More information on the weekend.

Apparently, WH's mother was originally going to go with him for the weekend, but backed out. BIL told me that WH really didn't want to go alone.

So, I'm wondering, did he ask me because he knew that I would drop everything to go with him? Would he use me that coldly, without regard for my feelings? He did tell me not to get too excited about the weekend - he just wanted to talk.

I'm afraid that the answer to my question above is yes. As I have been for the past year, I am his backup plan. Good ole' Lizzie - there when all else fails.

I forgot to mention that the very first thing I saw when I opened his car door was a tube of lipstick. I picked it up and handed it to him and said "you lost something" and then just changed the subject. I guess that was an omen!

I made the appointment for him with Steve, but it's not until Sept. 8. WH can only do first thing Friday morning. I will go through with it, but I really feel like all of this is just prolonging the inevitable.

My WH is definitely not the person he used to be.

At one point during our weekend conversation he told me that in his heart, he doesn't feel like my husband anymore. I told him that was probably because he wasn't acting like my husband, because my husband wouldn't be carrying on with other women.

Still, the head and heart are at opposite poles.

On a brighter note, I have decided to start LIVING my life again - my timeline was my birthday. I went kayaking with a friend for 6 hours on Tuesday and had a blast. Took the boys to a county fair last night and I an seeing a play with my daughter tonight.

I just wish this empty spot in my heart would stop hurting so much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

(((((((((((((((((lizzie)))))))))))))))))))

HI, I'm so sorry that you have that empty spot in your heart. I think you are right about starting to live YOUR life again...I would hate to see all your hard work go up in smoke...just be the best you that you can possible be...reagrdless of WH, you still have to do all you can for YOU...

How are your kids handling things? Has it been any easier on them? I can feel how difficult it has been for you. Are you all leaning on each other right now? Do you feel you've got some great support?

I'm concerned about you and I want to make sure that you remember one day at a time...one day, lizzie...things can change so fast...

I don't think that all hope is lost...I do think that WH is lost...

You are doing a wonderful job, lizzie, of holding your head high...remember this is not about YOU...this is about him...there is nothing wrong with you! I'm sorry that you are feeling so much pain right now...

Focus on yourself, sweetie, you're great...a wonderful person with a wonderful heart...please don't harden it...you are amazing, unique, and fasinating...hold true to that!

One day at a time! One day!

(((Rin)))
Thanks so much.

WH IS lost - and there is nothing I can do about it.

Don't see much posted here about rebound affairs. Usually there is one OW and the M either recovers or ends in D.

WH is running - from so many things. It is useless for me to chase, so I am stopping.

Boys are still struggling. They were uspet with me for going with WH for the W/E, and maybe even more upset when I didn't come home and announce a rconciliation - even though I told them we were just going to talk.

WH wants a child of his OWN??? When he walked away from 2 boys that loved him and considered him dad? Two boys that he had raised for 8 years. So much of what is good in WH has become a part of these two boys.

WH repeating the same scenario that he lived through - his stepfather cheated on his mother when WH was only 18 and walked away without ever looking back.

One day at a time Rin. That's all I can handle.

here's another thing:

My MIL talked to my WH when we got back. WH told her that I wanted a divorce.

Not sure why he is saying that. I can't believe that is what he heard or what he believes.

I am going to email him soon with his appt. time with Steve Harley.

Wondering how I should word the email and if I should address the remark he made to his mother.

I will await all of your wise advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Perhap...of course, we're not suppose to be doing this, but perhap it was to cover his aSSSets...to make him look like the good guy in mom's eyes...

I would just be brief and to the point...perhaps with a drive-by of still hoping to save the M.

Have you ask him if he sees that pattern?

I will await all of your wise advice.

I suppose that means we are waiting for WAT? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think it either will work, or it won't work.

The longer I hear all the things he does, the less I think he would be good for you.

Hmmm, I suppose I am trying to say that more and more I don't think he is good enough for you these days.

It sounds like he is projecting his own feelings on to you - when he tells MIL you want a D.

Either he is lying on purpose, or his mind skews things that badly based on his own feelings. Neither one is good.


It has been said that if you want to know someone's true feelings, watch their actions. People often say one thing, but do another.

