174.7 lbs = 12.48 stone - as long as we are being precise.

Didn't they teach you that you cannot add significant figures in injuneerun school?

Sheesh! Aussies!

Okay I've just had a very stressful morning so I need to post this. Remeber that WW is off in Mexico with the DDs at SIL's house. This morning (her night) I decided to call. Well I got my calculations a bit off and had not factored in daylight savings time (which I didn't even remember that Mexico uses) so it was an hour later than I thought and they were all asleep.

So SIL answers and, when I realize I just woke her up, I ask her what time it is there. She tells me so I feel bad and hang up. Well WW calls me back five minutes later to tell me to call her (she does this so I pay for the call). But the number that registered in the caller ID was strange yet somehow familiar. Usually when we get land line calls from Mexico, it says "unknown number". But this showed a number 43-842-0406. This isn't a local number yet it isn't an international number either. And yet it seemed like a number I recognized. I thought maybe it was a Bahrain number but it didn't look quite like a Bahrain number either. Sometimes our GSM networks do things a little strangely. There was just something with this number that raised a red flag.

Well WW and I have lived for 3 years without cellphones due to infidelity (she used them a lot with OM) but I broke down about a month ago and got her one. I did that because I couldn't find her one day, assumed the worst and, well, almost got divorced. But her local number here will not work overseas. Last time we were in Bahrain, I bought prepaid GSM cards for each of us for emergencies but this GSM card will work anywhere in the world (at a price). Against my better judgment but since we are not returning on the same day, I sent her with the GSM card in case of emergency. But since we hardly ever use those GSM cards, I can't remember the number. And yet that number on the ID seemed so familiar.

So I decided to go home at lunch and look up the GSM number to see if there was a match. Even so, there was something odd about that number and I just knew it couldn't be her Bahrain GSM card. The more I thought about it, the more I was convinced that she had bought a new GSM card and was using it to contact OM. But, if she had, why would that number seem familiar? Must be a coincidence. I was seething on the way home. I was totally pissed. I went inside, blew past amazon woman and found the GSM numbers - NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!! I'm climbing the walls now. I'm done. I'm mad. I'm already planning what I'm going to say to WW. Custody, etc. Gawd I'm mad! But do I maybe want to still try to save the M? No. Forget it. Not any more. I'm done.

When I had called, she was asleep. She called me back so fast and was so groggy that she didn't even think about switching the GSM card back to the Bahrain one. I had caught her read-handed! This was no coincidence! God was trying to show me something! This was all the evidence she needed.

So WW called me from a GSM from a number that she should not have. And yet there was something odd about that number. I checked my watch, calculated the time correctly, factored in how long I should let them sleep vs. how long I could actually wait. Would they mind getting up at 4:00AM? Not my problem! I may call right now. No. I'll wait. A little. I was ready for confrontation! This was it. No more lies. No more false recovery. Divorce plain and simple.

Let's not forget that I found out about the A while WW was off on vacation with the DDs and later found she was secretly calling OM! Deja vu!!! Talk about PTSD! I'm reliving Dday all over again!

But what was it about that number? Didn't matter! This was it! I decided to wait until 4:00PM to call and I made lunch. I then thought about what I would say when she made some lame excuse about just needing a local GSM card in case of emergencies there. I could hear all her rationalizations. The gall of that woman!

Then it hit me. I didn't recognize that number yet I did. It wasn't the number I remembered - it was the prefix. Most times a call from Mexico shows up as "unknown number". I don't understand the phone system here but I am guessing that sometimes, for whatever reason, calls get rerouted through a local exchange. Because every time that we have gotten a 43-8xx-xxxx number before, it has always been either her sister or her father.

In fact, if she had called from her GSM, my caller ID would have registered the number. So she was not using her GSM - or another GSM. She was asleep at SIL's house and is not guilty of anything.

So I feel both better and like an idiot. I'm glad it was nighttime there or I might be on the road to divorce this second.

Thanks for letting me share this little infidelity moment with you. I feel calm now.

Amazing what lingering effects infidelity has. Priceless.

Glad we could be here for you! You did well.

One day I did that. Looked at our phone bill and saw a number I didn't recognize and was triggering like crazy. I actually called the number back and it turned out it was her friend and I felt like a complete moron. It is sad how little it takes to put me into a tailspin like that too. I know how you feel.

Well that's just great! I was feeling bad enough. Now I'm a complete moron! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

She tried to send me an email yesterday but bad phone connections prevented a connection. So BIL sent it this AM (their [your] AM) from his office so I just got it a few minutes ago (after all the drama). It was a really great email.

