I agree with NC. 100% But I keep pounding on the same issue because an A is not about the OP! So removing the OP is not removing the Bar completely.

Its about the FWS method of dealing with unhappiness in a relationship / personal insatisfaction from unbalanced need for external approval. Unless this is addressed the FWS is still at risk.

Ahuman, I certainly agree that if the relationship makes you break your moral code, it is toxic and it is about personal issues. But I do think that healthy relationships, at the start anyway, are about how the person makes you feel about you but also about how you make them feel about them. Am I making sense? Probably not.

You mentioned the guilt and unhappiness you felt during the A. I have never been more miserable in my life than during the A, for those reasons. A lot of how I felt then has been dulled by time (it was late 2002 that it all ended) but thank you for reminding me (no sarcasm intended AT ALL). I have a feeling that is how I let the recent situation develop, I'd forgotten how toxic it all was.

Anyway, I'm feeling excited and pleased about FINALLY learning how to deal with my issues (selfishness and immaturity are the first two to spring to mind) and making Rob happy. We have free counselling at the university and my Dr recommended it when I saw her yesterday. She actually repeated EVERYTHING that everyone has said here. I said "that's what everyone has been saying" then I blushed and said "er, people on the message board I go on."

Then she's been incredible successful at faking me out, darn it, I'm recovered already, I'm such a dolt!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You are correct in a way, WE actually worked on this project TOGETHER to see if we could get YOU to hear what we thought just maybe YOU needed to hear. We were not sure whether we were right about the concept, right about you needing it/wanting it or whether WE were missing something we needed to process so WE thought it presented us the perfect opportunity to pose the question...hence the discussion.

We also hoped to bust up a little of the "wayward spouse under the microscope" type scrutiny around here a bit. With recent events it's seems a little worse. Waywards CAN or CAN TRY to make valid, honest, helpful points around here too. A repentent and forgiven former wayward spouse is no different than you and I, unless, of course, they are truly foggy (and really ANYONE can be foggy-statistically Dr. Harley says BS's are more likely to have the next affair anyway, NOT ME, I married my trophy wife the first time..she DOES like to hear that. lol).

Mr. Wondering

Or the supermarket checkout line. I also have a feeling that if contact had been deliberate or by e-mail my guard would have gone up immediately. I was caught on the back foot but THAT IS NO EXCUSE.

Enough about me. That's something I'm learning (huge sighs of relief from everyone).

Dear old 2oak. To misquote his sig line. "NC is NC is NC. What part of that don't you understand."

I agree that part of even healthy relationships are about how someone makes you feel about you (I had a friend that used to laugh at all my jokes, but I thought I was funny....until I realized she just likes to laugh!), but they are not MOTIVATED by that.

I don't know your story, but if you were to retrace a recent contact you may find that the desire was there pre-contact and due to SOMETHING other than OP. Something in you that you were seeking to fill-up.

THAT is the part to be addressed HEAD ON, in order to be released. Its not just about creating a healthy M or NC. Its about figuring out what makes you tick. IMHO.

Cheers.

AGREE! And the same with a drunk. It is much, much more than than just removing the drink. It also involves addressing the underlying living problem.

[color:"red"]EGG ZAK LEE [/color]



[color:"red"] yeppers
[/color]

[color:"blue"] Quoting my husband

"Happy people don't have affairs. And affairs don't make people happy." [/color]

[color:"purple"] It's a lose / lose proposition [/color]

and another thing my H said


[color:"blue"]" At first is was exciting. Later, it was sheer terror intermixed with self loathing." [/color]


[color:"red"]Pep [/color]

My DD going to Europe. I was distraught at the idea of her being away in a not very safe world but trying not to show it to her. I wanted her to be looking forward to it as she should be. She and I are very, very close, great friends and I knew I was going to miss her horribly. The day after she left my workmate said "they've gone now I suppose" and I burst into real sobbing tears. As it happens, knowing they are having a wonderful time and being in touch with her most days, I'm fine with it now.

You probably didn't want to know all that. You probably meant me to keep it to myself and work on it privately. Sorry.

I traveled the big bad world starting at age 20 ... I went into war zones ... flew into storms ... rode in jeepneys ... ate whatever the locals ate ...

Europe is for sissies !

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I learned how to be strong & to be resourceful & how to be wary too....

she'll be fine

she will have stories to tell <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am confused a bit.

Though sorry to hear your daughter has moved away that is not easy.

Are you referencing this because it has put you in a vulnerable emotional state, which in turn impacted NC?

This is a discussion board. If we dont discuss, it doesnt exist.

That was an awesome point!





Sounds like math to me! Obviously I am somewhat sarcastic about this. Who knows maybe some sarcasm is normal 2.15 years post d-day.



Mrs W made good points, however she was sounding too much like KiwiJ and Suzet and I got triggered by her words.



For the record I don’t believe my wife loved OM, however, the brain chemistry was there. To love someone does not mean throwing that person under the bus like a used rag in one instant post d-day. So yes, I know it was not the real stuff.


Furthermore, as per the suggestion of JL I actually trust that my wife will never contact OM on her own ever again. It is hard for me to conceive that she may do that on her won. I guess, I always see the positive side of all people.


Mrs W writes for Mr W and vice versa. Been there done that-----it works!!! But, we will never know if they could have written a couple of different passages without the scrutiny of one another.

Ahuman, I meant that everyone is sick about hearing about me, me, me from me. NC wasn't broken deliberately by either the OM or me but what followed was deliberate and I was in vulnerable emotional state viz. my DD leaving. I hasten to add she's coming back at the end of the year. Good grief, can you imagine the mess I'd be in if she was going for good.