He says he's not sure?

Match that up with his actions over time. Watch him for a month or two, that should be long enough.

AS you know, people can make mistakes - even for a few weeks running, but long term trends are a pretty good indicator.

Sorry for the pain, wish it were different.

SS

SS - you were one of the wise people I hoped would show up (even though I didn't bring back a pickle for you)LOL!!!

I keep basing my thoughts on the 8 year trend of our marriage.

However, this latest trend has been pretty consistent for the past year or so.

I think it's a combination of him projecting his feelings on me and a skewing of the facts.

What I believe - and this is a DJ - is that WH wants to remain married to me, but act as if he is single, for whatever reason.

He is looking for what he already had, while running away from the mess he's made.

I too, am beginning to think he is not the one for me.

Hi Lizzie,

I’m usually a lurker, but I thought I’d throw in my $ 0.02.

You’ve told WH you won’t file right? Haven’t you also said that you’ll love him forever, and always be there as a soft landing spot for him? – He’s exploiting this.

What it looks like to me is every X amount of time WH tests to make sure you’re still available to him and that he can still get the ‘full meal deal’ (SF, relationship talk, reconfirmation that you’re still committed to him).

Then, he goes off into fence sitting land for X amount of time again until you escalate things or give another deadline. His response to which seems to be to drop everything, try to arrange another ‘full meal deal’ with you and then start the process over.

Whatever works out, you’re an impressive lady.

Good luck,

YS

Your Shoes,

Thanks for the perspective. That was just pointed out to me by my BIL. WH is doing all he can to keep me hanging on and as someone's sig line states - we believe easily what we hope for earnestly. But, I am running out of steam and I find my love bank is fluctuating wildly.

I have scheduled an appointment with Steve Harley for 9-6. It is 2 days before my WH is supposed to call him to hear what Steve has to say. After that, I imagine that Steve will determine what (if any) plan I should be in and what my next move will be. I am working on my list of questions for him.

Thanks for coming out of your lurking mode to post to me. I always appreciate the input.

I don't know what's in his head - you may have more of an idea about that. I suspect it doesn't matter.

If a person won't commit, and they run off to be with others, does it matter what the reason is?

I often cringe when I read posters say things like "I'll always love you." or "I will always be here for you."

I might love them too - like I try to love my enemies, but ROMANTIC LOVE?

No way !!

Marriage is supposed to be a partnership. A full partnership, not a limited partnership, nor is one partner supposed to be a "silent partner."

A dynamic, changing, growing thing, but a beautiful, wonderful thing too.

I'll be interested in seeing what Steve says.

I'm more interested in what your H does. If you keep giving him chances, he will loose respect for you, as you are loosing it for him. You can't love, honor, and be full partners with someone you don't respect.

You can't love, (romantic love) honor, and be full partners with someone you don't trust.

Personally, I can't believe (well, I do believe it, but is he really that dense?) he won't respond to your letters. I have been rooting for him, hoping he will "get it" but I'm, having a hard time voting for him lately.

I realize we just think about this, but you live it. I am sorry he hasn't responded and helped.

Keep making plans, keep doing things. Remember people care about you. WAT is right, you are a classy lady. Always act like it, it will count for a lot.

Concentrate on the good in your life - the bad will just have to get along on it's own. Don't give it much air time.

SS

Yesterday was my birthday.

No word from WH. Not that I had any expectations, but it still hurts.

I'm kind of wallowing. Wondering what I am doing.

All of WH's actions pull him further and further away from me and the boys. All of his choices say to me that he does not value me or them, that he does not feel that what we had is worth repairing, that a relationship with anyone else is preferable to what we had together. OW #1 - married and he was in love with her and now OW#2 - he's in love again.

At least that is how I am interpreting his actions.

So, why have I been holding on?

I am thinking that WH's phone call with Steve Harley will be a waste of time as he is again firmly in fogland.

I am feeling like this is pointless, hopeless, and futile.

And I'm 46. I thought I was finally at a place in my life that was secure. I knew who I was going to grow old with and what my future held. I guess you never really know.

