Pep, the term preaching from the pulpit came after you implied you wanted to retire. So I must have said something else that offended you. In any event I apologize if you feel I wanted to stop the conversation because it is not going my way. On the contrary, I want to continue.

BP:

All acts occur within a set of circumstances. An act in itself has no morality. What determines the morality of a given act is the circumstance.

For example killing in self-defense may be acceptable if one is truly defending one’s life.

Killing for sport is murder.

Same act---different circumstance.

Ahuman: I will cite the words of the famous philosopher Pep-----"You lost me"

Morality is based upon a thought not an action. Right or wrong comes from the thought...

"Killing for sport is murder"... a man out hunting in the field sees movement, believes it's his prey...aims and fires. He kills another man... immoral? Not if he thought the movement was a deer. (although still not a great sport). But if he spied the movement, saw it was a man, and shot anyway...that is immoral. The same circumstances, but the thought is different. I guess you might say that because the hunter knows it is a man in the 2nd example, then the circumstances are different... but the only difference is the knowledge and thought... not the action.

Shaden

Many philosophers would also agree that there are certain truths (values) that encompass all of life... whether the person is Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, etc..

These values or morals will always remain true regardless of the circumstances.

Shaden

Stanley,

Can you give us an update on Myrta? How is she doing? Any more threats of contact by OM? How's her mom? When is Myrta coming home?

KJ

Morality: a system of social codes designed to produce a higher probability of “good” responses…good meaning those responses that encourage individual survival and survival of the group (which is needed to ensure survival of the individual).

Moral action leads to higher probability of survival for the group/individual, and immoral action to lower probability of survival of the group/ individual.

Take your murder / death example.

Moral action—self defense. Increased probability of surviving if you kill NOT to be killed.

Immoral action—murder. If everyone murders,there will be more deaths which increase the likelihood that YOU TOO will die.

Take another example:

Fidelity. By staying with the mate you select, there is an increased probability in survival of offspring (and in assuring that the offspring you raise, are in fact YOURS), because of an increase in family unit security, which is necessary to raise offspring. This is even true in the polygamy context--fidelity being assured only by the women.

Infidelity leads to a counter result. Decrease likelihood that offspring are yours, decreased likelihood you would care for offspring, and so on.

So my point was that there is a “right” way and “wrong” way, depending on what sort of outcome a person is seeking.
Action (moral)--reaction (increased probability of survival). Cause--effect.


Of course morality does not exist idependent of circumstances. NOTHING exists (not even the notion of NOTHING) outside of circumtstances. What is nothing, unless compared to something?

Still lost?

KJ:

Thanks for asking. Myrta is flying home tonight; I will pick her up at Dulles around 10 PM.

Since the last visit by OM last Monday there have been no more incidents. As you know Myrta was able to get away from the house of her mom as he was arriving. She has been staying with my mother and everything seems OK.

Regarding issues of self-esteem:

I wanted to say a few words to you about that.

My wife always had low self-esteem and I noted she needed lots of admiration. Initially I thought self-esteem issues could be cured with achieving success. However, I now realize that people with a great deal of success can have serious self-esteem issues. By the same token folks that are less talented and accomplished can have very good self-esteem.

The only thing that makes sense to me regarding self-esteem is that people that feel unworthy tend to have a discrepancy in how they feel and what they project to the world. As long as your inner self is not congruent with your outer shell you have instability. Eventually you need to seek outside help to validate who you are. This is something you cannot do on your own because you are pretending to be something else.

Ahuman:

I agree!

BTW, in the booklet “Mere Christianity” CS Lewis wrote about the issue of certain moral principles that are present in virtually all societies thru world history. There are some things that are universal in terms of morality despite the differences in culture. He used this as the platform to try to prove the existence if a God.

Stanley,

I agree 100% with your views on self-esteem. I admit, I've never sought outside help for this issue. I need to.

Glad to hear Myrta is coming home. Does she post here? I'd love to talk with her.

I'm curious about your occupation. I have this tendency to try to put people on this forum into classifications (but not judging them, very different to me). My brother has his PhD in Space Studies. His intellect and verbal communication skills are so similar to yours. If I had to guess, I'd say you are in some type of career that needs constant analytical thought processes. i.e. scientist (that's my brothers official job title), physician, cognitive therapist, product analysis, marketing analysis, computer programming. If you don't mind entertaining me here, I'd love to know what you do for a living. If not, that's fine too.

Have a great weekend!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

KJ

KJ:



The key point is that no one can raise your self-esteem, but you. The most efficient way is to be congruent at al times. By the way, if you look up the definition of integrity it will say something like being “whole”. If you work at having a similar inner and outer shell you are congruent and whole. It does not matter whether you are a lawyer or a house painter, thin or obese. Congruency can always be achieved.






Myrta got back last night. I really missed her despite the short duration of her trip. We had a great reunion later that night.

Unfortunately OM showed up as she was in the driveway getting ready to go to the airport, so there was visual contact. Myrta’s entire family was there, nevertheless OM came to them. Myrta was in shock---this man is really obsessed-----She did her best not to make any eye contact. After getting off the car OM realized the awkwardness of the situation and the fact that there was no warmth in my wife’s eyes. He left very quickly. I don’t think this had a negative impression on my wife----so I am happy. I think my wife did quite well and I am proud of her.




I am a physician, but I do not do any clinical medicine right now other than help with the planning of radiotherapy of cancer patients. Otherwise, I spend many hours in a dark room reading PET scans----not very glamorous. I suspect , I am older than you-----I have been married for 33 years.

Thanks for asking KJ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />