I finished the race. I didn't owe it to anybody. But I kept running. I turned in the best 5K time I had ever run and won the race in my category. I also passed out at the finish line.

Actually forget that analogy. I thought it was relevant but I see now that it has no bearing on anything.

You are very hurt by all this. In the beginning you put all that aside in your fight to save your M. Once that fight is over, you have a lot of time and you start to dwell on those things you denied yourself for so long (in my case over a year). It isn't pretty. But remember there was a reason you started on this journey. Rely on that. Don't rely on how you feel on that journey. Just remember that at one time you believed there was a goal out there worthy of trying to achieve. And run in the faith that you weren't wrong.

Hmm...let's try best two out of three...

stph20,

I will add that you are probably just seeing the beginning of the fog lifting. You are a long way (IMO) from recovery. You still need to be patient and you still need to listen to BigK.