Heck, I'll discuss anything till the cows come home. LOL

Pep, I know that NOW, but it seemed like an awfully big adventure just before she went. When I'll REALLY start to worry is when they have 2 months in the States. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Stanley, I don't believe for a moment that Mr and Mrs W write for each other. I think a united front from them is AWESOME and shows how far in recovery they are.

Ga night all.

Stanley...

Clearly, you post exactly what you think and feel here, regardless of how it will affect your wife...I will tell you this, you are right that I consider Mr. W in my posts, in fact, I consider him in everything I do now-I most certainly wouldn't post something I KNEW would be a lovebuster for him-I would definitely protect him from that, as I should...I try not to lovebust him at home either, but I'm not perfect, so sometimes I do...As I mentioned earlier, I do not process things on this board...I process with Mr. W and then I post about some of those things...to do otherwise does not make sense to me...

See, we are REALLY open with each other now...I mean really-nothing is off limits-our relationship is a safe environment that we both feel comfortable sharing in...I don't understand the motivation that anyone would have to post LIES trying to fool their spouse into believing that they were in love with them-That would cheat both of us, and I very much like the new intimate us...It's a wonderful feeling to know that someone knows everything about you and loves ALL that is you...And, besides, Mr. W would know...There would be a disconnect between us-yeah, we know how to recognize that BIGTIME now...We are much more in tune with each other, so he or I would know if the other were to be posting lies-our relationship would not be what it is...we have a much keener awareness now about us, so we'd know...

Further, Stanley, if I didn't want to be in my marriage, nothing would stop me from leaving...Mr. W's MAIN requirement for being with me, is that I also want to be with him (and that is how I feel too)...This isn't a prison, if he didn't want to be with me, clearly, he had a VERY valid out...He is still here...I am still here...Because it's where we both want to be...Because it's where we both belong...Infer whatever you wish, our happiness doesn't depend on what you believe, however, YOUR happiness DOES very much depend on what you believe...

Best,

Mrs. W

P.S. To be clear, I also don't post on a public forum to blow sunshine up Mr. W's heiney...That would simply be much easier to do here at home if that was my intent...KWIM?

FYI Stanley

I don't write anything on MB I would not wish to read aloud to my husband...

I do that out of respect for him & our relationship

it's part of good marital behavior

Pep

Mrs W:

I detect a subtle contradiction. If the two of you are brutally honest and open with each other past D-day some love busting is natural.

My love busting simply meant I had anger and said what I needed to say about the A. Never used profanity, but said everything I had to say until there was no more.

It turns out my wife's love bank was not empty so I had the luxury to love bust (or should I say express my frustration about the affair*)


Was Mr W angry at you?

*for the purpose of this post love buster means words that express anger about the affair.

Thank you Jen, I really appreciate that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


LOL...Stanley, yes, of course, we consider each other in ALL that we do...But I can assure you that we are both very much free thinkers, which is why conversation for us is AWESOME...Neither one of us scrutinizes the other's posts...AGAIN, WE DON'T POST THINGS UNLESS WE HAVE PROCESSED IT TOGETHER!!! I'm pretty certain that is how we are supposed to do things...Regardless, it's what we do, and we both like it, and YES, it does work wonderfully...

Mrs. W

P.S. Signing out for the evening, as we are going to a PARTY, and I must get ready...YAY!!! G'night All!

Last post for tonight...PROMISE...lol...

Short Version for now Stanley...Mr. W has NO TEMPER WHATSOEVER...He has NEVER, and I mean NEVER, EVER yelled in his entire life...Yeah, that is quite amazing to me too, but it is the absolute God's honest truth...

He was VERY hurt...But no, he did not lovebust me about the affair...He listened to it all...patiently and lovingly...Stanley, I don't know how he did that, I describe it as AMAZING GRACE...and I am awed by him...

Mrs. W

Mrs W, are you sure that Mr W isn't my H. They sound REMARKABLY similar. Rob has never raised his voice in anger to me once. He yelled at our DS once when DS was about 14 and it's gone down in the annals of our family history as "the day Dad lost it".

Rob also did the same as Mr W. Listened patiently but with so much hurt it broke my heart. He has never ONCE thrown back anything in my face but he has also made his disappointment and hurt very clear.

It IS awe inspiring, Mrs W. They are real "men" in the true sense of the word.

And, speaking of united fronts, that was what I always loved about our marriage - it was him and I against the world. That, to a certain extent, has now gone but I'm getting that back if it's the last thing I do.

Well, I would never questioned the manhood of a man that never shows anger. In fact, I also admire that quality. However, lets not forget that the repression of anger at the right moment may also be unhealthy. Some expression of anger at the appropriate time is sometimes needed. However, this may be a moot point. The predominant sensation post d-day is pain and sadness.

However, I am a lot like Bob Pure in me and I will gladly beat the crap of OM if he ever dares to get close to me or my wife. Is that anger?








Mrs. W, my wife and I did MB in real time. Whatever was posted came out independently. Sometimes I was away in a conference and she was home. On other days I was in the loft computer posting away and she was in the kitchen computer. Any dilemma we had in early recovery was posted in real time and solved on the board. Whatever we posted was not POJA. I suspect we had a different approach to this issue.

I apologize again if I appear blunt, but this is how I write 99% of the time.

BTW, I was once accused by many in the recovery board of having too much of a perfect recovery . And then I had flashback to d-day on my two year anniversary. I suspect I was repressing some of my discontent for a long time and I finally exploded. What I am trying to say is that we are different and please understand that your rationalization regarding your local college team is just that--------la la land. The best conference in the country is the ACC.