I wish someone would take my damned rose colored glasses away. I have always been an optomist, seeing the glass as half full, giving people the benefit of the doubt, hoping and believing in others even when the evidence against them has been overwhelming .

I think I might be doing that here.

Hi Liz - sorry I missed your birthday.

Have a pickle and a beer!

So, he told his Mom you wanted a divorce.

Dork.

But, perhaps he spoke just a wee bit too soon.

I think you ought to file.

You gave him an ultimatum of sorts a few weeks back, right? Chit or get off the pot.

To be blunt, not only is he still on the pot, but he's still full of chit to the point of it overflowing out of his mouth. And you're there with all the Charmin he needs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

File and REALLY start moving on - right after his session with Steve goes no where.

Not that I think you should do this as a manipulation strategy, but you know what he'll do - same thing he did when you had your "date". Too late. If you let it, the same pattern will repeat.

He's a classic fence sitter and too cowardly to file himself. Indecision is the key to his flexibility.

I think you've done all you need to to go forward without guilt. His session with Steve may be the icing on the cake. If Steve can't do it, I'll say no one can. Maybe that can be your ticket to a guiltless filing. - or if he backs out and doesn't talk to him at all.

Of course, only you can determine your "tests" for a guiltless divorce - but I highly recommend this to be your goal if reconciliation isn't in the cards.

Although I didn't have to file - I met my criteria for a guiltless divorce and it worked for me. You're 46 - I met the love of my life at 48, four years ago on Sept. 8. Do not discount similar things happening for you.

JMHO

WAT

Happy Bday, Lizzie...a day late and a dollar short...that's me...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm with the belief police...so, pull over.

"All of WH's actions pull him further and further away from me and the boys. All of his choices say to me that he does not value me or them, that he does not feel that what we had is worth repairing, that a relationship with anyone else is preferable to what we had together. OW #1 - married and he was in love with her and now OW#2 - he's in love again."

Choose to believe your WH isn't valuing was is priceless...to believe he is not attempting to repair what is essential...and that he chooses to pursue fantasy in place of reality...for whatever are his reasons...his choice.

Those are truths from his actions...not DJs which hurt you and your children...

"At least that is how I am interpreting his actions"

I'm asking you to interpret them differently...not returning DJ for DJs (his fence sitting contains DJs in how his marriage was, is and will be)...

"So, why have I been holding on?

"I am thinking that WH's phone call with Steve Harley will be a waste of time as he is again firmly in fogland."

If you aren't open to what may be, then you are allowing yourself to be like your WH. I want you to choose differently. Being open doesn't mean hinging all your hopes on a single event...it means, be open.

"I am feeling like this is pointless, hopeless, and futile." Are you mixing actions with people again? You can feel any action you take may be pointless, hopeless or futile, if you choose...and you will not be pointless, hopeless or futile. I know you know this. You helped me out by handing me back what I knew in one area when I couldn't see it in another area in my life.

"And I'm 46. I thought I was finally at a place in my life that was secure. I knew who I was going to grow old with and what my future held. I guess you never really know."

You are secure in your life. You are your life. You know more than ever before...you're going to grow old with yourself, you always were...and you don't know that you won't grow old with WH...not for a fact...future hasn't arrived and YOU aren't old yet...and the belief that you ever knew what your future held was false...and you know that...you're just knowing it again.

I'm in recovery and don't know what the future holds. That's why I don't dwell there.

"I wish someone would take my damned rose colored glasses away. I have always been an optomist, seeing the glass as half full, giving people the benefit of the doubt, hoping and believing in others even when the evidence against them has been overwhelming."

I believe there is strength in optimism--but like anything, taken to an extreme, it's harmful. You know by all your own changes how much people can change...not that they will. Know that accept anything can happen...and that you can't make it happen for them...only for yourself. You can believe in others' power to change...because they have it, as much as you do...that's believing in them respectfully. Believing they will change would be fantasy, not respectful. You're just open to it.

Evidence? Do you gather evidence to say you're whole and complete? Do you use it to judge others defective or not? Evidence is something I think we're taught as the only sane way to determine reality...like adding judgment as a necessary ingredient when we know it's not...a flavoring, or for appearance. Knowing your WH is wayward because of his actions is truth. Judging why or what will it take to get him out of the fog isn't reality...that's our filter.