Gee...I guess I really am a complete moron. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Nahh, not a moron AT ALL. Maybe a borderline bonehead tho for thinking you are. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

You're not a moron, Pio, just a man dealing with the trauma of infidelity. It is, after all, the "gift" that keeps giving. Don't be so hard on yourself, your WW's behavior is what caused you to react the way you did and it was not an over reaction. It s..cks to feel that way, but it's not of your creation.

I missed the news about Todd. I hope he's managing.

2much, I'm glad to hear you're moving on and your kids are coping. I wish you the best, you deserve it.

Hey Nams!!!!! How are you?

Pio - it's all totally understandable. Shows how far you have to go in your recovery though. One day, you will give her the benefit of the doubt - when she has earned your trust back. You're not there yet. That isn't your fault.

{{{Pio}}}

Rock-Paper-Scissors

I started thinking last night about reality versus self-servicing illusion. First, I have to say that, in marriage at least, there is no one reality. H and W each have their own view of reality. Case in point was when I believed I had a very happy M and W had decided that it wasn’t. I was gobsmacked that we could have such diametrically opposed views of the same thing. So apparently we tend to twist our realities to fit our needs at any given time. Okay I do have a point.

Although we are all here by the grace of one root cause, we fall into very different categories. I am not going to consider other groups that would not routinely post on this board (for legitimate reasons – trolls don’t count nor do people here only to chat with friends). I’m posting this because of a comment by one particular poster (who I don’t particularly respect but that’s another issue) but I think the comment captures well the polarity of views among the groups.

Consider the three basic premises: 1) those who believe a WS is basically a good person who made a mistake but wishes to atone for it. 2) those who believe that any person will be a WS given the opportunity and 3) only "bad" people become wayward while "good" people never cheat.

Now where do we each fit into that scenario?

Group 1) BS’s who have recovered or are trying to recover their marriages. This will include people in Plan B. RWS’s (recovered/recovering) who accept their mistake and try to atone for it. Waywards trying to return from Plan B/D after recognizing the error of their ways. Group 1 is, I believe, the largest group. The people in this group believe that the WS knows the A was their own fault and they accept this full responsibility without trying to displace blame anywhere else. This does not mean that the BS believes that he/she did not contribute to problems in the M in some cases. But it does mean that an A is never considered an acceptable option. I believe it is very difficult for WS’s in this group. As humans, we don’t like to admit we are wrong. We always like to find someone else to blame. For a WS to fall into this group goes against their nature. Just to clarify, Plan D people may be Rocks as well. What I would define as a dicorced Rock is one who made a valiant effort to try to save the M.

Group 2) FWS’s who accept that what they did was wrong but with a caveat. They say that anyone could cheat given the right circumstances. Any person given the opportunity will cheat so they are simply a victim of circumstance. The important point here is that these WS’s on some level consider themselves victims. They have never quite taken full ownership of the A. This is more in line with human nature. This WS goes out of his/her way to NOT find fault in themself. They were seduced. BS didn’t give them enough attention. OP was a predator. Name it.

Group 3) This group includes BS’s who divorced without putting up a fight, BS’s who are in Plan B but have decided they don’t want WS back, new BS’s right after Dday in some cases, A WS in this category generally wouldn’t stay on the board except as a troll.

Now these three groups coexist on the board but each group is dangerous to one of the other groups and that, I believe, is why some seemingly simple arguments can explode in nuclear proportions. But why? The reason is that no matter which group you are in, one of the other groups is a direct threat to your belief system. And this threat must be extinguished.

I’m not very smart and I need to keep things on simple terms. I was thinking about this last night as I was falling asleep and it occurred to me that what we have here is a game of rock-paper-scissors.

For no particular reason, I’m going to call Group 1 Rock. Group 2 is Paper and group 3 is Scissors.

Scissors doesn’t like Rock. The reason is that Rock always represents doubt to Scissors that Scissors made the right decision. Scissors dumped WS because they knew WS would always be unfaithful yet Rock is empirical evidence that it may not be true. Maybe Scissors made a mistake. Maybe Scissors decided prematurely to end the M. Maybe Scissors might have been happier if Scissors had tried a bit harder. This self-doubt is killing Scissors. Surely Rock is wrong! Rock is an idiot! Rock as dumb as, well, a stone! Scissors will do everything and anything it can to try to cut Rock. Scissors may even chip off a few fragments of Rock but, in the end, Rock is still there. Some particularly sharp Scissors seem to go out of their way to try to chip Rock. So Scissors needs to be careful of Rock because it is always a threat to Scissors’ view of reality. The pieces of rock that do get chipped away by Scissors become through a process of alchemy not yet understood, Scissors themselves. Scissors likes this. This helps reinforce Scissors belief system. Safety in numbers. Some Scissors are blunt. Other Scissors are honed with surgical precision. If Rock dulls the Scissor, Scissor will run back to the whetstone. Broken Scissors generally are discarded off the board or become chatters.