I think that knowing what we don't know is as important as knowing what we do know...and it helps to have somebody with our hearts in mind, handing us back the difference.

LA

Happy Birthday !

It's a wish for the coming year, not just for a day.

I feel the hurt again. The sorrow, the longing.

Sorry yet again.

Cheer up.
The alternative is not very attractive at all.

I hear lots of people say "have a nice day."
One man said "make it a good day."
I think he may have been on to something. You may have to MAKE it good, despite your feelings.

Meanwhile the sun is up, the birds are singing, and there's a song in your heart if you'll play it.

Turn the music on.
Dance to it. Let it take you.

SS

WAT, LA, and SS,

Thanks for all of your words of encouragement.

Today seems to be a little better, a little brighter.

I am not wallowing.

LA, thanks for handing all of that back to me. In my head, I am still making judgements and determinations, trying to predict and control. So hard to let go. So hard to remain open.

SS - how did you know I like to dance? I often crank up the music and dance around. It makes my boys crazy!!! They run and hide when they hear the disco music start up (Now I'm really dating myself!). But I did just as you suggested and it really helped. Make it a good day. I like that. The choice really is mine. I tell that to my kids all of the time. You can't change a situation, but you can change the attitude that you have towards it. I should practice what I preach.

WAT - love the Charmin analogy! I'm giving up my supply. Being open does not mean being a doormat. I am definitely seeing a pattern.

I think I might be getting somewhere.

Keep up the prayers.

Hope all day is "UP".


SS

Played pool last night. Saw WH's best friend there (his in-laws own the bar).

Usually we just make small talk, but last night he wanted to talk.

Apparently WH is still seeing OW#1. He doesn't believe that there is a #2. Believes that WH is telling people that to protect his fantasy with OW.

In retrospect, that makes sense. It would explain his pulling away 2 weeks into false recovery. It would explain why he had nobody to go with him to his stepmother's house. It would explain why he still holes up in his cave.

His best friend told me that WH is "the ultimate cake-eater". Pretty much he told me what WAT tells me. File for divorce. Says WH is a lost cause.

So, I am digesting this information.

What bothers me here is that apparently my BIL and SIL also know this information, but haven't told me. ?????

THat hurts.

((((((((((Lizzie))))))))))

I'm so sorry that you are hurting from this information and thinking that BIL and SIL are intentional not telling you what WH's doing.

I'm sure that they have their our reasons for not mentioning it whether it is to protect you or maybe trying hard to make themselves feel like their aren't in the middle of things.

I understand that you have a lot to process but I thinking that a formal PLAN B with letter included. Right now, WH is cake eating partly because he can. I think it would be in your best interest if you put a stop to it. Go completely dark.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I do know that you are alot stronger than you were and seem very level headed. I'm sure that you will make the best decision fro your and your boys!

As it should.

Just another flavor of betrayal.

WAT

I think I have finally reached a decision.

Ever since that weekend away with WH, I have felt like too much time has passed.

What love remains in my love bank is for someone who no longer exists - maybe he never really did. Maybe I just saw what I wanted to see.

The information the other night just seemed to be the thing that tipped the scales for me.

I am going to file for D. I have given this a lot of thought and I feel like my head and my heart are finally on the same page. I guess I thought that I had to wait until I didn't love WH in order to file, but that is unrealistic. There will probably always be a little piece of me that will love him (the way he used to be) and what we had.

I am no longer willing to accept the situation. I am no longer willing to hold on.

I have been so caught up in what his A has done to my marriage that I have failed to really look at his actions as far as the boys are concerned. He walked away from them without so much as a backwards glance. They each got a card on their birthday, but other than that - no contact.

Instead of listening to his words, I am listening to his actions. You all know what they have been.

I feel like I am in a better place because of MB. I feel like I have said and done everything that I can. Filing for D is for me, not for him. I've done plan A, Plan B, and everything in between. I thought that I would not be the one to file, that I would "make" him do it - but he won't. He likes things just the way they are. I don't.

I have an appt. with Steve Harley on Wednesday. WH is supposed to call him on Friday, but I am going to cancel. That money can be better spent elsewhere.