For its part, Rock is deathly afraid of paper. Rock wants to believe that RWS will provide them a happy marriage. Rock wants to believe it was a mistake and no repeat A will take place. Rock knows that it weathered this storm but the next time would reduce it to rubble. So Rock needs to believe that the RWS is back on board the M. Paper represents a very serious problem for Rock. If Paper is real, Rock may be in trouble. Rock asks itself if it is possible that, given another opportunity, Paper will fold yet again faster than a Chinese contortionist. So the very existence of Paper is a direct threat to Rock. Rock will try to attack Paper in the hope of knocking holes in it but Paper is too strong for that. As far as Scissors goes, Rock thinks of Scissors as insignificant in Rock’s beliefs and goals.

Now Paper thinks of Rock as naïve. Stupid Rock deludes itself with this Pollyanna mentality. Paper is threatened by Rock because Paper doesn’t want to look inside and admit that Paper was wrong. Paper has pride (as does Scissors). Paper simply could not have been wrong! Paper must cover any attempt Rock makes to make Paper see otherwise. However Paper is definitely afraid of Scissors. Paper must defend it’s self-perception as a former wayward and one that will NOT cheat again. Scissors says otherwise. Scissors says that it is just a matter of time. Paper refuses to believe this. Scissors will cut Paper to shreds at any and every opportunity. Paper must avoid Scissors at all costs.

So this is helping me understand MB a little better. I finally have it broken down into something simple even I can understand – Rock, Paper, Scissors.

See you lost me when you started talking about scissors, paper, rock. I actually think I fall into group 1 and 2. I don't think they are separate.

Well, if you wish to carefully examine a thread that appeared yesterday, you might surprise yourself. But since you are a BS, you can't be in group 2. I'm referring to self-servicing illusion. How we can form our belief system to further our goal.

If you truly believed your wife would cave again at the first opportunity, I doubt you would choose to remain married to her. It would not make you feel safe.

I don't think that obviously. But we could all be susceptible to an affair under the right conditions. Hopefully MB gives us the tools so we make sure those planets never align.

Which thread?

I absolutely agree. The difference is group 1 accepts it, recognizes it as their mistake and takes preventative action. Group 2 regards the A as an inevitability and, if it happens, yet again it will not be their fault. The difference between the two is who is really responsible for the A. Group 2 deceives themselves to try to shed blame.

Actually I think I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. I'm not sitting here believe she is calling OM with no accountability. I do believe she is NOT contacting him.

And, BTW, no hugs between men on TKO. You know the rules. We only do shoulder pats.

{{{BigK

Darn - I forgot that bit.

{{{Pio

OK I agree about the 3 groups. You just did a crappy job of explaining it and you lost me with the scissors paper rock thing.

But tell me what you REALLY think. Don't hold back.

No. What I'm saying is that there is a bit of a dance going on here at MB at times. Three basic groups with each attacking one but not the other. Each group has a continual need to reinforce it's belief system.

Scissors don't bother me. Paper scares me. It scares me because, if their view of things is true, I'm wasting my time trying to recover my M. Might as well divorce and become a Scissor.

Hmmm …

Please don’t get po’d Pio, but your algorithm is broken.

By your legend, I am a Scissors (divorced F-BS).

For several years as a Scissors I have been eagerly supporting, in a positive & respectful manner, fellow BS who happen to be in recovery, or not, and F-WS (Rock & Paper). For empirical evidence, please feel free to data mine my posts via the search engine.

Some of those Rocks & Papers are very dear friends of mine, a subset of whom I have met in real life.

Now I know the game Rock, Scissors, Paper doesn’t allow for a fourth element (exceptions), so I guess its back to the drawing board for YOU.


LMAO You two are a couple of nut balls. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Sorry but no. You can still be a divorced Rock. Plan D is just an extended Plan B. It all depends on what your view of the WS is. Is the WS a good person gone bad or a bad person uncovered? You also may have one view of your specific WS but a kinder view of WS's in general. That would still be a rock.

Sure it's easy for you to sit back and throw rocks...er...stones at my theory. At least I'm putting something out there.

I try not to categorize anyone. There are bad and good in all, regardless of what hat they have on.


LOL Please tell Evanka Trumph that. I'm sure her attorney would be interested as well. Not to mention a few bazillion other divorced folks.

I did enjoy reading it, Pio. But can't help but see the holes.

You get an E for entertainment.

Who was Ivanka Trump married to? I don't get much news here.